Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

[FloridaBeachBum]

#1747. Guess those BFOs with pre-2016 ordinances are just SOL. They "lost" their right to use "their beach" when they re-worded HB631 to exclude them. Wonder why all these lawyers arent lining up in those counties to "support private property rights" ??

jodiFL and bob1, as CU believers why do you use pseudonyms? Do pseudonyms determine your belief credibility or do the verifiable facts you post?

jodiFL, your question suggests you know more or know something about CU litigation we all do not or you do not know much about any other CU ordinance(s).

a. Of Florida’s 67 counties which county(s) had CU ordinance(s) prior to January 1, 2016?
b. Did the lower courts affirm the ordinance(s) PRIOR to ordnance(s) going into effect or did the county(s) declare CU without BPO due process first?
c. Were any of the CU ordinance(s) appealed to the higher courts, which courts, and what were the rulings?
d. What are the county(s) specific recreational CU uses in the ordinance(s)?
e. Do/did the ordinance(s) apply to all private beach properties in that/those county(s)?
f. In any Florida CU litigation is driving public vehicles on private beach property ruled ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and free from dispute? If yes, would is it reasonable that the automobile is “ancient” according to old English custom common law?
g. If SCOTUS found ancient English common law of public customary use of private property with title to the MHWL unConstitutional would the previous ordnance(s) be valid or invalid?

This BPO can answer these simple questions, can any CU believer, and post them here?

 

[Suzanne Harris]

That is an interesting considering that you are the leader of FBFA, who is a co-plaintiff suing her. Walton County has already legally acknowledged years ago in court Suzanne Harris's private property rights on the beach. Your organization's lawsuit against her is considered by many as frivolous, and the lawyers have responded accordingly.

Your push to sue over 5000 people who own the 1194 parcels "at all costs" with "no compromise" has always lacked credibility. What did you tell Suzanne is the argument that removal of private property rights is ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and without dispute as the lawsuit claims?

I do think I know anyone named Stone Cold therefore do not voice your opinion about me or what I think or don’t think. I do think this lawsuit will take 7 years or more and will cost millions of dollars. I do believe the county let this get completely out of control. They can get control of vendors and that will be a good start.

Dave has not told me anything to convince me of anything. I have a mind of my own and you should know that by now .

 

[Jim Tucker]

I do think I know anyone named Stone Cold therefore do not voice your opinion about me or what I think or don’t think. I do think this lawsuit will take 7 years or more and will cost millions of dollars. I do believe the county let this get completely out of control. They can get control of vendors and that will be a good start.

Dave has not told me anything to convince me of anything. I have a mind of my own and you should know that by now .

 

[Stone Cold J]

I do think I know anyone named Stone Cold therefore do not voice your opinion about me or what I think or don’t think. I do think this lawsuit will take 7 years or more and will cost millions of dollars. I do believe the county let this get completely out of control. They can get control of vendors and that will be a good start.

Dave has not told me anything to convince me of anything. I have a mind of my own and you should know that by now .

Suzanne, you are correct, I don't know you. If you will read again what I wrote, you will see I specifically did not write anything of your opinion or what you think or do not think. I could never presume to know your mind. But if my choice of words gave that impression, please accept my sincere apology. My comment was merely based on what Dave has previously posted on social media. I appreciate your posts, comments, letters to the editors, and your efforts to make SOWAL a better place.

And if opponents would just wait for the court case to be settled one way or the other, but that would defeat the purpose of the thread.

So is the general feeling by CU supports to spend $50,000,000 BEFORE anyone (including the BCC, County Lawyer, Mr No Compromise at any costs, or any other CU supporter, can answer how removal of property rights (right of exclusion) without compensation is somehow ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and without dispute as claimed in the lawsuit?

This is a claim the BCC has never made in any ordinance prior to 2016. As referenced before, a COURT CASE IN 2009 against the county was ruled Edgewater beachfront property has been historically at all time for the exclusive, private use of Edgewater’s owners and guests. What makes Edgewater rights previously recognized in a court of law by the County, but now being sued by the BCC to remove those same rights, any different than the private property next door to Edgewater?

If the BCC has always had full use of private property, why did the BCC previously purchase property to make it public beach? If there is a lawsuit that is going to cost $50,000,000, doesn’t that mean it is under dispute? Is it reasonable to remove property rights without compensation against a minority of private property owner in Walton County? If successful, why not extend that removal to other private property owners in Walton County to use their land for public parking, shuttle stops, and public restrooms without compensation? If some kids have been playing baseball on a piece of land, why not use the same logic and build a sports stadium on that land without compensation to the owner?

Saying the county should wait to spend $50,000,000 before they answer the question (eventually Judge Green must be told how this is ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and without dispute) is similar to spending millions of dollars on a property for the new TDC building, way above appraisal, only to find out AFTER spending the money that the building won’t meet their purpose and must be torn down or sold for scrap. Shouldn’t the BCC (or ANYONE) at least answer some basic questions BEFORE risking $50,000,0000? How do you think the Supreme Court will rule on this case of the BCC trying removing property rights without compensation as ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and without dispute?

 

[mputnal]

Stone Cold, your group manipulates words, facts and the truth in order to manipulate people. The fact is this is a beach community that takes pride in our resources which include people (not exclude). If you were really part of this community you would understand but you are far removed from us. Of course we make mistakes but we need each other to solve these problems. It is called putting a face to the problems. You offer us nothing really because we are not ignorant about our problems of beach density and vending and infrastructure etc. Your solution is to follow one principle because the ends justify the means. It solves hardly any of our problems. You repeat this one principle over and over and over because you know that many BFO's take pride and value in community. The County has made many mistakes in our community but IMO this lawsuit to determine if our beaches are public or private is not one of them. There are many principles at play in LLH. Your solution is to abandon all principles but one that will certainly benefit those you work for and hurts thousands of others. Stop trying to talk for anyone but yourself.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Do the people on Walton County Ideas for Visioning and Quality of Life really buy this perpetuated mistruth? Nobody including Dave, denounced it.

