Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    The more I read these posts the more I am convinced that both sides of the CU/Property Rights issue are too politicized. It is more about the principles involved in your beliefs than it is about your community. Of course it is not surprising that people are self motivated because it is human but the extent to which both sides are willing to damage the greater good (humanity) is very revealing. The agenda is to prove how RIGHT you are to have your opinion or belief AND to discredit/disrespect the other side. We no longer have great leaders in our communities that understand why it is vital to bridge divisions between competing interests. I have literally gone back and forth on the issue about what is RIGHT not about what I think right should be on this subject. The only fact that I believe to be correct here is that we have a problem of behavior in this community. BFO's are not behaving well IMHO. CU activists are not behaving well IMHO. Beach goers are not behaving well IMHO. Local government needed a good leader to bridge this divide but it didn't happen. I am not saying that that local government is not capable but for whatever reason they got it wrong and now we have an expensive lawsuit. This really should have been about our community and the problems that we have but it now has escalated ad nauseum into principle. Kind of like our politics...
     
  2. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Sweep that "one" what? That Scenic Sotheby's SRB office did not "really" mean ECAR leadership should remain neutral on CU of private property the Commissioners discussed as far back as 2007; that many think has been the most divisive South Walton political issue ever?

    Do not even get me started on the legal evidentiary admissibility of the CU "affidavits". Even if there are a million affidavits.
    "Technical requirements for a sworn statement are critical but often not met. The mere signing of a statement in the presence of a notary, or a notary’s placement of an “acknowledgment” on a statement, does not constitute a sworn statement or affidavit."
    I do not think you have to be an attorney to recognize the legal admissibility factual problems with the CU "affidavits".
     
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  3. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    The silence is deafening.
     
  4. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    FBB I believe that you are sincere in wanting to have a conversation. Am I Right? If so then please allow me to take a stab at your question. Of course my perspective will be different than yours because I do not own beach front property. So my answer is: As long as I am respectful to other humans I have a human right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That is the only reason we have a Constitution! The legal intention of the US Constitution is to serve that purpose. The truth of the matter is that many beach front property owners built structures that block the view of a natural resource that everyone has a right to whether it is with the sense of human sight or touch. Our legal system allowed you do block the views and possibly damage that resource for the rest of us so you now have the "opportunity" to relax your legal right to keep people off your property. If I were you I would argue that it is not about keeping people out but rather if the local government had the right to "take" your property and give it to people who do not pay taxes on the property and sometimes do not respect you or the property. The fact that people do not behave respectfully is obviously confirmed in this forum and is also a truth. It seems like we have two competing truths in terms of "rights". Human rights versus Legal rights. If you believe only in legal rights then you are missing a bigger truth. You do not have to participate in the bigger truth but I believe it is the right thing to do and "settle" the lawsuit with local government. I want to believe that we have good people in local government and they will also do the right thing. Okay I can hear the laughter but what other choices do you have? If you win this battle you may lose the war. I hope you understand that I respect your property rights and I am just trying to have a conversation about how to solve problems with respect and truth. I agree with you that some CU activist have lost sight of respect and truth but you are doing the same thing with the purpose of life. When communities fall apart over things like this it is the be the beginning of the end of truth!
     
  5. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    I knew Sotheby’s was international but it now has a Bethlehem branch?
     
  6. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    Daniel Uhlfelder along with Dave Rauschkolb IS Florida Beaches For All.

    Yes, it is.

    What’s worse - intentional mistruths or the silence when called out on them?
     
  7. leeboy

    leeboy Beach Lover

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    The constant bullying is worse than silence. I'm sure thoughtful people know better than to engage with bullies.

    As part of the large majorities on both sides of this issue let me remind all that the vocal minority are not representative of the majorities' views. Most beachfront owners want to share the beach as long as people are respectful of the environment and rules. Most beach lovers want to enjoy the beach in peace and leave it in good shape and not bother anyone.
     
