Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,195
    Likes Received:
    136
    You got that right, especially when he brought up the Nazi analogy. But it should be for everyone else who has any sense of decency. Some things I don’t dismiss as easily as others might.
     
  2. Tyler T

    Tyler T Beach Lover

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    17
    There are things actual Nazis have said (and done) that you should be able to forgive. Or at least overlook. To continually bring it up says more about you than him.
     
  3. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    902
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    Vindictiveness, vitriol and vendettas. And more mischaracterizations and lies than I can count. I stand by every word I’ve said. Adios again.
     
  4. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2018
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    64
    Location:
    Blue Mountain Beach
    After following a very long thread below, it becomes obvious. Attacking and suing private property owners isn't going to work. Nor or they the problem, they're being scapegoated. Attacking CU activists isn't going to work. Nor are they the solution, too narrow issue focused and combative with personal agendas, creating additional problems.

    So, let's look, What are the problems?
    1). There are exponentially more new visitors to limited amount of beach
    2). County has failed to purchase public beach to keep up with TDC promotion/demand
    3). The available public beaches are blocked by commercial chairs
    4). There is little to no communication to visitors on available public access and beach
    5). There is conflicting information being published and broadcast to all audiences
    6). Private beach owners are increasingly exercising their right of exclusion

    That's it, nothing more, nothing less.

    1). Can't do anything about #1, horse has left the barn.

    2). Spend the $50 million they are about to spend suing citizens, on purchasing public beach parcels. Problem solved.

    3). BCC is pretending to address. Need an immediate and total ban on unoccupied chairs on public beaches, yesterday. Problem solved

    4). Spend TDC available cash on mandatory 1 page trifold: maps, beach rules, and public service info to be distributed at each rental. Include turtle info while at it.

    5). Focus on these easy and immediate solutions. Promote the positive action publicly. Demonstrate public leadership for a change. The immediate improvement and elimination of the problem will mute the noisemakers. The Beach Property Owners will relax as the attackers go away. We get back enjoying why we're here. This problem goes away.

    6). Once the attacks and noise go away, and the videos and defamation stops, the signs and ropes go back into storage. Just like before.

    It really IS THAT SIMPLE. We just don't have the capable local leaders to drive it. It's time that maybe some of our distinguishedand credible national business leaders who have homes here might lend a hand by driving this coalition? I can think of a few.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • List
  5. L.C. Bane

    L.C. Bane Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    66
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    7). BFO's out bidding the county to block additional public beach.

    8). Everyone building monster houses to increase occupancy for rentals.

    9). Code enforcement.

    10). Sense of entitlement and lack of respect by all.

    11). Lack of adequate infrastruture.


    The TDC is only part of the problem. Nobody is required to rent out their house. Nobody is required to advertise as being able to sleep 20.

    BFO's need to take some ownership to blocking the county including beach clean up as a legal maneuver.

    Ropes, chains, signs, vendors and bad behavior (all parties) were an accelerent.

    Code enforcement needs to be fortified.

    Without bad and reactionary behavior we probably wouldn't be in this mess. Can't regulate this.

    Inadequate parking and access. If you are strolling the beach, how are you suppose to know what is private vs. public? Some public is virtually land locked.

    You can make your way down a public access and take a few steps to the side and boom, you are now considerered a trespasser.

    Rental companies and realtors need take ownership of being part of the problem as well.

    The bottom line is cash flow. Not to get off topic but this is relevent. The area (public and private sector) needs revenue outside of tourism and housing/construction.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Best Post Ever Best Post Ever x 1
    • List
  6. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,799
    Likes Received:
    684
    #7 is spot on. Quit bidding against the county and more public beach is available. Seems that has occurred a couple of times.
     
  7. Emerald Drifter

    Emerald Drifter Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    100
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    Great points Sowal Al and LC Bane.

    Something happened in a recent US Supreme Court decision that may just accelerate a "final" decision sooner rather than later on CU. And, IMO, it does not bode well for the county and it's non-BFO residents and visitors. Basically, the ruling says that now property owners do not have to first go through the respective state courts and then go to federal courts regarding property cases. Property owners can now go directly to federal court. (You can be sure that BFOs and their attorneys are discussing this)

    Supreme Court Overturns Precedent In Property Rights Case. A Sign Of Things To Come?

