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Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach Lover
526,505 views2
upload_2019-4-25_8-30-52.jpeg
When you see a PCB or Destin bumper sticker, what thought immediately comes to mind? Probably same for all of us with any time spent here - nice, but it ain’t 30A! Do you remember why you started renting/visiting here? What was it? Remember when you bought your first 30A property? Why here?
Because it was DIFFERENT, right? Remember the words you used to describe it to family and friends as you invited them here? “Private” “Quiet” “Intimate” “Less crowded”. That wasn’t by accident. The entire genetic code of Sowal beaches is because of the private ownership and neighborhood beach personalities.
You could rent “private beach”. You could buy “private beach”. There wasn’t a free for all frat party atmosphere because of unlimited public beach access on the sands. That behavior was regulated by the privately owned property where such behavior was immediately squelched. And yet, by custom, no one was ever “Kicked off” of private beaches because owners don’t do that unless bad actors abuse the privilege.
Walton County has always had more than 50% PUBLIC beach. Still does. That hasn’t changed. There are now deliberately misleading fear tactics out there with scary words like “Quiet Title” and “Privatization”, neither of which have affected one single square inch of public beach, not one. Yet, the mob mentality, orchestrated by local carnival barkers eager for fame and notoriety, and dollars, have mislead the citizens and deliberately tried to divide the community in a shell game of Customary Use.
The fact is that the county outran the capabilities of local Commissioners to plan for growth 20 years ago, and we haven’t improved that talent to deal with it even yet. So the County, in failing to plan beach availability, tried to illegally claim private property as public, without following the laws requiring judicial oversight. The local Good Ol’ Boys overreached their authority and got caught by the adults in Tallahassee. So they then decides to sue 4,800 of Sowal citizens to take their property. That’s right, your tax money is being spent, and a lot of it, to SUE almost 5,000 of your neighbors, and steal what they agreed to purchase at a premium, and have a deed to prove it.
Don’t blame them please, they didn’t want or ask for this fight. They live here and care for these beaches just like you and me. Go meet them, they are truly the eclectic fabric of 30A. The signs they had to put up are just in defense of this new orchestrated public attack against them.
The bottom line is this: The minute you release the public to occupy all of Sowal beaches, you IMMEDIATELY get nasty Destin and PCB problems. How will you feel about that 30A sticker then? Nostalgic? Me too.

03BC6F35-C70B-476E-8581-BDFB287ECF68.jpeg

Replies

2,312
Beach Fanatic
#1052
Good Will is the reason!
Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach LoverAuthor
#1053
Good Will and Sense of Community will be slow to return to the hearts of BPO’s who have been drug through the mud, personally attacked, unfairly disparaged in the public square. HOWEVER, those charitable gestures will be necessary. And, with the right leadership from within, it can be expedited. That leadership is readily available and willing when the timing is right.
Dave Rauschkolb avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1054
‘Teach your children well. That’s still a pretty universal sentiment these days isn’t it? Like all parents, we endeavor to give our rising-8th grader opportunities to grow and learn.

‘This Summer he’s helped with yard work in the neighborhood, saving his own money to buy an agility ladder to work on footwork to improve his basketball game. He’s set an alarm for 6 am to get down to the beach and work out. He’s walked from our Gulfview Heights neighborhood to the beach access he’s used year-round since we moved to Santa Rosa Beach when he was four years old. He picks a quiet spot by Draper Lake’s outflow and runs drills in the sand. And this weekend, a representative of The Retreat, with a “Private Property” sandwich board in hand, told him he had to leave.

‘That’s the story. Feel free to let it affect you however you’d like. Of course, as you can imagine, his father and I are beyond disappointed that anyone would discourage a kid from quietly getting some exercise on an empty beach at daybreak. Pretty much textbook definition of Customary Use that’s innocent and positive and not hurting a soul. In our estimation, the only souls in jeopardy are those who think running off a 12 year old (from an otherwise deserted beach) is a good choice.’

—Sarah Robertson
...
*Reposted with original poster’s express permission.
FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1055
"Teach your children well. That’s still a pretty universal sentiment these days isn’t it?"

