counseling/therapy for elderly parent??

[Beach Runner]

well some/most people of that generation might be respectful...but not my mother, she is still with it enough to react horribly to something like that. she has always been a control freak in the first degree. I do not know how I am going to get power of attorney, it wont happen without a horrible meltdown from her.
thats why I have to wonder if she is really as feeble as she likes to pretend...I think sometimes she has "dementia" on demand -when she needs it...

You will just have to deal with the meltdown. Just don't make a big deal about signing the papers. Tell them that it will protect their assets and health if they were to get ill (and this is true). If they decline, ask them to sign similar legal and medical power of attorney papers for you (which you don't have with you at the moment -- never present these papers to them ) and explain that if you get ill, you'd need someone to take care of your interests. That will seal the deal. They'll sign.

"Dementia on demand" -- LOL -- we didn't know what to call it before we were educated about dementia, but that's essentially what hubby used to say about Mom. If acting up helped her cause (like the fake chest pains), she'd use her "dementia on demand" to shut us down ("Oh, you are upsetting me. Are you trying to kill me? I am having chest pains."). I'm telling you, that's part of the first stages of dementia.

 

[Rudyjohn]

I just came back online and see that BR has told you what I was about to tell you and that's the power of attorney. You need to get a Durable power of attorney and you need to do it asap before your mother is deemed psychologically incompetent. Try to find an attorney who specializes in elder law (but any atty can do this too). Now is the time for you and your sister to start reaching out to friends and asking for help in finding an attorney.

As I said earlier, she will not be happy with you doing this but it is the only way to protect your mother's assets. Her assets (or their assets) will be what is used for her and her husband's long term care. She might accuse you of robbing her of her $$ but that goes along with this process, I am sorry to say. Sadly, there has always been that stigma with adult children securing the POA just to abuse their parent's money.

I'm sure there are those on the board who have more current information about this and have PM'd you with some guidance.

I can remember spending full days at the library reading every book I could on aging parents, state laws/provisions, etc. Each state is different. Going to the library is less distracting and it's all right at your fingertips. There's too much info online. It gets so very complicated.

 

[SHELLY]

Could it be that your mom is having some anxiety issues about the possibility of losing her 94-year-old husband soon?

Does she have any brothers and sisters you can talk to?

I think you'd be wise to get some counseling for yourself too.

/

 

[jensieblue]

geriatrics

this is difficult but I have come to the conclusion there is nothing more I can do to help with my elderly parents and what I think must be some kind of depression/anxiety attacks, it's time for professional help.
Does anyone have experience or knowledge of local counselors/psychotherapists dealing with this kind of thing?....I am at my wits end!

See if you can find someone who specializes in geriatrics. Your best bet is probably going to be someone who is connected to a medical teaching facility. Another resource would be your local commission on aging group. They typically maintain lists of qualified treatment providers. . If you go to a physician, counselor, psychiatrist or psychologist without the training in geriatrics you will likely find you are goijng in circles. I don't knoe where you are , but you could start by looking under geriatrics in yellow pages. If no luck , try lucking up commission on aging. Still no luck, try a local hospital and see whether you can get in touch with someone in the head of nursing dept. They usually know who has experinence with what populations and can tell you what docs are known for treating elderly. Do you have any connections in other locations? for ex., I know Bham has several geriatric specialists. Atlanta has Emory Medical school with all the connections that provides. My observation has been that the geriatric pop is very different from the general population. they can react to meds in paradoxical ways, some. tranqs will make them more anxious and nervous. Good Luck..it can be very difficult to cope with the complications of aging. We are dealing with this with a 90 YO and have benefited drom an excellent assisted living arrangement.

 

[Mango]

T. Cline, You are not alone.

We are going through something very similar with my MIL, but she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's a few years ago, and now has progressed much faster. She is prone to violent fits and dementia. Right now she is in a nursing home for a broken hip because she hit my SIL who tried to help her out of the car, then tripped on the curb. It most likely will be permanent.

However, many years ago, about the same age as your mother, (MIL is now 84) she had similar issues. One of the things that I found is that Drs. do not check the B-12 levels of their elderly patients as much as they should; since as we age, it doesn't absorb as well from foods. Low B-12 can cause dementia, anxiety, depression and a host of other symptoms. We asked her doctor to check it and we also bought her sublingual B-12 (under the tongue absorbs better). What do you know.... her B-12 level was way below the norm range it should have been. She got B-12 shots to get her boosted, then continued with the sublinguals. She also was given some Levapro, an antidepressant, which is extremely mild, but took the edge off. (they tend to give this to elderly patients who are depressed or anxious)

Good luck to you. I know this isn't easy, but we do what we have to do for family. I would recommend a Psychologists who can dispense medication, if necessary, Therapists can not.