    Excerpt:

    On Friday, however, the U.S. Supreme Court reversed the first of those decisions, a 1985 ruling that required property owners to take their complaints to the state courts first. Instead, the court majority said Knick and other property owners seeking compensation for limits on their property rights may go directly to federal court.


    "We now conclude that the state litigation requirement imposes an unjustifiable burden" on a property owner's claim that his or her land has been effectively taken for public benefit without the government paying just compensation, wrote Chief Justice John Roberts.

    So to your point 2, Sowal Al, about saving the $50MM and using the funds to BUY beachfront. I totally agree. Its not too late for the county to try and strike a deal with BFOs. It could be something simple like 10-20 (this will be negotiated) feet from the wet sand may be used by the public only. No commercial vending. County can (and wont) deal with the vendors on public beaches another day.

    IMO if the county continues to push for all or nothing, we may very well end up with nothing backed up by a federal court ruling....

    For the record, I am not a BFO and use public beach accesses frequently. When I walk my dog on the beach, he is always on a leash, and I pick up after him. I am not afraid to confront dog owners who let their dogs run wild and don't pick up after them. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  8. FactorFiction

    FactorFiction Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    164
    It will take a lot of public input for the BCC to look for solutions other than the lawsuit at this point, especially with the prevalent "no compromise" attitudes that prevail with the most vocal contingents. I believe that a beach share type program would have worked with enough education and enforcement, but neither of those occurred in a sufficient way during the CU Ordinance to convince anyone that a beach share program could actually be successful. When the County decides to make some hard decisions about beach vending and the growing problem of density, coupled with tent cities and beach spreading, we might have a chance of sharing again.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. jodiFL

    jodiFL Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    452
    Location:
    SOWAL,FL
    The court overturning precedent in that case could be just the tip of the iceberg and the property rights issue will be small potatoes if they decide they can overrule precedent in other cases (i.e. Roe vs.Wade and others). We have hundreds of years of precedent that could just be GONE in the blink of an eye because a few justices decide they know better than all those before them how the law should be decided/interpreted.
     
  10. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    I disagree. It is too late for Commissioners to strike any deal with BFOs. The Commissioners CU MHW-Line in the sand has been drawn. Significant BFO CU legal fees have accumulated already. Me and many BFOs are angry about the antisocial media shaming, the Commissioners' war on property rights, and any deal - I do not trust them as far as I can throw them. The only "deal" for me and many BFOs is to respect private property rights BFOs have had since 1776 and have today and enforce the laws to the legal property boundaries. "It really is that simple." The public has 825 miles of Florida foreshore to share forever. Any public dry sand "easement", much less 10 or 20 feet from the water, is not a compromise for not litigation public CU of private property and a non-starter for many BFOs.

    "I agree about one thing the Commissioners have politically boxed themselves into a corner, antisocial media have repeated over and over (intentionally?) false property rights and CU misinformation, the time to "compromise" is past, and the best solution at this time is for a court to determine if Walton BFO's private property rights are superior to an anarchic English common law public customary use of American private property or not; based on the evidence and law. Which does not include CU or no-CU effect on the local economy." #888 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2019
  11. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    902
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    Monday July 1, Main gathering at Ed Walline County Beach Access; or any Walton County owned public beach. Stand in the wet sand with your backs to the water and join hands for 10 minutes at 12:00 pm to celebrate the shared history of our beaches in Walton County; Customary Use. Be respectful, have fun. A peaceful gathering of friends, family, kids

    . 65175754_1572032586260604_900596346380091392_n.jpg
     
  12. Emerald Drifter

    Emerald Drifter Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    100
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    Sorry you have so much anger that you have abandoned the ability to see a way to a win-win.

    Sowal Al started a great thread where I HOPE people will offer their idea of SOLUTIONS, at least on this thread.

    I hold to the belief that SoWal can be a harmonious place again. I mean, what is the approximate number of summers any of us have left on Earth and do you want to spend them stressed out about all this?
     