  8. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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    And another lie from someone who calls everyone else a liar. Mr. Uhlfelder is our legal counsel; that is all he has ever been regarding his association with Florida Beaches For All. We appreciate his time and dedication in working towards guaranteeing our beaches may be used by all people, excluding no one.
     
  9. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    Assuming your premise is correct, if I were the chairman of an organization whose dedicated legal counsel acts in a manner that publicly jeopardizes the reputation of that organization, I would immediately fire him/her.

    Or that chairman can have it both ways....hypocrisy.

    You never denied that Daniel Uhlfelder intentionally harassed private property owners nor have you condemned his use of the Nazi / BFO analogy.
     
  10. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    Interesting comment considering that “most beachfront owners” have filed motion to intervene. It may have “used” to seem that way but when someone feels entitled to come to your party, well, you stop inviting them.
     
  11. Tyler T

    Tyler T Beach Lover

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    We get it! This is personal for you and you have an issue with Ufelder. Why not try settling it face to face? Only a complete wuss would hide behind a keyboard and post about him all day every day. And It's a really bad look for beachfront owners. You are not doing your people any favors. You represent them as poorly as you think Ufelder represents customary users. Just an observation from a neutral party. I don't own beachfront but I sympathize with owners who have people behave porrly on the beach but there are ways to deal with that besides attacking a couple of the opposition people online. Losing all my respect.
     
  12. leeboy

    leeboy Beach Lover

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    I have no idea what you are saying.
     
  13. Auburn Fan

    Auburn Fan Beach Lover

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    Defuniak Herald
    August 29, 2019
    By DOTTY NIST

    "Florida Beaches for All, a newly-formed nonprofit organization, has set the goal of preserving and perpetuating the doctrine of customary use of the beach in Florida and “all of coastal America,” according to the group’s mission statement.

    Led by Walton County residents, business people and property owners, the new organization hosted its first public meeting on Aug. 23 at the O’Donnell Eye Institute office in Santa Rosa Beach, with approximately 80 people in attendance.

    Florida Beaches for All officers include: Tonia Shatzel, chairwoman, a retired veterinarian who grew up on Florida beaches and currently resides in Santa Rosa Beach; John Reichenbach, vice-chairman and treasurer, a retired commercial banker and Seagrove resident since 2016; Pete Foley, secretary, president of a business consultancy focusing on communication strategy and business writing and a south Walton County property owner for over 20 years.

    The Florida Beaches for All leadership team includes: Grayton Beach attorney and south Walton County resident Daniel Uhlfelder; and Santa Rosa Beach resident Rob Wood, an entrepreneur, author, artist and speaker with a variety of experience in the field of business.

    Organization board members include: Liz McMaster, a realtor specializing in gulf-front properties and president of the Emerald Coast Association of Realtors; and Dave Rauschkolb, a resident of south Walton County for over 30 years and owner of three restaurants in Seaside.

    The formation of the organization comes in the midst of Walton County’s efforts to affirm a right by the public to customary recreational use of the beach. This is in the wake of HB 631, new state legislation that negated the county’s customary use ordinance as of July 1.

    The county is following steps set forth in the legislation to reaffirm customary use on the beaches, with those steps to include the Walton County Board of County Commissioners (BCC) considering the adoption of a notice of intent and a new customary use ordinance at a 9 a.m. Sept. 8 public hearing at South Walton High School. A court complaint process will also be required.

    Introduced at the Aug. 23 meeting by Keith Dean, CEO for the Emerald Coast Association of Realtors, Florida Beaches for All President Tonia Shatzel commented that customary use is not a partisan issue but, “an issue of right or wrong.”
     
  14. Auburn Fan

    Auburn Fan Beach Lover

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    Concerned Citizens Organize to Restore Customary Use in Walton County

    Screenshot_20190625_122422.jpg
     
  15. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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    Mr. Uhlfelder broke no laws, he asked law-enforcement to show him where the mean high tide water line was. You translate that into harassment but nobody believes you except you and a handful of Private Beach front activists. If you’ve got something on Mr. Uhlfelder you would’ve already acted on it but you got nothing, nada, zip. Mr. Uhlfelder went to the beach on his own. Can you show me where the mean high tide waterline is on your property? I bet you can’t. If he went back to the same beach he could stand in the wet sand and nobody could do anything about it.

