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FloridaBeachBum

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2017
463
112
Santa Rosa Beach
To repeat, since you have repeated again - “this forum is a court of "public" opinion.” But whose opinion is CREDIBLE and whose is NOT? Those with convoluted non-linear conspiracies grand self philological thoughts and mind reading ability of what others think who disagree with your unsubstantiated CU beliefs or those with facts, verifiable opinions, or law?

Mputnal “you can twist and shout and turn somersaults but it will not change the FACT that these beaches have always been shared with the public.” Then why is there a Walton Sherriff trespass SOP? I admit that I know that the Sherriff has responded to many private beachfront properties over the decades and at Vizcaya and the Sherriff ordered the uninvited persons to allow the private property owner quiet, uninterrupted enjoyment of their property they paid for and pay Walton property taxes on.

At least you did not use the "anti-social autocrats." BPO label again. Namaste.
 
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mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
1,889
466
BTWW, if Mickey were a human he would have a selfishness gene. Selfishness is important to the extent of survival. So just ask yourself this question: do you need the power to exclude the public from the beach for survival or merely wanting something that you do not need? What makes great people is that awareness of selfishness and the practice of unselfishness. You just need a little practice and you will be okay. Just like all of us...
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
1,889
466
FBB, why do we need a Sherrif period? People (including you and I ) sometimes break the rules. Have you never gone over the speed limit for example? We have a lot of rules to follow. If the people were breaking rules of behavior on the beach then you of course are correct but if they were simply recreating on the beach in a respectful manner then why not share the beach with those people? I do not have all the information about each incident that you refer to and maybe Vizcaya has a different set of rules but generally speaking the beach has always been shared. Let the court figure out all the legal stuff. You are hurting BFO's reputation as a sharing and caring bunch of people with greatness in their heart and mind.

If I were reading these posts for information about the inorganic part of existence I would turn to you as a source but if I were reading these post for information on an organic part of existence I would search beyond the inorganic words of law. Life is not linear. Liberty is not linear. Happiness is not linear. The beach sand is not linear. Think about it...
 

Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
I believe people have thought about it and tried to educate themselves on the facts and opinions. There is court of "public opinion" and a "court of law". Sometime the "court of public opinion" reaches the same conclusion as the "court of law" and apparently there is another court which may be totally different and not rely on laws or opinions.

Everyone should read the lawsuit, court documents, and the Larry Jones deposition. Private Property, extending to the toe of the dune is not, nor has ever been disputed by Walton County, the BCC, or the State of Florida.

What is being challenged, is the attempted transfer of property rights (right of exclusion) from the deeded property owner to the BCC for their exclusive determination independent of the will of the property owner. Each individual property owner has always had the right to make their own determination of the number of people and the amount of equipment they allow on their private property and will go to the supreme court to protect that right.

The 2016 BCC Special Workshop documents the change of the BCC strategy from purchasing property and converting to public beach with parking and restrooms, to the taking of property rights (right of exclusion) from the private property owner with no compensation for the purpose of forced occupation against the will of the property owner from the MHTL to the toe of the dune. This is about billions of tourist dollars and not about the beach. Read the minutes.

There is no challenge to the ability to swim, fish, or walk the entire 26 miles of Walton County shoreline, or the entire shoreline of Florida. That is controlled by the State of Florida and not the private property owner. This is not about “sharing” but forced occupation against the will of the property owner for BCC tourist dollars.

Again, please read the lawsuit, court documents, deposition, and 2016 BCC Special Workshop Minutes.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
1,889
466
Lets leave the lawsuit and reading of the documents to Judge Green. Our job here in this community is to observe, listen, engage and enjoy the resource. This community has always shared the beach. There is just no way to get around that one fact. Again, please get out there and see for yourself by talking to BFO's and non-BFO's alike. Judge Green knows how to read the documents and interpret the law our job is to live and let live. Again, please understand that the State of Florida owns the sandy beach and we all share it. This is about elite wealth and power wanting control of a resource. Maybe go to a beach service or something that reconnects you to the greatness of sharing and caring. I will do the same. You are using to many trigger words like forced occupation and they no longer have any effect. Listen if you want to be a lawyer then go to law school otherwise let the Court do it's duty. If you were honest about your identity and purpose we would all know why you keep saying the same things over and over. Is it not obvious why you are posting here?
 

Stone Cold J

Beach Lover
Jun 6, 2019
150
171
SRB
Reading is Fundamental. Don’t put your head in the sand. Education is important. The State of Florida owns from the MWHL to the Gulf of Mexico. To determine who owns the sandy beach (between the MHWL and toe of the dune), please refer to county property records to see if it is owned by the Federal Government (Military), or the State of Florida (State Parks), or the County (Public Beach) or is Private Property. This lawsuit is not about “Mikey Mouse sharing his shirt with Pooh”, it is about the change of direction of the BCC to try and remove the right of exclusion from the private property owner to the absolute control of the BCC. Follow the money. This lawsuit is about the BCC chasing billions of tourist dollars. Read the 2016 BCC Workshop Minutes.
 