Dave Rauschkolb, mputnal did not venture an answer to this question #1019, 1026; how about you?
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
FactorFiction has made the point multiple times and asked the questions on many occasions with no credible CU response.

How many of the 1,193 beachfront parcels are posting signs or fences on private beach or keep people off their private beachfront property? 597=50%? 298=25%? 12=1%. Less than 1%? What would/do you base your answer on? Anti-social media?

A reply that even one BFO is too many; is an emotional not-credible not relevant answer.
mputnal's reply; "I do not know the number but I assume the number will grow based on your posts and other BFO's." was a not a credible answer either. Just an uninformed opinion based on what? Like the Walton economy will be a ghost town without CU - but the TDC tourist tax data says otherwise.

There are at least 13 miles of PUBLIC beaches and 26 miles of Florida's 825 miles of public foreshore to workout on and enjoy. Yes?
Define the scope and credibility of this CU issue - or this is not a relevant legitimate issue - except to incite the public masses on social media.

Far from textbook of the legal definition of ancient English public customary use of private property. Did the BFO/BPO do anything wrong or illegal that if any other Walton property property owner did would be publicly called out for in the public forum like you have and just did? The court of public opinion will not not relevant in a legal due process court of law.
What about teaching children respect for other people's property - like you would want others to respect your private property that you own and pay property taxes on?

#998 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
"I teach my kids to respect others, respect the law and law enforcement, to stand up for your rights, don’t be taken advantage of, know the facts before you act, and be kind." What about CU believers too?

Edited

Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach LoverAuthor
#1056
‘Teach your children well. That’s still a pretty universal sentiment these days isn’t it? Like all parents, we endeavor to give our rising-8th grader opportunities to grow and learn.

‘This Summer he’s helped with yard work in the neighborhood, saving his own money to buy an agility ladder to work on footwork to improve his basketball game. He’s set an alarm for 6 am to get down to the beach and work out. He’s walked from our Gulfview Heights neighborhood to the beach access he’s used year-round since we moved to Santa Rosa Beach when he was four years old. He picks a quiet spot by Draper Lake’s outflow and runs drills in the sand. And this weekend, a representative of The Retreat, with a “Private Property” sandwich board in hand, told him he had to leave.

‘That’s the story. Feel free to let it affect you however you’d like. Of course, as you can imagine, his father and I are beyond disappointed that anyone would discourage a kid from quietly getting some exercise on an empty beach at daybreak. Pretty much textbook definition of Customary Use that’s innocent and positive and not hurting a soul. In our estimation, the only souls in jeopardy are those who think running off a 12 year old (from an otherwise deserted beach) is a good choice.’

—Sarah Robertson
...
*Reposted with original poster’s express permission.

Let's do just that, let's teach our children well;
Dave, Since you won’t ever answer direct questions, but feel compelled to carpet bomb social media with emotional stories... Let’s pretend we’re this boy’s parent. Here’s how that conversation and teaching might go...
=========================
Johnny, were you being rude or disrespectful? No? Good, because we’ve brought you up to respect others’ property.

Johnny, did you apologize for trespassing and introduce yourself with a handshake? Oh, well Johnny, we’ve taught you to be responsible for your actions, and treat others with respect. Maybe he would have invited you to stay and finish your workout if you acted politely and maturely.

Johnny, remember, this man has been attacked and vilified on social media just because of his address, he probably assumed you were there to attack him too.

Johnny, did you immediately leave private property when requested? Good!

Johnny, since the beach was deserted, as you said it was, did you continue your workout at the early morning “deserted” public access? No? Why not? Johnny, are you acting like a victimized, entitled brat? Are you using this man’s defensive posture against those attacking him and his property as an excuse to get out of your workout?
Get back down to the beach and find 20 square feet to use that ladder, now! While you’re at it, give me 50!

Johnny, you need to learn that just because you feel like you want to use something someone else has worked hard to purchase, you don’t have any right to it, by just coveting it and demanding it!

Johnny, this morning was a good lesson in property rights and how we all can work together. If we act properly, we can all get along and meet new friends along the way.
==============================
Disclaimer: I’m sure the real young man in this story didn’t blow off his workout, I just added that part in for entertainment value.

