Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.
Without billable hours, I doubt that.
Dave R, don't know why you brought up that court decision. It was obvious even before Reggie commented on it that it had nothing to do with CU but with a previously recorded easement.
In addition, it is just a pedestrian easement, not camp out all day with your fraternity easement.
BTW Dave, you do know that most beach front owners don't have a problem with people respectfully walking the beach?
So are you going to acknowledge that positive aspect, the same as you did this case?
And you led your post with, "Yep. Popcorn popping to watch the other side try to minimize the judgment ruling in response posts...". Looks like Reggie took up your challenge and succeeded with a very succinct reply.
This ruling did not test the doctrine of customary use. It is limited to the watercolor property and per the easement agreement between st joe and Walton county. It does indicate that Walton County was indeed utilizing the doctrine of customary use when approving the st joe development along the beach. I hope that Walton County can put together a few more easement agreements with other beach developments for single family construction and multi-family construction. If they have been consistent with their approvals that include the public beach easements then it could link up with customary use. But this is far from over. Walton County needs to be lawyered up equal to the opposition. They can’t afford procedural errors and over reaching arguments. In football terminology this will be decided by a field goal with one second on the clock.
Rachael, we can agree to disagree and still be forum friends I hope! That is what community is about right? BTW I watched a lot of Perry Mason myself as a kid. I remember thinking how Mr. Mason was so good at knowing when the witness was lying. Was it the facial expressions, or voice deflections or the math did not add up in their story I wonder.
Absolutely, forum friends, and even in real life friends too. I would never discard anyone because of one disagreement, no matter how big. I am kind, open minded, and honest. Haven’t always been the first two, but I’ve always been honest.
Are you implying that you’re not too impressed with the County’s current CU litigator...the same one that defeated customary use for hunters? I can garonteeee that people have hunted these lands a lot longer than they have setting up umbrellas, chairs, tents and coolers on the beaches.
I am implying that wealth and power is behind these lawsuits on the side that wants to exclude people from the beach. Wealth and power is insatiable and are coming after our beach resources. Chicken little is on our beaches and is not wrong. So now more than ever CU activism needs to be at full swing. The legal arguments for CU will hinge on many factors including easement agreements. CU supporters need to think about Nick Saban's interviews after he wins a game. We need to double down on the coaches and players!
Are you talking about the dog hunting that one of the power brokers was talking about? I have no problem with property owners not giving permission to dog hunters. My father loved dog hunting but I was the one taking breakfast and dinner scraps to the pens every day so I got a bad taste for dog hunting
CU is a moot point for me. I don't care to vacation or spend time in South Walton anyway. Too crowded and too much traffic and it gets worse every year.
When I now think of CU and what it means to society and compare that to how capitalism is owning and controlling 50% of the worlds resources how can you not support CU? These property rights power brokers are like a used car salesman. They tell you what is right about the product and nothing about what is wrong about the product. CU as it relates to protecting valuable resources, like our beach, is profoundly important to society and I am not talking about tourism. Our beach supports a human need for hope and happiness. If you go back 2 decades and compare how much beach was available to society and compare it to what is now available you will see more building and less sand dunes and that is just what we can see. Continuing this comparison the number of no trespassing signs and barriers have significantly increased. We are losing a valuable natural and beautiful resource to the richest 1%. All of us should be involved in shutting down these power brokers who are or work for this elite wealth that has corrupted capitalism and the American Dream to the tune of half of the worlds resources and growing. Don't buy the BS property rights argument that they own to the MHWL because the deed says so and because they paid for it. Money should never ever be allowed to have this much effect on human life where hope and happiness is a big part of human purpose. Money has already taken away our sense of sight of this valuable resource and is trying to take away our sense of touch and smell. But that is not enough and now they want to exclude society from the resource. We might could live with a ratio of public to private but if there is nothing to stop wealth from buying and building (and there isn't) and excluding the resource then we will eventually lose the resource. Customary Use has a role in stopping or at least severely slowing down the loss of our beach to wealth.
Of course RG, FBB, SCJ etal disagrees with my reasoning. The economic system works for them.
Wiping out dunes seems to be one of the worst mistakes humans have ever made. And continue to make. Compounding the mistake by selling the beach is simply tragic. And the argument that it was done, and protected by law isn't what anyone with a brain and a heart wants to hear. If the situation can be changed it needs to be done. If it can't be done now then hopefully some day. If never then the tragedy will haunt us forever.
There is one truism that rings clear and loud. And @stone packard touched on it. Because of its tourist destination desirability, 30A continues to grow no matter what. Neither hurricanes, 40 day rains, oil spills, flesh eating bacteria, sharks, capitalist pigs who claim private property rights nor hippie children with socialist indoctrinations can change that fact.
I find myself spending more time at the bay than at the beach even though I own beach front property. The peace and tranquility of the bay provides a completely difference experience than the beach does these days during tourist season. 20 years ago, I couldn't have imagined saying those words as we were completely enamored with 30A as compared to Panama City Beach and Destin. But the 30A area became discovered. And the only real difference between now and then is the crowds and the typical problems as a result (increased traffic on an already overcrowded 30A, lack of parking, etc.).
So what's all that have to do with CU? If it succeeds, you ain't seen nothing yet. Developers and government officials will be looking for ways to profit from this windfall. And definitely one of them will be removing the current 50 foot height restriction resulting in increased density (more people on an already crowded beach). Build tall beautiful buildings with attached water amenities near the beach with a view, provide shuttles and the crowds will continue to grow along with revenue.