    I would have to agree with the recent poster that says you and a few others here are doing a disservice to your fellow beachfront owners with your vindictiveness and personal vendettas. I really don’t know what you hope to accomplish but you’re certainly not “winning hearts and minds.” Those of us who are committed to public beaches for all are not going anywhere and we are in this for the long-haul. If one drops out another one will replace us. You may think we are wasting our time trying to restore our beaches to public use well, I think you’re wasting your time trying to stop us.

    And I won’t tumble in the gutter ever with you or any one else. We take the high road. That’s why I don’t respond to a lot of this circular poking and prodding. To those who will pick and dissect every word, I really don’t care. I stand by my words as myself and again, none of you can say that by remaining anonymous on this thread. Everything I’ve written and is published is what I believe to my core and I know with certainty that I represent the viewpoint of a very many people. Throw up whatever you like, I believe our beaches have been shared for centuries regardless of ownership and it distills right down to that point. Those higher than us will decide. I don’t know how many other ways I can say the same thing and I will continue to repeat it because I believe it to be true.

    We disagree but there are many beachfront owners who I disagree with but we are still friends. Heck one of my very best friends represents a large number of Beach front owners. We rarely even discuss it.

    This is still America where dissenting views on pretty much anything are completely allowed. I disagree with you and others but I don’t hate you and I would never dream of verbally attacking you personally or any other beachfront owner. You have nothing to fear from me that’s for sure because I’m about the nicest most generous person you could ever meet. But, one thing you do have to fear is that we could win. We are certainly not giving up.

    As I said in the article published this week in the newspapers the beach is a different kind of private property. I mentioned in an earlier post the possibility of solving this issue. Perhaps stiffer rules within 1000 feet of County beach front accesses governing who can do what and when and to what extent. Perhaps no one’s allowed on the beach at night except for chasing ghost crabs I don’t know. I believe most of the people who are pushing private beaches own near beach accesses. I believe most people who own homes in interior areas really don’t care because they don’t have crowds near their home. That’s the only solution I can think of to stop this madness. The other areas should be open to public use from the dune line to the waterline with no restrictions except for existing laws. Come together, set some rules and enforcement that addressed the “behavior”, end the lawsuit, take down the signs and reset our community. Do I think for a second that all of you would agree to that? I doubt it very seriously.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  16. James Bentwood

    James Bentwood Beach Fanatic

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    Sounds like a plan.
     
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  17. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Dave Rauschkolb, words determines one’s credibility and believably.
    I understand it is futile and no one will change your mind or the mass of others who believe in CU, not just in Walton County but now in the USA.

    The question on this thread has been what credible basis do you and the Commissioners believe that warrants spending many millions of Walton tax payers dollars and maybe get nothing but 650+ Defendant beachfront parcel BFO’s 33 attorney legal fees, 34 if you count Daniel Ulhfelder’s Defendant legal representation. The “law of the sand” is not a real law. We understand FBFA intent is to incite the masses to influence change on private beach in the USA on the scale of the 60’s civil rights movement.

    We want other BFOs and property right believers to know not to fret too much; that your CU beliefs likely has no legal basis; here are the facts, the law, here is facts why CU antisocial media is wrong about quiet title, FS163.035 (HB631) myths, etc, and that the social media masses’ “might” does not make right, in the courts. For BFOs should stand firm because BFOs have 33 of the most experienced legal minds in Florida working together to defend and intervene for property rights that Commissioners want to take on the basis of an arcane English common law of public customary use of private property in the USA. No one should believe you or me or anyone else but consider the facts and the law. So far you have offered neither.

    So about credibility; “Mr. Uhlfelder is our legal counsel; that is all he has ever been regarding his association with Florida Beaches For All.

    If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck? It’s a duck.
    Florida Divisions of Corporations, Home Page, were Florida Beaches for All, Inc is registered as a legal Florida corporate entity.