Edited

bob bob avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1057
Let's do just that, let's teach our children well;
Dave, Since you won’t ever answer direct questions, but feel compelled to carpet bomb social media with emotional stories... Let’s pretend we’re this boy’s parent. Here’s how that conversation and teaching might go...
=========================
Johnny, were you being rude or disrespectful? No? Good, because we’ve brought you up to respect others’ property.

Johnny, did you apologize for trespassing and introduce yourself with a handshake? Oh, well Johnny, we’ve taught you to be responsible for your actions, and treat others with respect. Maybe he would have invited you to stay and finish your workout if you acted politely and maturely.

Johnny, remember, this man has been attacked and vilified on social media just because of his address, he probably assumed you were there to attack him too.

Johnny, did you immediately leave private property when requested? Good!

Johnny, since the beach was deserted, as you said it was, did you continue your workout at the early morning “deserted” public access? No? Why not? Johnny, are you acting like a victimized, entitled brat? Are you using this man’s defensive posture against those attacking him and his property as an excuse to get out of your workout?
Get back down to the beach and find 20 square feet to use that ladder, now! While you’re at it, give me 50!

Johnny, you need to learn that just because you feel like you want to use something someone else has worked hard to purchase, you don’t have any right to it, by just coveting it and demanding it!

Johnny, this morning was a good lesson in property rights and how we all can work together. If we act properly, we can all get along and meet new friends along the way.
==============================
Disclaimer: I’m sure the real young man in this story didn’t blow off his workout, I just added that part in for entertainment value.
:doh:
Beach Fanatic
#1058
FBB I have answered your question and you have answered mine. My answer is "I do not know" the will of any BPO regarding if they will "share" their beach, if they will put up signs or barriers or only prevent "certain" people from sharing the beach. Your answer to my questions are that you know what is best for everyone based on a singular value. The more I read your posts the more I understand what you are about and it does not seem to have ANY room for good will. Please understand that I DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING so it comes down to my perspective of the words that you type. Since I do not know you my perspective may or may not be fair to you. The more you type the more I am compelled to not trust you with the "right of exclusion" relevant to and exclusive to the "beach". IMO words on both sides of this issue have been politicized and divisive. I noticed this first on the CU side but now you have confirmed that the property rights side of this issue does the same thing! Calling people socialist or entitled and on and on is the same thing that the other side does yet you feel justified. The truth is that one bad apple spoils a whole bunch and you are the same as the CU supporters who did that. You want me to answer an irrelevant question so I will ask you how many of the hundreds of thousands of beach goers has disrespected you? I bet the percentage is less than .1%! If either side cared more about community and less about the agenda to discredit the other side then we may get to a compromise before this goes to eminent domain. The more I read this thread the less inclined I am to believe that this will come down to a compromise. All I can say about that is that I hope that you do not represent ALL BPO's and there are values outside that which you have stated.

Reggie, I have changed my mind on BPO's having the right of exclusion. I think I was wrong to believe in this to be a compromise for The People. The more I read your post and others I now believe that BPO's are in a group that are limited in ability to be fair and equal. Go back and read the posts by FBB. FBB has NO use for community or government to "interfere" in his/her life. Yet the community and government gave you the legal right to build a structure on a natural sand dune and block the views of tens of thousands of people that would like to see those beautiful sunsets as easy as you do. It seems clear that people who are wealthy enough to build on the beach are very good at justifying their success in an economic system that is not equal to all people. Your "Johnny boy" example of how a parent should raise their child up with one set of values over all other values is eye opening. If my son is not hurting anyone then he has a right to that part of the "beach" behind your building. It does not have anything to do with customary use. It has everything to do with good will and fair and equal distribution of resources. I must conclude that you prefer everyone to be punished for using the beach behind your building. Naw I ain't going to trust you with raising my son, deciding what values are important or excluding people based on your values...
Beach Fanatic
#1059
FBB I have answered your question and you have answered mine. My answer is "I do not know" the will of any BPO regarding if they will "share" their beach, if they will put up signs or barriers or only prevent "certain" people from sharing the beach. Your answer to my questions are that you know what is best for everyone based on a singular value. The more I read your posts the more I understand what you are about and it does not seem to have ANY room for good will. Please understand that I DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING so it comes down to my perspective of the words that you type. Since I do not know you my perspective may or may not be fair to you. The more you type the more I am compelled to not trust you with the "right of exclusion" relevant to and exclusive to the "beach". IMO words on both sides of this issue have been politicized and divisive. I noticed this first on the CU side but now you have confirmed that the property rights side of this issue does the same thing! Calling people socialist or entitled and on and on is the same thing that the other side does yet you feel justified. The truth is that one bad apple spoils a whole bunch and you are the same as the CU supporters who did that. You want me to answer an irrelevant question so I will ask you how many of the hundreds of thousands of beach goers has disrespected you? I bet the percentage is less than .1%! If either side cared more about community and less about the agenda to discredit the other side then we may get to a compromise before this goes to eminent domain. The more I read this thread the less inclined I am to believe that this will come down to a compromise. All I can say about that is that I hope that you do not represent ALL BPO's and there are values outside that which you have stated.