Poster on Facebook from 5 days ago:
Walton county should do eminent domain on any land south of the CCL. Beachfront owner should be paid the small fee they paid to quiet their title and no more.

Dave Rauschkolb’s response:
yes, I believe Eminent domain is their endgame but I completely agree if that is the case no more than $400 a parcel for what it cost to quiet title.

REDICULOUS!

After a bit of thought, I am more than convinced that Dave simply has it in with beach front owners. The true rediculousness of his posts does nothing to further his cause other than drive a wedge further into this already divisive topic.

The above example from Rauschkolb is just one of many which accomplishes nothing but casts ALL BFOs in a negative light.

I really didn’t know how clairvoyant Reggie’s initial post was until I saw and continue to see the crazy attacks on private property owners using the CU battle flag.

 

[Dave Rauschkolb]

Do the people on Walton County Ideas for Visioning and Quality of Life really buy this perpetuated mistruth? Nobody including Dave, denounced it.

Poster on Facebook from 5 days ago:
Walton county should do eminent domain on any land south of the CCL. Beachfront owner should be paid the small fee they paid to quiet their title and no more.

Dave Rauschkolb’s response:
yes, I believe Eminent domain is their endgame but I completely agree if that is the case no more than $400 a parcel for what it cost to quiet title.

REDICULOUS!

After a bit of thought, I am more than convinced that Dave simply has it in with beach front owners. The true rediculousness of his posts does nothing to further his cause other than drive a wedge further into this already divisive topic.

The above example from Rauschkolb is just one of many which accomplishes nothing but casts ALL BFOs in a negative light.

I really didn’t know how clairvoyant Reggie’s initial post was until I saw and continue to see the crazy attacks on private property owners using the CU battle flag.

I think you said it First. Malarkey! I don't attack Beachfront owners, only the notion of private beaches. I do stand up to the handful of those specific beachfront owners, non-beachfront owners who act like they are, and lawyers and political operatives who have driven a wedge in our community by excluding the public from our centuries shared beaches.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Dave,

IMHO, customary use is to you more of a popularity contest than a civil / legal debate. As I’ve seen multiple times, you do absolutely nothing to dispel this quiet title myth - rather you encourage it. And this quiet title fantasy is just one of your many mistruths (including supposed public beach turning private at Vizcaya) that you perpetuate all in the name of winning the “hearts and minds” of those who are truly ignorant (understandably in some cases) of the facts. And it provides fake ammunition for your followers to help spread the “gospel”.

Hell, I (and everyone here on SoWal) would be really pissed off if any public beach was sold off as private. But of course, as you very well know, that’s not the case.

I have full confidence in your ability to understand human psychology and to your credit, you (and Daniel Uhlfelder) have done an effective job in making beach front private property owners appear to be less than desirable members of this community in the eyes of your followers and those who don’t know any better.

I’m ok with customary use supporters’ belief in general, though I obviously disagree - but I’m compelled to call out the ones that fabricate and propagate negative alternate realities that take personal aim at beach front private property owners. And here you and I are.

You are a “leader” in our community, a successful entrepreneur, a family man, even a surfer dude. Why do you have to continue to stain your reputation by all the creative mistruths? You helped initiate the original customary use law suit by helping convince 5 commissioners to ignore required DUE PROCESS and pass the original CU ordinance and then when that failed, to initiate the customary lawsuit such as it is. You were effective. And now it’s in court where it belongs.

Take the high road and just “Let It Be”. Quit with the propaganda, here and on Facebook. Maybe our so called BFO closet lawyers (your nemesis) will back off as I think they have already effectively made their case against CU and then you won’t lose sleep trying to figure out who they are. All bets are off if others come out with the same line of attacks.

And please don’t call your compromise a compromise when there’s no compromise.

 

[kayti elliott]

At any rate the truth is, Excluding people from our centuries of shared beaches and calling them trespassers will destroy our 30A Legacy.

Centuries? How many centuries have you been sharing the beach with others?

 

[mputnal]

BMBV I thought I would just let you know that we public beach supporters are unified because we believe in a universal truth. I would explain this truth to you but you have sold your conscience to a materialistic existence of privatized beach ownership and would never understand. No judgement here. Just facts.

Maybe I should try to explain to you. The concept is very simple: I see the beach as a natural beauty with a power within itself greater than any one or more humans. The power of the beach resource in terms of hope and happiness is something that you will unfortunately never feel because if you did you would not support private beaches. Again, this is not a judgement because many of us humans have become materialistic (including myself) but this issue has made me think about what "the beach" means to me and how I would feel about if I had the power to exclude people from her natural beauty and power. It is so easy to justify our materialism of beach ownership as "earned" when you believe it is legal to own such a powerful resource. I have discovered that justification and entitlement are linked together to form a significant barrier to empathy. I am very concerned about the way these people you support in this forum have disconnected from people. Don't drink from their well of entitlements. Yes this lawsuit is expensive but worth every penny from my perspective if it stops this attack on not just the beach but the attack on the value of people in general. There are other reasons to support public beaches but this is a primary reason for me. Let me know when you are ready for the many other reasons