    The FL Sunbiz “Principle Address” where FBFA, Inc legally exists is:
    124 EAST COUNTY HIGHWAY 30A
    SANTA ROSA BEACH, FL 32459

    Daniel Uhfelder law business address is
    124 E County Hwy 30A, Santa Rosa Beach, FL 32459 and is the legal residence where Florida Beaches for All, Inc. conducts it’s business.

    Others in the media have already established that Daniel Uhlfelder has acted as a representative for FBFA even if Uhlfeld may not be officially a FBFA member as you claim; but Daniel W. Uhlfelder looks like a FBFA representative with the FBFA legal Principle address registered to Uhlfelder’s office address, walks like a FBFA representative in court, and quacks like a FBFA representative in social and local media as a private and professional representative for FBFA. Then Daniel Uhlfelder is an representative and member of FBFA, Inc. and his actions and credibility reflect on FBFA and the CU “cause” with his CU misinformation , just like yours does.

    Do you really think your are really fooling anyone with your word ruse? The social media masses? BFOs? That “Mr. Uhlfelder is our legal counsel; that is all he has ever been regarding his association with Florida Beaches For All.” is NOT credible.

    #909. Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy . Good diversion about Uhlfelder representation with FBFA but you did not answer the question that also goes to your credibility, and lets leave out the FBFA affiliation; Do you deny attorney Daniel Uhlfelder intentionally trespassed on Vizcaya private property on multiple near-consecutive days then posted it on social media was not planned (staged)?
    The Deputies told Uhlfelder he was on private property the first time he trespassed, he “feared" he would be arrested, yet trespassed again, Vizcaya's legal plat and public pedestrian easement to the foreshore has been post on this thread, Walton Beach Director BCC video was heard to say many (including Vizcaya) easements are on PRIVATE property and the Commissioners, TDC, and public have NO rights to occupy Vizcaya private property”.

    Here’s another simple credibility question; Is there any 30A businesses in Seaside, other than the Seaside Developer and Seaside HOAs that are “beachfront” owners with a real-property legal interest to intervene in Commissioners’ CU litigation? Use the County’s dry-beach definition – toe of the dune to the MHWL.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2019
  18. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Dave, how do you find time for all this media , family time, binge watch TV, and run multi-million dollar business at the peak of the Summer season? Quite a lot to cover. Let’s talk about words and believably for BFOs out there.

    Mr. Uhlfelder broke no laws [Daniel did break the law by trespassing on Vizcaya private property multiple times. Only after a warning and the grace of the Deputies was Uhlfelder not arrested for breaking the law. There is a difference between not breaking the law and not being arrested.], he asked law-enforcement to show him where the mean high tide water line was [no Uhlfelder asked where the Sheriff’s defined wet-sand line, not the Florida legal MHWL property boundary was].

    You translate that into harassment [of a private property owner and law enforcement] but nobody believes you except you and a handful of Private Beach front activists [You are calling ANY BFOs ACTIVISTS? Wrong but keep repeating that to yourself and CU antisocial media].

    If you’ve got something on Mr. Uhlfelder you would’ve already acted on it but you got nothing, nada, zip [If I was Vizcaya HOA I would have made a civil trespass charge - pretty much an open and shut case with the FB video. Wonder what the statue of limitations are?]. Mr. Uhlfelder went to the beach on his own [No he did not, he had his social media camera man there too and FBFA and other CU social media were only too eager to post].

    Can you show me where the mean high tide waterline is on your property [YES and the survey monuments too as can many BFOs thanks to the Sheriff’s 2015 Trespass SOP. Survey updated annually or more]? I bet you can’t [How much? $15,000,000?].

    If he [Ulhfelder] went back to the same [Vizcaya private] beach he could stand in the wet sand and nobody could do anything about it [except Uhlfelder was NOT in the wet sand. He was on Private property dry sand, was asked to leave, refused until threaten with arrest, and taunted the Deputies!].