 

[Beach Runner]

T. Cline, You are not alone.

We are going through something very similar with my MIL, but she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's a few years ago, and now has progressed much faster. She is prone to violent fits and dementia. Right now she is in a nursing home for a broken hip because she hit my SIL who tried to help her out of the car, then tripped on the curb. It most likely will be permanent.

However, many years ago, about the same age as your mother, (MIL is now 84) she had similar issues. One of the things that I found is that Drs. do not check the B-12 levels of their elderly patients as much as they should; since as we age, it doesn't absorb as well from foods. Low B-12 can cause dementia, anxiety, depression and a host of other symptoms. We asked her doctor to check it and we also bought her sublingual B-12 (under the tongue absorbs better). What do you know.... her B-12 level was way below the norm range it should have been. She got B-12 shots to get her boosted, then continued with the sublinguals. She also was given some Levapro, an antidepressant, which is extremely mild, but took the edge off. (they tend to give this to elderly patients who are depressed or anxious)

Good luck to you. I know this isn't easy, but we do what we have to do for family. I would recommend a Psychologists who can dispense medication, if necessary, Therapists can not.

I didn't know about the B-12. Thanks for the info.

Mom got put on Depakote for her anger. But on April 30th when the doctor told us she would die that night, he took her off all meds except the Heparin and Cardizem for her a-fib. Then when she got too well to be in hospice, we put her back on Namenda and Exelon, but not the Depakote because her Alzheimer's has progressed to the point that she doesn't have the manic episodes any more.

In Georgia Mom's internist has always prescribed her all of her drugs.

 

[Teresa Cline]

thank you all very much for sharing your information.
I will move towards getting a POA but its unlikely she will sign anything as she is already convinced I want to "put her away" or put her in a nursing home. Shes has always been so bullheaded and stubborn. Shes one of those people you can never tell her anything,,,its her way or no, way kind of person. Or she agrees to something and then just does what she wants to behind your back.,,,shes was"difficult" person even when she was younger.

She was tested for vitamin deficiency, had the whole panel of tests done, even the one for food allergies, yes she is deficient in the b vitamins. We took her to Dr Coetze for all of this, he did give her a couple of intravenous treatments but lordy,,,I had to hear about how"weird" she felt all the way home and she acted like she'd been dosed with some kind of narcotic for how loony she was!,,,drama queen on drugs gets even more suspicious of evil doctor and daughter....its very trying. I have her taking the sub-lingual...or I think she is anyway,,,I ask her abot it all the time.
She is very anti doctor, believed in self treatment and has been a staunch advocate of health and wellness all her life, she thinks she can doctor herself .

thank you all again for your input...I was at wits end the other day with her. Not knowing anyone else who has been through this left me feeling helpless
and the problem remains in that I am not sure how much of her erratic behavior is really totally dementia related or tantrum for attention related. I am confused by her ability to be perfectly sane and rational and then go off into wiggy land and then back into sanity again.

 

[Beach Runner]

thank you all very much for sharing your information.
I will move towards getting a POA but its unlikely she will sign anything as she is already convinced I want to "put her away" or put her in a nursing home. Shes has always been so bullheaded and stubborn. Shes one of those people you can never tell her anything,,,its her way or no, way kind of person. Or she agrees to something and then just does what she wants to behind your back.,,,shes was"difficult" person even when she was younger.

She was tested for vitamin deficiency, had the whole panel of tests done, even the one for food allergies, yes she is deficient in the b vitamins. We took her to Dr Coetze for all of this, he did give her a couple of intravenous treatments but lordy,,,I had to hear about how"weird" she felt all the way home and she acted like she'd been dosed with some kind of narcotic for how loony she was!,,,drama queen on drugs gets even more suspicious of evil doctor and daughter....its very trying. I have her taking the sub-lingual...or I think she is anyway,,,I ask her abot it all the time.
She is very anti doctor, believed in self treatment and has been a staunch advocate of health and wellness all her life, she thinks she can doctor herself .

thank you all again for your input...I was at wits end the other day with her. Not knowing anyone else who has been through this left me feeling helpless
and the problem remains in that I am not sure how much of her erratic behavior is really totally dementia related or tantrum for attention related. I am confused by her ability to be perfectly sane and rational and then go off into wiggy land and then back into sanity again.

That is just part of dementia. When you present her with the legal power of attorney and medical power of attorney papers, just tell her that this is for her own good in case she gets sick. Tell her that you want to know what her preferences are if she were to get ill because if you don't have the power to advocate for her, the hospital staff will make the decisions, and they won't have her wishes in mind -- they will just think of what is best for their bottom line. This is totally true from what I've seen. If she still is belligerent, ask her who she'd rather make the decisions regarding her life and her possessions, you or someone who doesn't care.