  13. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,195
    Likes Received:
    136
    Dear @Emerald Drifter,

    I now have very little hope for real any SOLUTIONS to the CU issue outside of court. Suggestions were made on the previous locked thread with little to no acknowledgement or feedback by CU folks. And NO COMPROMISE is the mantra of CU “leaders”. And besides all the name calling (a plethora of names BTW) by CU proponents, well some things never change. And here’s more of why I see it this way:

    If something iscriminal”, then it must be because someone has done something that is “criminal” thus making them a “criminal”.

    So a couple of days ago, Dave Rauschkolb posted on Walton County Visioning Facebook page,

    “It’s just a travesty that people can’t go to the beach whatever they want. It’s criminal really.”

    With his obvious disdain for private property rights advocates, he, in essence, has labeled them as criminals. Yet another name (name calling) has been added to the list. Please show me where I’ve misinterpreted his statement.
     
  14. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    Drifter, if I came up to you and kicked you between the legs and then sued you; do you deny you would be angry at me? Or would you “abandon the ability to see a win-win?" why I kicked you between the legs?
    Thank you for your "sincere concern" but no need to worry on my account. But I’m perfectly content and at peace viewing the beach and ocean, sipping a cold drink, from our air-conditioned beachfront private property our family has owned for many decades while reading and posting on SoWal as you do too.

    Already answered bob bob concern for me to relax previously.
    “Enjoying and relaxing on our own quiet private beachfront our family has used and chosen to share with many for many decades. But if property rights prevail in court - I'll reconsider. You can thank the Walton Commissioners and anti-social media for that.”
    #466 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    And Lakeview Too concern. “I commune with and enjoy the beach and the sea every time I'm on our beachfront, that our family has owned for many decades, before Seaside, and try to forget about Commissioner's inept governance, disrespectful public beach behavior, and anit-social media lies and shaming just because someone is a beachfront owner who believes in private property rights. Oh well back to nature. Just saw a pod of dolphins swim by as did the people walking the public foreshore.”
    #631 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    Drifter, if your, FBFA, or Commissioners’ win-win is for BFOs to cede 10-20 feet of their fee-simple private property to the public; you have an uninformed unrealistic CU biased sense of the definition win-win. Solution is to respect existing private property rights Walton BFOs have always had and have today and start from there. "It really is that simple."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2019
  15. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    Please do not Stand Your Sand like the Florida Beaches for All attorney has done on multiple occasions and posted on CU social media. Be respectful.
    2018 2nd Staged FB Ulhfelder Vizcaya.jpg bill-nelson-in-walton-county Vizcaya.jpg
    Uhlfelder Stand Sand Saeside.jpeg
    Signs are a First amendment right of speech of EVERY Walton private property owner has as ruled by federal court.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2019
  16. Jenksy

    Jenksy Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    121
    Signs on the beach are a dick move.
     
  17. Emerald Drifter

    Emerald Drifter Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    100
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    I see your point being, indirectly, being named a criminal.

    I left the "Visioning and Quality of Life" page several weeks ago, and frankly, I don't miss it. It has turned into a complaint and whining forum. Despite all of the turmoil and increased problems that come with more people, this place is still amazing. There are a LOT of folks in the hinterlands :) that would wonder why anyone would have a bad day living in SoWal. :)

    As for private property rights, it is THE cornerstone of personal liberty in our country and I was glad to see SCOTUS open up that path to defense of personal property. But getting back to Sowal Al's spirit in the OP; we must find those who will seek a win win. It's still not too late.
     
  18. Auburn Fan

    Auburn Fan Beach Lover

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2018
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Auburn
    You mean like this? Screenshot_20190701_145850.jpg
     
  19. FactorFiction

    FactorFiction Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    164
    There are others who are no longer on that page that follow Walton County for All page and/or Walton County WAVE group. You might want to check those out.
     
  20. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    902
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Santa Rosa Beach
    BACKFIRE
    Please, do it all $ummer long.

    C864B5B0-0E82-4067-81AC-8025A34009E6.jpeg
    81DF2D4E-42BD-4E2A-A438-90F7247AC146.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019

Share This Page