Reggie, I have changed my mind on BPO's having the right of exclusion. I think I was wrong to believe in this to be a compromise for The People. The more I read your post and others I now believe that BPO's are in a group that are limited in ability to be fair and equal. Go back and read the posts by FBB. FBB has NO use for community or government to "interfere" in his/her life. Yet the community and government gave you the legal right to build a structure on a natural sand dune and block the views of tens of thousands of people that would like to see those beautiful sunsets as easy as you do. It seems clear that people who are wealthy enough to build on the beach are very good at justifying their success in an economic system that is not equal to all people. Your "Johnny boy" example of how a parent should raise their child up with one set of values over all other values is eye opening. If my son is not hurting anyone then he has a right to that part of the "beach" behind your building. It does not have anything to do with customary use. It has everything to do with good will and fair and equal distribution of resources. I must conclude that you prefer everyone to be punished for using the beach behind your building. Naw I ain't going to trust you with raising my son, deciding what values are important or excluding people based on your values...
From what I hear there is some very nasty chit going on. What you are seeing here is the con of polite veneer. It's all bs. Put it this way. There are plenty of beach front owners who would line the beach with bear traps and guns if they could.
FactorFiction avatar
Beach Fanatic
#10601
Sounds like the end of the road on this discussion. Sad. It looked so promising at one point.

Fear, Ignorance, Hate.jpg

Beach Fanatic
#1061
Bob1 I really hope you do not believe that! I do agree with you about the polite veneer though. It seems polite but when you get down to the organic part of it well it is starting to decompose!
bob bob avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1062
Several people called bs from the beginning. Very telling how these new forum members arrived together and started attacking good people. Then trying to disguise the bullying with a private property rights shield. The victimizers crying victim.
Beach Fanatic
#1063
From my perspective both sides attacked each other and just keep on attacking. Is it not obvious that there is bullying on both sides? There are good people on both sides and they are the real victims. I do not know how accurate a forum like this really is. I miss the days of community fish fries and community debates where everyone shook hands with sincere respect for each other. Oh, never mind I am dreaming again!
Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach LoverAuthor
#1064
From my perspective both sides attacked each other and just keep on attacking. Is it not obvious that there is bullying on both sides? There are good people on both sides and they are the real victims. I do not know how accurate a forum like this really is. I miss the days of community fish fries and community debates where everyone shook hands with sincere respect for each other. Oh, never mind I am dreaming again!