If that doesn't work, tell her about my Mom. Tell her that if I hadn't intervened with my medical power of attorney, they would have just written Mom off and she'd be dead now. When Mom was in the hospital, we were inundated by a hospice provider whose representatives seemed so sweet and caring. Then I realized that THEY WANTED US TO SIGN UP MOM ASAP FOR HOSPICE BECAUSE THEY GET THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY FROM MEDICARE AFTER A PATIENT SIGNS UP FOR HOSPICE WHETHER THE PATIENT LIVES 1 DAY OR 90 DAYS. AFTER WE SIGNED UP WITH THEM, THEY ENCOURAGED US TO TAKE MOM OFF ALL MEDS BECAUSE THE SOONER MOM MIGHT HAVE DIED, THE MORE MONEY THEY'D MAKE BECAUSE THEY'D HAVE FEWER OF THE 90 DAYS TO ACTUALLY CARE FOR HER. If I had not had medical power of attorney, Mom would be dead because she was too sick and demented to see what these crooks were doing. I actually should give the credit to our daughter because sister and I were so tired and confused that we were mesmerized by these crooks. Daughter was pre-med/psych at Georgia Tech and saw straight through these people. She really saved her grandmother's life, but it wouldn't have been possible for me to intervene if I had not had medical power of attorney.

 

[Rudyjohn]

thank you all very much for sharing your information.
I will move towards getting a POA but its unlikely she will sign anything as she is already convinced I want to "put her away" or put her in a nursing home. Shes has always been so bullheaded and stubborn. Shes one of those people you can never tell her anything,,,its her way or no, way kind of person. Or she agrees to something and then just does what she wants to behind your back.,,,shes was"difficult" person even when she was younger.

She was tested for vitamin deficiency, had the whole panel of tests done, even the one for food allergies, yes she is deficient in the b vitamins. We took her to Dr Coetze for all of this, he did give her a couple of intravenous treatments but lordy,,,I had to hear about how"weird" she felt all the way home and she acted like she'd been dosed with some kind of narcotic for how loony she was!,,,drama queen on drugs gets even more suspicious of evil doctor and daughter....its very trying. I have her taking the sub-lingual...or I think she is anyway,,,I ask her abot it all the time.
She is very anti doctor, believed in self treatment and has been a staunch advocate of health and wellness all her life, she thinks she can doctor herself .

thank you all again for your input...I was at wits end the other day with her. Not knowing anyone else who has been through this left me feeling helpless
and the problem remains in that I am not sure how much of her erratic behavior is really totally dementia related or tantrum for attention related. I am confused by her ability to be perfectly sane and rational and then go off into wiggy land and then back into sanity again.

This sounds like how my dad was too. Bull-headed, anti-dr. He was pretty much one of the original "birkinstock guys", no meds, always blissfully healthy. When we were growing up we had to eat fish, no processed foods, no sugar or white bread. So yes, it was very hard to get him to see that he needed to be cared for by a few drs and that he was endangering himself and others with the decline of his health. It was very hard because he was SO LUCID, but he was frail, falling, but then driving, etc.

To make a very long (& boring) story short, he finally relented and signed the POA with the urging of several business colleagues. Talk about hurting his pride... And in all honesty, he was never quite the same for his remaining years. But I couldn't have him kill someone accidentally.

It's tough. Take care.

 

[seacrestgirl]

Ohhhhh, I feel your pain. I treat patients like this everyday....it's really much harder for family. My advice is always this....if there is a sibling that lives out of town, then consider letting that sibling do some of the dirty work. It is so much harder on the sibling who is living close by to successfully care for a parent if they are constantly being blamed by that parent. Someone has to be the fall guy, there's no way around it.

Has anyone done mental testing? The mini-mental test is a good, quick way to gauge if there is in fact some dementia and, if so, how advanced. It certainly sounds like she has some sort of mental disorder brewing. It can be as simple as delirium from her not taking her meds right, or more serious like a dementia. There are many medication options, many involve a patch or injections that are good for patients who may not take their medication by mouth routinely. You or your sister will simply have to take your Mom to a healthcare provider for treatment. She sounds a little paranoid and delusional to me.

Regardless of what is going on, the Alzheimer's Association is a fabulous resource for you. Check out their site at: www.alz.org
Not only do they have tips on how to handle certain behaviors, they have a 24 hour hotline that can be an enormous support to you. You can call if you need to vent, if you have questions, etc.

Focus on the good days. When your Mom is lucid and agreeable, have her sign the durable power of attorney. This allows you to make decisions for her only if she is incapacitated.

You cannot go this alone. You have to get a healthcare provider on board with you.....it will take the whole lot of you to figure this out and manage this effectively. PM Skunky and ask him if he can help or if he knows anyone that he can refer you to.

Good luck! Know that you are not alone.