It is now very obvious to everyone what this is about. Public beach for every respectful citizen or Private beach for a few who who have entitled themselves and used their power to exclude the respectful public from the beach. The power brokers have done a poor job convincing even one or two people that this is about a falsehood and land grab. It is so much more organic that property rights, man made process and one just one individual. It is about who has the rights to enjoyment of this resource. Yes, it is obvious which side is tuned in to the truth of what it means to be connected. Connected to each other. Connected to the spirit of out natural earth. Connected to life that is bigger than the individual. The hypocrisy is off the charts. The justifications are off the charts. The political agenda is off the charts. I believe our founders would be very disappointed...
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
- Thread starter Reggie Gaskins
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Again, the sounds of desperation when the "house of cards" starts to fall apart.
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...especially on a parcel by parcel basis.
Mptnal, you have gone from “Okay I have read some of the contents of the hearing and I would say the county seems to be "sufficiently clear" in conclusion of it's determination of customary beach use by the public” to “ I speculate that the evidence should exist” to “let’s have a fish fry and be friends” and now your latest cry “time to lawyer up!”
What happened to the answering the base question of the lawsuit and scheduling the fish fry?
You are fighting for the right to go the beach! Great, you won before you started. You have full rights by the State of Florida to walk the ENTIRE 26 miles enjoying the shoreline, and the ability to swim, fish, build sandcastles, take family pictures, and of course enjoy the beautiful sun rises and sun sets. THE PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE THAT RIGHT.
You have the privilege of having unlimited people and unlimited beach equipment on Walton County Public Beaches. There are some county owned public beaches that may be land lock by gated communities which makes a long hike to haul beach equipment. Possibly you can get with Surf Riders to file a lawsuit against those gated subdivisions to get direct access to Walton County owned property to make it easier to haul unlimited beach equipment. The Surf Rider organization has had great success gaining access to beaches that are land locked, in particular in California. The FBFA founder and FBFA lawyer, own homes, and live in those gated communities that block ACCESS TO PUBLIC BEACH. Maybe they can help with the lawsuit.
Day Camping with unlimited people and unlimited beach equipment on private deed property against the will of the property owner is neither a right, nor privilege, nor legal. This is a independent decision each and every parcel owner makes for their unique deeded property boundaries. You can be an invited guest, or rent their property, or go the State Park, or to the Public beach if you want to day camp. Each decision by each different parcel owner is independent of each other property owner and each owner decides their own policy for their property. That is the American way.
So what information are you going to give this new lawyer on WHY it is reasonable to remove property rights from legally deeded private property owners which have NEVER been challenged before 2016, and WHO has shown going to every single parcel in the 26 mile beach from the mean high tide line to the dunes is without interruption (note: there are numerous cases which show this has been interrupted, such as decades old trespassing cases and the 2008 BCC Edgewater Court Order), and lastly WHEN did this issue become WITHOUT DISPUTE as specified in the County Lawsuit? Seems like your call to “Lawyer UP” along with estimated cost of $50,000,000 and 10 years in court proves this is highly disputed. Didn’t you just PROVE the lawsuit requirement of “without dispute” has not been met by the need to lawyer up?
I do think the longer this goes on, the less likely a BPO is willing to welcome people on their private deeded property.
What happened to the answering the base question of the lawsuit and scheduling the fish fry?
You are fighting for the right to go the beach! Great, you won before you started. You have full rights by the State of Florida to walk the ENTIRE 26 miles enjoying the shoreline, and the ability to swim, fish, build sandcastles, take family pictures, and of course enjoy the beautiful sun rises and sun sets. THE PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE THAT RIGHT.
You have the privilege of having unlimited people and unlimited beach equipment on Walton County Public Beaches. There are some county owned public beaches that may be land lock by gated communities which makes a long hike to haul beach equipment. Possibly you can get with Surf Riders to file a lawsuit against those gated subdivisions to get direct access to Walton County owned property to make it easier to haul unlimited beach equipment. The Surf Rider organization has had great success gaining access to beaches that are land locked, in particular in California. The FBFA founder and FBFA lawyer, own homes, and live in those gated communities that block ACCESS TO PUBLIC BEACH. Maybe they can help with the lawsuit.
Day Camping with unlimited people and unlimited beach equipment on private deed property against the will of the property owner is neither a right, nor privilege, nor legal. This is a independent decision each and every parcel owner makes for their unique deeded property boundaries. You can be an invited guest, or rent their property, or go the State Park, or to the Public beach if you want to day camp. Each decision by each different parcel owner is independent of each other property owner and each owner decides their own policy for their property. That is the American way.
So what information are you going to give this new lawyer on WHY it is reasonable to remove property rights from legally deeded private property owners which have NEVER been challenged before 2016, and WHO has shown going to every single parcel in the 26 mile beach from the mean high tide line to the dunes is without interruption (note: there are numerous cases which show this has been interrupted, such as decades old trespassing cases and the 2008 BCC Edgewater Court Order), and lastly WHEN did this issue become WITHOUT DISPUTE as specified in the County Lawsuit? Seems like your call to “Lawyer UP” along with estimated cost of $50,000,000 and 10 years in court proves this is highly disputed. Didn’t you just PROVE the lawsuit requirement of “without dispute” has not been met by the need to lawyer up?
I do think the longer this goes on, the less likely a BPO is willing to welcome people on their private deeded property.