Tourism is a capitalist money making machine. Money corrupts. All of us who live and work here share some of the blame. We do have to elect people who represent us and not just the rich developers. The blame is on all of us who think money before community. What I am saying is that elite wealth has power that controls our legislative branch and has increasing control of our judicial branch of government. The Effect of this power is loss of resources and outright oppressive control of society. These power brokers are selling us on property rights like they really care about you and me. They care only about money and power. They are very good at selling us fear and then buying whatever they want. You don’t have to believe in CU but it is a mistake to lose a resource that has a primal connection to life.
Save yourself...gimme yours!
For working class and middle class folk you will have to get in line
Listen of course I understand that money is important. My wife and I have educated ourselves and three children. Money gave us an opportunity to do this but we have always lived with debt. Add to this taxes, insurance, healthcare and raising three children and it comes down to month to month living. We are in the middle class in terms of income and work a lot of hours. Then think about the incomes of those that are in the lower middle class and poor. Keep it local where the service industry is a big part of the economy. Think about the income of law enforcement, teachers, healthcare workers etc. Society is made up mostly of people who live month to month. Now compare that to the elite rich. Who has earned a chance to use this resource the most? Who needs this resource the most to continue making month to month sacrifices to have hope. If you answer with: those who make the most money then I believe you are missing the point. There is a bigger picture than lots of money buying lots of resources to make one happy. Even giving a little something back is important like sharing the beach even though you don't have to. Forget who is to blame. Overcrowding is here. Work with the current leaders. If they are corrupt then work to elect better leaders but this is really not about taking something we did not earn. These power brokers do not want you to think about the bigger picture. Their message is that YOU earned this and all these other people are losers and just want something you have. No, I believe that this is about solving problems together and making some compromises on both sides. This problem should come down to respect on both sides. Trust me, it feels better to make friends not enemies.
This thread has again been hijacked by an alternate universe concept that is make believe. The president that the families who own Beach Property are the power brokers is a false mantra of either deliberate misinformation, or lack of understanding of reality.
Sure, there are some mighty wealthy folks who have recently purchased expensive beach property, and by definition, MUST be wealthy. But average out the generational families owning here for decades, the condo owners, the subdivision lot owners, you’ll find a VERY middle class group of folks, many relying wholly on rental income to allow them to afford such a luxury.
These people, the majority of beachfront owners, will tell you that the CU movement is indeed a campaign orchestrated by power brokers in Walton that control the BCC, TDC, retail and rental industry that need more beach to make more money.
To keep repeating the politics of class envy and entitlement philosophy as if it’s standard protocol, is dishonest and ambitiously hopeful. You may get there in local reality one day, but not yet, not today. The laws and social climate don’t support that communal property belief.
This post was created out of passion for a place we all love. For a community full of happy. This post was about families and children laughing on the beach in a safe and quieter environment, the way I/we all want to remember it for our children and theirs.
This NA NA NA BOO BOO crap of misinformation campaign and drive by cheap shots from folks with no ability to see or hear reality is disgusting.
To stain the original productive 1,000 comments on this thread with this current dribble is indicative of why social media has failed us elsewhere in our society.
Regardless of who wins,
Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy.
Really helpful thank you.
It's not just wealthy people who have bought recently, it's hidden money, LLCs, investment groups, foreigners, and money launderers.
Imagine their surprise when they found out they have legal issues to deal with. The easy money not so easy.
I agree wholeheartedly with your comment except for the word “losers”. I prefer CU activists.
Reggie, you want to be an authority about where the reality is yet I use my name and you use a fake name. You may be an authority but are we to just have faith in you without knowing what your world really is? It is less than honest to use nothing but fear that The People want to "take" your property. No identity whatsoever. None. NADA You are using words like fake reality, alternate universe, deliberate misinformation and the message is that I am all those things? Those are things that describe you and the other power brokers. Makes no sense why you would try to put them on to me or anyone else. I am not trying to impeach you but if I were the evidence would be in your own message of exclusion of the beach good/sharing the beach bad. I am actually trying to find common ground with your position.
Wealth is a greater problem in society than class envy, entitlement philosophy and communal property beliefs. Our resources are not infinite. This is not wrong. You are either being dishonest or disconnected or both.
The People respect you. You do not respect The People. You see and hear only what benefits you. Your reality begins and ends there.
You have turned a sand dune into an exclusive impenetrable barrier of a beautiful resource. You will not be satisfied until you can exclude those losers from the beach behind your domain. You call people like me disgusting. I don't get it. I respect your rights to exclude and have never been on the beach behind your fortress. There would be no problem if you had not built on a sand dune and we all shared the beach like the good old days but you keep trying to turn this around on The People.
I don't know why I keep trying to connect with you as one human to another human. You really don't believe we are equal. In your world there are winners and losers. In your world I am just another loser who wants what you have. Maybe I am a loser because I do not want anything you have!
Glad I'm not a CU activist.
Reggie said, "...misinformation campaign and drive by cheap shots from folks with no ability to see or hear reality is disgusting." He's calling your "misinformation campaign and drive by cheap shots" disgusting, not you. Now you can sleep better.
mputnal. I sincerely think you need to regroup a tad with your thoughts and your loose words. I sense you might be embarrassing those who support CU.
On a positive note, I personally appreciate the 5 paragraphs. It makes reading the nonsense a little easier.
Separate names with a comma.