You just summed it up

Regardless of who's right or who's wrong, regardless of who wins or who loses;

The very process of this ridiculous public fight will guarantee that...
"Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy"
Beach Fanatic
#1065
You just summed it up

Regardless of who's right or who's wrong, regardless of who wins or who loses;

The very process of this ridiculous public fight will guarantee that...
"Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy"
What is " our 30a legacy"?
Beach Fanatic
#1066
Good question? Probably means different things to different people. My definition would be: A community of people dedicated to sharing a beautiful resource with an intent to preserve the natural beauty of that resource. If my definition is close it would mean that CU had nothing to do with destroying the 30A legacy. Too many people building on the dunes, too many people disrespecting the resource by leaving trash on the beach and too many people not respecting other people are what destroyed my definition of the 30A legacy. When this community first started there was a low density of buildings on the dunes and mostly single story piling foundation or block homes. You could drive down 30A and actually see the resource! Greed showed up and it all changed! Today 30A is simply a brand meaning come spend your money here and the more the better! I know I am dreaming again but wouldn't it be great if we could all find some common ground and stop this fighting. Maybe even work together to solve the problems and possibly learn more about each other so that we do not make so many assumptions? Both sides assume that the other side is the enemy. My grandmother use to tell me that it is easier to make an enemy than it is to make a friend. Boy, was she right!
Reggie Gaskins avatar
Beach LoverAuthor
#1067
What is " our 30a legacy"?
Simple answer: Read the initial post, page 1, that I wrote describing the entire concept, starting this thread.
Bottom line, we have focused on a fringe solution to just one of many problems. But before this manufactured noise, we all got along, even though private beaches haven’t changed in decades.
Would love for you to read it and comment.
Beach Fanatic
#1068
Simple answer: Read the initial post, page 1, that I wrote describing the entire concept, starting this thread.
Bottom line, we have focused on a fringe solution to just one of many problems. But before this manufactured noise, we all got along, even though private beaches haven’t changed in decades.
Would love for you to read it and comment.
Your OP doesn't answer my question. A lot of words with little clarity. Are you trying to say that the legacy is private beaches? If so that's ridiculous.

Whatever you are trying to say, it appears your OP is about a false notion that private beaches are the reason it is different here. Wrong. It was different and pristine and quiet here because of the unique ecosystem, protected lands and we were relatively unknown and off the beaten path.

Because there was hardly anyone here the beach got added to some deeds. A terrible mistake by people who either didn't know better or were conned. Now we are paying the piper.

BTW...
Anytime I hear someone refer to South Walton as 30A or see the sticker I know they are newcomers or tourists and probably know very little about our home.
Dave Rauschkolb avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1069
Your OP doesn't answer my question. A lot of words with little clarity. Are you trying to say that the legacy is private beaches? If so that's ridiculous.

Whatever you are trying to say, it appears your OP is about a false notion that private beaches are the reason it is different here. Wrong. It was different and pristine and quiet here because of the unique ecosystem, protected lands and we were relatively unknown and off the beaten path.

Because there was hardly anyone here the beach got added to some deeds. A terrible mistake by people who either didn't know better or were conned. Now we are paying the piper.

BTW...
Anytime I hear someone refer to South Walton as 30A or see the sticker I know they are newcomers or tourists and probably know very little about our home.


Funny, same word, "ridiculous" I used to respond to "Mr" whoever he or she is Gaskins hiding behind a fake name with no courage to step out into the sunshine. "Ridiculous"
jodiFL avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1070
....

BTW...
Anytime I hear someone refer to South Walton as 30A or see the sticker I know they are newcomers or tourists and probably know very little about our home.

I agree..30A is a road that goes through some very unique communities and landscape that is incomparable. But to others it is a status symbol. To me it is a traffic nightmare,one of the worst maintained roads in Walton County and I am so glad I moved off of it years ago. I still worry about the folks down there because all its going to take is one bad fire and as good as SWFD is I am afraid they wont be able to stop it because of all those wood houses being built within arms reach of each other. But the "keeping up with the Jones" folks have to have that little blue sticker (which most couldnt even tell you where the money from that sticker goes to) to show the world they were where the "cool people" are. If they only had the opportunity to meet the "cool people" before the hordes of people like them ran them all off to places that are more like the 30A area USED to be.
ShallowsNole avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1071
If you have never been to a street party that more or less closed down 30A in Seagrove Beach...if you've never fished from daybreak to dusk...if you haven't been through a hurricane that limited access to 30A for at least a week...and if you have never put your chair down and simply not have to worry about anyone else (I am being nice and leaving out the part about camping / spending the night on the beach)...it's safe to say that you have a different perspective on the "legacy"of 30A than I do. I still love the beach, but the 30A communities that I remember are gone forever.
bob bob avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1072
If you have never been to a street party that more or less closed down 30A in Seagrove Beach...if you've never fished from daybreak to dusk...if you haven't been through a hurricane that limited access to 30A for at least a week...and if you have never put your chair down and simply not have to worry about anyone else (I am being nice and leaving out the part about camping / spending the night on the beach)...it's safe to say that you have a different perspective on the "legacy"of 30A than I do. I still love the beach, but the 30A communities that I remember are gone forever.
And the nude beach!
jodiFL avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1073
And the nude beach!
Which one? :yikes:
FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1074
I used to respond to "Mr" whoever he or she is Gaskins hiding behind a fake name with no courage to step out into the sunshine. "Ridiculous"