Dave Rauschkolb

Beach Fanatic
Jul 13, 2005
1,006
790
Santa Rosa Beach
CUSTOMARY USE VS PRIVATE BEACHES

DEFINING ACCESS AND USE, CONVENIENCE ADVANTAGES AND FINDING SOLUTIONS FOR HOUSEKEEPING ON THE BEACH IN Walton County

This issue is based on the difference between access and use. In most privately held areas access to the beach is controlled just like in Seaside, Rosemary, Watersound, Watercolor & Alys and others. Use is a different thing all together which is causing all the hullabaloo over Customary Use. The perception problem I see with the private beach advocates is this: "if I own the access, I own the beach." I say they are two different things entirely and the problem arises when one group perceives them to be together and another group sees them as separate.

Rosemary Beach, Seaside, Watersound, Alys and others all have accesses that are private, meaning they control the "easy" access to the beaches; they are the closest to guest homes and parking. Each street has an access for convenience much in the same way Seagrove Beach was designed by Cube McGee. Unlike in Seaside, Cube in the 1940s kept the access public and the beach was and most of it still is deeded for public use. Having an easy access is premium. The fact about going to the beach is, most people just don't want to lug all their beach stuff in the sand more than say, 50 yards.

In Seaside, Robert Davis has chosen, for the past 40 years, to allow public access to town center. That access is a positive element when you purchased because "it accommodated all."; I believe the public town center access is good for our town. Again, we are talking about "access." In these instances where privately held towns/resorts have private access it is bought and paid for; it is the most convenient for that reason.

In most all of these towns you have to either be staying there or own there to access the beach conveniently. Public access is an element of wonderful beach towns all around the world and Seaside, thankfully is no different. Part of what makes Seaside exceptional is it's town center public access. Watersound, where I live has the closest public access at Deer Lake State Park just towards the western boundary of Watersound. The closest public access on the east is about a half mile east of the Peninsula gate at Watersound on the other side of the lake bridge. Non residents and tourists do come to Watersound but not too often because it is a long walk. Roughly 65 feet of sandy beach is dedicated to the public in Watersound and all St. Joe properties due to a land deal with the State in the 80's. So, even now Watersound is a public beach with predominantly private access but a large area of the sandy beach is open to the public for sharing if they take the walk. The beach chairs are only usable by renters, homeowners, beach club members or both. Anyone my set up and enjoy the normal customary beach activities anyone would participate in at Watersound Beach. We all know Rosemary Beach and Aly's all have combination locks at all town beach accesses except from the nearest public access. Since HB631 folks may only walk in the wet sand in Rosemary, Alys and the parts of Seaside away from the town center public access area.

Now let's discuss use. Because I am a proponent of Customary Use, I believe that anyone who may access the beach from a public access point may use the beach as people customarily have for centuries. Once they are on the beach they may traverse east or west on any part of the sandy beach and enjoy the beach wherever they please provided they are willing to walk that far with all their stuff. Beach vendors used to take orders for chairs and placed them individually for each call wherever the renter wished. At the end of the day they picked up the chairs. It was a clean transaction; drop off, pickup and get paid. They did not take over large swaths of the beaches with unattended beach chairs like they do now; I expect that is about to change. And my hope is Customary Use will prevail so we may go back to the way we have alway used the beaches until July 1, 2018 when HB631 went into effect.

I contend that all these towns including Seaside have a geographic advantage or rather, a convenience advantage. Remember I said people don't like to lug their stuff more than 50 yards? It is well documented that the areas where conflict occurs regarding use are the sandy parts of the beaches closest to public accesses. Rosemary Beach's E & W border streets, Seaside's E & W border Streets, Blue Mountain Beach, Ed Walline Beach access, etc....the concern and conflicts mostly happen in these areas because you have the public moving on to the beaches behind private homes that border the public access. I would contend that the interior homes that are more than 100 yards from the public accesses have fewer issues if at all. People just don't have the proclivity to walk long distances to go to a specific beach. So, those beachfront owners who bought near a public access should have known people would be using the beach behind their homes. They had the option of buying an interior home with more seclusion but they did not. Many of those folks, the border folks, are the loudest voices pushing for private beaches. I say if you buy a home right next to a cow pasture...well, then get used to the cows. Buyer beware. Pretty simple. We are not hearing so much complaining from the folks in the more secluded areas away from public accesses.

I was in Hanalei Bay on Kauai with my wife some years ago and we stayed at the Princeville Resort. There was a public access around the property to accommodate the public to get to the beach. It was a long walk that most did not take except for the surfers wanting to surf the bay. If you stayed at the resort you had "private access" which was more convenient and provided the privilege of beach chairs and other amenities tied to the resort. The locals and tourists came to the beach by a nearby, bordering public walkway. They had to carry their stuff and were not permitted to rent or use the beach chairs as they were not staying at the resort. They were permitted to use the beach though and set up with their own stuff if they wished. Very few ever did because the resort had a geographic advantage and people had to park and walk a long way to get there. They both shared the resource but with fair ground rules everyone understood. Different access but shared use. Private access on the one hand, Public access on the other. Shared use. Simple, fair and equitable.