    I would have to agree with the recent poster that says you and a few others here are doing a disservice to your fellow beachfront owners with your vindictiveness and personal vendettas [so you don’t agree with the others, just on this thread, who criticize your and others CU name calling? Shall I list the name calling again?].

    I really don’t know what you hope to accomplish but you’re certainly not “winning hearts and minds.” [Not trying to; just provide the facts for reasonable people who want to know the credible information to make informed decisions.]
    Those of us who are committed to public beaches for all are not going anywhere and we are in this for the long-haul [Ditto for BFOs. The Commissioners are the ones trying to “take” property]. If one drops out another one will replace us [Like Hydra on the Avengers movie - cute].

    You may think we are wasting our time trying to restore our beaches to public use well, I think you’re wasting your time trying to stop us [BFOs are the Defendants with all property rights today, Commissioners and Florida Beaches for attorneys have the burden of proof to show private customary use of private property (CU) is superior to US Constitutionally protected property rights. But the Walton tax payer pays millions regardless and if BFOs prevail; you/FBFA and the Commissioners will not be very popular with the tax payers I’m guessing].

    And I won’t tumble in the gutter ever with you or any one else. We [are you including your CU posse on this thread?] take the high road [like go pound sand?! #239 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy]. That’s why I don’t respond to a lot of this circular poking and prodding [it’s circular because BFOs ask hard CU questions and you respond with in-credible rhetoric, questions asked, in-credible rhetoric ...]. To those who will pick and dissect every word, I really don’t care [because words don’t matter?; especially when credibility is needed].

    I stand by my words as myself and again, none of you can say that by remaining anonymous on this thread [does a pseudonym name, not anonymous, change the facts or the law? Besides why would any BFO want to subject themselves to the antisocial media vitriol and fake police reports you submitted on James Lince (discussed previously) and the physical harassment like on the Vizcaya and the Goodwins private properties?].

    Everything I’ve written and is published is what I believe to my core [but what is your CU believe based on? The law? What facts?] and I know with certainty that I represent the viewpoint of a very many people [might makes Right; right?]. Throw up whatever you like, I believe our beaches [1,193 other beachfront parcels legally not yours unless you can prove it in court first] have been shared for centuries [I thought it was from time immemorial? Hundreds of years is not the legal criteria for CU. I’d like to see you try to enter Topsal State Park without paying the public fee, just tell the ranger you think it’s “shared” property and you don’t have to pay for beach access. Even the US Government and Eglin AFB does not “share” it’s “publicly owned” beaches on Okaloosa Island. I’d like to see “Stand Your Sand” west of Okaloosa Island, Santa Rosa Blvd south of Hurlburt, on Eglin AFB beaches!] regardless of ownership and it distills right down to that point.

    Those higher than us will decide. I don’t know how many other ways I can say the same thing and I will continue to repeat it because I believe it to be true [Why? And me and others will continue to point out your baseless beliefs with the facts and law.]

    We disagree but there are many beachfront owners who I disagree with but we are still friends. Heck one of my very best friends represents a large number of Beach front owners. We rarely even discuss it [He (DP) better Never discuss CU legal issues with you as a BFO Defendant attorney and you are not his client].

    This is still America where dissenting views on pretty much anything are completely allowed [Free speech is a Constitutional right, as a judge rules that it is a beachfront owner right to place a sign on their private property. But why would anyone believe the views if you can’t back the views up with facts?]. I disagree with you and others but I don’t hate you and I would never dream of verbally attacking you personally or any other beachfront owner. You have nothing to fear from me that’s for sure because I’m about the nicest most generous person you could ever meet.

    But, one thing you do have to fear is that we could win [BFOs don’t fear your social media campaign (don't like the shaming), FBFA, or the Commissioners. BFOs had 84% of the 2018 Florida legislature support BFO property rights due process. The Commissioners, you, and the Walton tax payers have more to fear because you may get nothing but the current legal property-rights status-quo and a multi-million dollar BFO legal bill]. We are certainly not giving up. [Nor are BFOs. Given the conservative courts all the way to the US Supreme Court. Let’s do it.]