I was asked by a dozen different people to go by the courthouse and sign one to help the CU "cause" but from what I was told, I didn't think I could sign a sworn statement to things that happened a long time ago. I know people who signed and submitted them who didn't even know the beaches down here existed until several years ago. I'd just like to see one.
They were every where for months, not just the court house. If you had been interested in the "cause" at any time before this thread you could have found them,(probably still can) As for signing about something "that happened a long time ago"...thats not how an affidavit works. You are signing about something you personally did/know about/saw. etc. It can be from 20 years ago or last week.
SCJ you must not be reading my posts which makes sense because your purpose here has no community value. Many moons ago I posted that Walton County needs to lawyer up to meet that demands of process and the shear numbers of lawyers that wealth and power will bring. There are two County Lawyers and dozens of wealth and power lawyers. So, my post is about common sense not a change of position.
I am still waiting on you for the fish fry. I hope recreational public use wins this lawsuit but even if we don't then I am not the type that takes my ball and goes home. I do not usually give up that easy. Your message is exclusion (disconnection from society). My message is inclusion (a connection to society). Your group attending a community fish fry with non-BFO's would be a good thing for you to connect to real people not just words on a keyboard.
You keep asking questions that I have answered many times. You just don't like the answers. That is why I came up with the idea of the fish fry in a debate format. Listen if you think you would lose the debate then I understand. But since my message is more about community and less about winning the millions of reasons for public beaches then I encouraged your group to attend a fish fry even without the debate. Just so that we both know we are real people who work and play and raise good respectful families. I don't see the respect coming from your side when it comes to people (society). Your group seems to despise people who go to the beach to laugh and swim and sunbathe and play volley ball and throw a frisbee etc etc. You like to call us "day campers" which is derogatory and inaccurate. You use terms like this to keep BFO's fired up and willing to spend their money on a lawsuit instead of making a compromise on exclusion. Beach density, vending and behavior would have been very easy to find solutions for. From your side it was never about protecting property rights and more about protecting what you see is a capital asset as your group take over the majority of the beach. Another reason for a fish fry for me is to communicate in person while looking at another human being. I am interested to find out if you have a shadow
I am still waiting on you for the fish fry. I hope recreational public use wins this lawsuit but even if we don't then I am not the type that takes my ball and goes home. I do not usually give up that easy. Your message is exclusion (disconnection from society). My message is inclusion (a connection to society). Your group attending a community fish fry with non-BFO's would be a good thing for you to connect to real people not just words on a keyboard.
You keep asking questions that I have answered many times. You just don't like the answers. That is why I came up with the idea of the fish fry in a debate format. Listen if you think you would lose the debate then I understand. But since my message is more about community and less about winning the millions of reasons for public beaches then I encouraged your group to attend a fish fry even without the debate. Just so that we both know we are real people who work and play and raise good respectful families. I don't see the respect coming from your side when it comes to people (society). Your group seems to despise people who go to the beach to laugh and swim and sunbathe and play volley ball and throw a frisbee etc etc. You like to call us "day campers" which is derogatory and inaccurate. You use terms like this to keep BFO's fired up and willing to spend their money on a lawsuit instead of making a compromise on exclusion. Beach density, vending and behavior would have been very easy to find solutions for. From your side it was never about protecting property rights and more about protecting what you see is a capital asset as your group take over the majority of the beach. Another reason for a fish fry for me is to communicate in person while looking at another human being. I am interested to find out if you have a shadow
Interesting question. The content of those affidavits seems to feed right into the Judge’s line of questioning.
But even more interesting, the concept has been brought up on this thread before...
What would happen if an attorney, or several attorneys, for the defendant - were to depose in person, every author of every affidavit?
Those innocent people who were buying a beach towel, or meeting friends for a drink, or walking through a parking lot to go to the beach, or stopping to pick up groceries, or attending a local concert... They were enticed by a tablefull of smiling, team T-shirt wearing do-gooders, to sign a fun document that said they’ve always loved the beach. Who wouldn’t?
But when an officer of the court asks 10,000 of them, one by one, from across the eastern U.S., to come sit across a conference table in Walton County, with lawyers & a stenographer & tape recorder, to raise their right hand and speak the truth under penalty of purgery,
Will their story change?
Will they retract their statements?
Will their memory of using the beach for 20 years fade? Will they remember the address of each visit?
Will they know if they were on the 50% of Walton Co beach that was public?
Will they know if they were on the 50% of Walton Co beach that was private?
Will their revised affidavit be of any further use to the class warriors?
Will they think twice before again producing a legal document for litigation as if they were signing a neighborhood petition? Big difference... Oops?
I spoke to several who had signed and asked them if they were aware that they could be questioned by opposing counsel about their individual affidavit. The look of "unawareness" was obvious and a little comical.
Ya
LOL.. you are making it sound like those of us who filled out, then signed, produced a valid photo ID, then raised our right hand and swore to the truth of what we had just done, didnt realize the ramifications and possible actions that could arise from it. Ive never had to do that for some "neighborhood petition". Will I come and sit at that table? You can bet the farm I will. And your stenographer better have done her finger exercises that morning because I have been using these beaches for a very long time and will give alot of information to her. I wont forget the photos of me and my family using these beaches either. Just curious.... were all of those 15k+ affidavits objected to within 10 days?