Dave Rauschkolb, you have a short memory and limited not-credible not-relevant set of CU responses. About as relevant as a streaker at a football game. Are you game?
#1042 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

#205 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Reggie Gaskins: "Dave, if it’s that important and you’re so interested in meeting me, getting to know me, understanding who I am... let’s meet in a public discussion/forum in the Seaside Amphitheater with a table & microphones. 1 1/2 hours, You and me, and the public. I’ll bring crackers and cheeses, and drinks. You just show up. Let’s have a public discussion with civil discourse, for once. You game?"

"Headed to the beach.... hope to see ya there. Cuz I bet I won’t see ya at Seaside Amphitheater anytime soon."

#209 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Reggie Gaskins. "So Dave refuses to have an open discussion where he cannot control the audience or message. I can understand why." Me and most BFO/BPO understand too.

#219 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Reggie Gaskins. "So Dave refuses to meet in public forum to have an adult discussion to help heal our community."
Walton Watchdog

#203 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
FBB. "Why would anyone much less beachfront owners want to identify and subject themselves to the anti-social media vitriol, not publicly by you individually, and risk having Daniel Uhlfelder or others inspired by "Your sand is my sand" baseless misinformation, intentionally come pick a fight with beachfront owners and law enforcement like at Viscaya?"
"Does the identity of the author change the verifiable facts?"
Beach Lover
#1075
Dave Rauschkolb, you have a short memory and limited not-credible not-relevant set of CU responses. About as relevant as a streaker at a football game. Are you game?
#1042 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

#205 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Reggie Gaskins: "Dave, if it’s that important and you’re so interested in meeting me, getting to know me, understanding who I am... let’s meet in a public discussion/forum in the Seaside Amphitheater with a table & microphones. 1 1/2 hours, You and me, and the public. I’ll bring crackers and cheeses, and drinks. You just show up. Let’s have a public discussion with civil discourse, for once. You game?"

"Headed to the beach.... hope to see ya there. Cuz I bet I won’t see ya at Seaside Amphitheater anytime soon."

#209 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Reggie Gaskins. "So Dave refuses to have an open discussion where he cannot control the audience or message. I can understand why." Me and most BFO/BPO understand too.

#219 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Reggie Gaskins. "So Dave refuses to meet in public forum to have an adult discussion to help heal our community."
Walton Watchdog

#203 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
FBB. "Why would anyone much less beachfront owners want to identify and subject themselves to the anti-social media vitriol, not publicly by you individually, and risk having Daniel Uhlfelder or others inspired by "Your sand is my sand" baseless misinformation, intentionally come pick a fight with beachfront owners and law enforcement like at Viscaya?"
"Does the identity of the author change the verifiable facts?"
Creepy :creepy:
FloridaBeachBum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#1076
Correction. To ease EZ imagination.
Dave Rauschkolb, you have a short memory and limited not-credible not-relevant set of CU responses. About as relevant as a streaker at a football game.
#1042 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

#205 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Reggie Gaskins: "Dave, if it’s that important and you’re so interested in meeting me, getting to know me, understanding who I am... let’s meet in a public discussion/forum in the Seaside Amphitheater with a table & microphones. 1 1/2 hours, You and me, and the public. I’ll bring crackers and cheeses, and drinks. You just show up. Let’s have a public discussion with civil discourse, for once. You game?" Are you game? I'd pay money to see that.

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