    As I said in the article published this week in the newspapers the beach is a different kind of private property [so is Mountain private property, Desert private property, River private property, Farm land private property ... US property laws and US Constitution are the same - just because beachfront is the most desirable private property does not make the property rights any different under the Constitution].

    I mentioned in an earlier post the possibility of solving this issue. Perhaps stiffer rules within 1000 feet of County beach front accesses governing who can do what and when and to what extent. Perhaps no one’s allowed on the beach at night except for chasing ghost crabs I don’t know [makes no difference if the laws are not enforced].

    I believe most of the people who are pushing private beaches own near beach accesses [wrong again; 650+ BF parcel owners, including Seaside, are pushing to intervene for their property rights to the MHWL - but public beach accesses is where the least respectful public occupation of private property occurs]. I believe most people who own homes in interior areas really don’t care because they don’t have crowds near their home [Wrong again].

    That’s the only solution I can think of to stop this madness [only solution because you do not respect legal beachfront private property rights]. The other areas should be open to public use from the dune line to the waterline with no restrictions except for existing laws [Of course it should, you have no real-property skin in the game].

    Come together, set some rules and enforcement that addressed the “behavior” [that is ALREADY the Commissioners and TDC duty to do! There has been for decades and is a Walton beach ordinance. Education and enforcement would help - but addressing pubic behavior is already the Commissioners’ duty to do], end the lawsuit, [how about publicly tell people to stop the antisocial media misinformation and BFO shaming and name calling? It's disrespectful and antagonistic] take down the signs [how do you reduce the public supply and beach demand problem? More TDC advertising that benefits mostly 30A beach-view businesses? Then signs may not be needed] and reset our community [Commissioners and CU in-credible misinformation purveyors have already drawn a CU MHW-line in the sand with the first 2017 CU ordinance and current CU litigation]. Do I think for a second that all of you would agree to that? I doubt it very seriously. [Ditto, back at you!]

    Eglin AFB beaches Google Maps
     
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  19. bob bob

    bob bob Beach Fanatic

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    This thread has become nothing but an attack on 2 SoWal citizens, one of whom is not here to defend himself, and should probably be deleted.
     
  20. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    Unbelievably spot-on and accurate post / reply from @FloridaBeachBum . Saved me a lot of time so I can continue working on my hole in the water.

    However, I will also commend Dave boy on his ability to deflect, a master deflector at that.

    1. Dave clearly states that FBFA did not harass anyone. From Dave, “To say that Florida beaches for all has had anything to do with harassing anyone is ridiculous.”

    2. It has been established that Daniel Uhlfelder, beyond any doubt, is as much or more representative of FBFA as anyone else affiliated with that organization.

    3. Daniel Uhlfelder documents and publishes his own harassment of private citizens as well as the sheriff’s department plain as day for all to see.

    4. Without a doubt, it is deduced that FBFA was involved with harassing citizens. Dave does not want FBFA’s reputation to be tarnished, professing to take the high road.

    5. Dave THEN states, “Mr. Uhlfelder broke no laws, he asked law-enforcement to show him where the mean high ....”, as if that somehow negates Uhlfelder’s harassment actions (the deflection).

    AND the fact is Daniel Uhlfelder actually DID BREAK THE LAW which was so eloquently documented by @FloridaBeachBum’s recent post and documented via Uhlfelder’s cinematic presentation. I thought the exact same thing about before I even read @FloridaBeachBum’s post.

    I don’t know who was luckier that Uhlfelder was not arrested for trespassing - Uhlfelder for obvious reasons or BFOs for not having the sherrrriff’s department elevate Uhlfelder to martyr status in the eyes of CU folks. I don’t envy the sherrriff’s duties especially with people like Uhlfelder stirring up this mess even further.

    Dave boy still refuses to admit any inconvenient truths. IMHO he elects to take his self perceived CU high road by trying to throw everything emotional at it that will stick, at least in the minds that “want to believe, regardless”.
     

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