Lastly, I suggest, whether CU is re-instated or not, to regulate behavior, be proactive and educate beachgoers we should expand the army of TDC paid Beach Ambassadors. They would be uniformed and trained in public relations on the acceptable Walton County beach do's and dont's. All the current volunteers led brilliantly by Laurie Reichenbach could and should be paid positions. I suggested this program to the County, TDC and Sheriff almost two year ago. Through the partnership of a group of dedicated volunteers and paid TDC staff the program is excellently working to help address behavioral complaints from homeowners and inform the beachgoing public. The irony is, I first suggested that program idea to help address behavior complaints from Beachfront owners and since HB631 they may no longer use and traverse most private beaches to do what they were meant to do.

I suggest breaking out all of the Walton County Beaches into 3 separate sectors with 3 phone numbers. Each team of Ambassadors would work the beaches 24/7 on some acceptable, small vehicle. Electric would be best because they are quiet. These Ambassadors would respond to Beachfront owners concerns about behavior behind their homes. They would call a Beach Ambassador instead of the Sheriff if someone got out of line. If it escalated then the Sheriff would be called. Mostly they would be helpful, friendly, welcoming ambassadors of our community. Keeping an eye out for deep turtle hole diggers, encouraging safety and informing the public. Occasionally they might be needed to usher someone off the dunes or a private walkover. This program is already working; let's make it really work for beachfront owners and us all.

floridabeachesforall.org

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Reggie Gaskins

Beach Lover
Oct 4, 2018
153
259
58
Blue Mountain Beach
That is the 5th, fifth, 5x that Dave has blessed us with that very exact, word for word novel about the beach Emperor on this little ol’ thread. Geez!. Does Dave have nothing else to say over 6 months? Or his he distracting attention from recent developments? You decide.

Neighbors, please, regardless on which side you might find yourself regarding CU, regardless of your interest level at all, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE never relinquish the reading of pleadings and deciding of issues that affect your quality of life, solely to government officials and self appointed Beach Emperors. Keep informed. Be curious. Ask questions. READ!!! Otherwise, we end up in messes like this one.

Has Dave ever asked you to research? Has FBFA? Ask yourself, why not?

If you care to dig deep on this one, as many dedicated folks much smarter than me here have obviously done, it will become crystal clear how we got here. The post by SCJ 4 posts above this one is a great place to start.

The depositions, the BCC 2016 “Workshop” meetings, the court documents in this case, all come together one could conclude, to uncover a local takeover strategy of recognized private property for one reason... more tourists and their billions of dollars to dump on your/our beaches. Simply to provide more millions for powerful developers and county officials. It’s all right there, in print. You’ll see some disturbing conversations.

Or, you could go to Pooh Corner in Hundred Acre Wood; follow the black bear on the pine straw trail, they will lead you straight there. You can talk with like minded sheep over some fish.

While the real leaders are silently contributing and shaping a better life for all in our community without asking for the credit or recognition.

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mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
1,889
466
Education is vital to this Country and the future of this planet. I am so glad that the Power Brokers supports education. Reading is vital to this Country and the future of this planet. I am so glad that the power brokers support reading. We have found our common ground right? Not. What the power brokers want you to do is be brain washed and that this is all about the court documents and property rights which they hope will give them the power to exclude you and me off the beach. No thank you! I will give the power brokers credit though for educating me on how elite wealth and power believe they are superior to all of us and will abuse that power at every opportunity. Don't give them that opportunity. Heck they will even read for you and tell you what those documents say. Bravo Sierra. My advice to all of us is read, educate and engage with our neighbors and the community not exclude them. The power brokers do not want you to engage with the community. I was serious about having a civil community function that they refused. They hide their identity. Is it not obvious what their purpose is? My grandmother gave me more information about life that these people who think they are above the rest of us. She told me more than once that actions speak louder than words. Go out and do something good. Engage with your neighbors and the community whether it be sharing the beach or making a living or just casual conversation in person. Be real. Look at people when you communicate with them. Practice civil conversation with people you disagree with. Value that civility. It is okay to be an activist for something that you feel is right (of course be civil). Listen to what both sides are saying. If you find someone who talks all the time and never listens then you might be talking to a power broker...
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
1,889
466
Those last posts by Reggie/Regina (false name/ hidden identity) and Dave (a real person) explains the difference between elite power whose purpose is to exclude everyone from the beach (abuse of power) and an a local businessman who believes in the value of public beaches for everyone. It is obvious to me who is trying his best to listen to the other side and address the issues. The other side is so caught up in the court documents and the principle of exclusion that they are tone deaf to anything but that one principle. One is community oriented and believes in respectful beach enjoyment for all. The other wants exclusive rights and private enjoyment. All we have to do is read and educate ourselves on who has the higher purpose. I advise us all to engage in community activism now before we turn these beaches over to a few people who do not understand the value of public recreational use of this wonderful and limited resource.
 
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