Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. 30A Skunkape

    30A Skunkape Mr. Small Box

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    Unless I missed something, or don't fully understand the timetable involved with such matters, the motion to dismiss the county's lawsuits has not been honored, so it might not be the slam dunk you imply.
     
  2. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    Yep.

    You are kidding me, right?
     
  3. Stone Cold J

    Stone Cold J Beach Lover

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    There is no slam dunk in this lawsuit. I have lost count on the number of motions to dismiss already filed. There are lots of them in the over 1000 court documents filed so far on this lawsuit brought by the county against every single private beach front property owner in Walton County. Not one of the filed motions to dismiss have yet to be ruled by the Judge (in other words not one of them have been ruled out by the Judge). It could take months before he rules on ANY of them.

    Since it looks like the leader of the FBFA disagreed with one of my previous posts. I will ask the questions again to any FBFA representatives, do you think the county has proved (or even provided any evidence) that the lawsuit by the county to take away private property rights (the right of exclusion) is reasonable, without interruption, and free from dispute?

    Go ahead and give an answer and be honest. That is 3 of the 4 criteria that MUST be PROVED and HAVE been CLAIMED by the PLANTIF (which now includes FBFA which Dave represents and help found). Ancient is the 4th criteria (of which all must be met). I don't think i have seen any evidence in the submitted court documents of unlimited people using beach equipment on private property against the will of the property owners on 30A, but let's set that one criteria aside for now and focus on the other 3 criteria. I know that is a tough question, but so far THAT question has costs thousands of people millions of dollars, and it has never been answered.

    Another question, if FBFA is a PLANTIFF in a lawsuit against thousands of people, making the claim that unlimited people using beach equipment on private property against the will of the property owners, is Ancient, Reasonable, Without Interruption, and Free from Dispute, is found to be frivolous (AKA no evidence provided to make that claim), does that mean the FBFA (as a Plaintiff) has liability for the legal fees? So far estimated at the $2 Million mark but could go to $50 Million or more according the FBFA lawyer.

    Come on Dave, The People and the BFO's and others that just read this forum for general information to make up their own mind, REALLY want to know YOUR answer.

    To the admins. Those are honest questions seeking real answers from FBFA representatives (of which Dave is known as a founder and vocal supporter of the lawsuit) which has cost millions of dollars so far and will continue to cost millions until the Judge rules or dismisses the case. .Please let this post stand without deleting or banning.
     
  4. bob1

    bob1 Beach Comber

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    :lolabove:WTF
     
  5. L.C. Bane

    L.C. Bane Beach Fanatic

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    In summation, some BFO's are banning the people that clean their houses, maintain their landscaping, repair their plumbing, keep the a/c and heat operating, keep the water flowing, serve their food and drink, pick up their trash, educate their children (I'm sure I missed a couple) from using the beaches of Walton County Florida that they had been enjoying without conflict for generations.

    Hard to fathom, isn't it?
     
  6. Pam Hicks

    Pam Hicks Beach Lover

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    THE UNWASHED YOU PEOPLE NEED TO KEEP TO YOURE TRAILERS!!!
     
  7. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    That truly is an interesting question. The first instinct is to say if they were found “co-liable” for the plaintiff fees, that FBFA would just simply file bankruptcy and that’s that. But that’s just an educated guess.

    Edgewater Condominiums has already filed for attorney fees from the county and its counsel (which they will get IMO). I did not see where the filing mentioned FBFA.

    BTW, if Edgewater does win (and I think they will - click here), does it not weaken the county’s position with all other properties? In the end, what really is the difference between Edgewater and any other gulf front property that has deeded title to the mean high water line and associated private property rights? I do understand it might be a little different if they received beach nourishment. But the county is still going after their property north of the ECL (erosion control line) as well in the CU lawsuit by default.

    Which brings up yet another question. Why did the county include all those parcels that received beach nourishment? The public already has a right to use the beach south of the ECL (where everybody wants to be anyway). My theory is they know that the added beach will eventually erode back to the starting point and then the public WILL NOT have open access. Re-nourishment is supposed to “fix” that but who knows what will happen when that occurs. And therefore the county is trying to cover their bases. It’s the only thing that makes sense in that regard. It’s probably cheaper to just “steal” the beach north of the ECL via CU than it is to throw more sand out there re-creating the public beach south of the ECL.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  8. kayti elliott

    kayti elliott Beach Lover

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    How did the citizens of Walton County every get by before the "activist" crusaders for truth and justice came to save us from the mean old rich people?
     
  9. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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    Dissenting views expressed on any issue either from Americans or organizations in America is what makes America America. We will not be intimidated, influenced or discouraged in any way into submission by threats, veiled threats, personal attacks or otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  10. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Of course I am kidding you! It is the nature of us humans to make enemies right?

    The County has allowed over development of our little island. You and your group has benefited the most from that short sighted and economically motivated decision to approve your exclusive buildings adjacent to the coastal shoreline. Since we are going to be enemies I say that the State should lay claim to all shoreline AND dune systems that nature meant as a barrier to the mainland. If the county was wrong to approve your exclusive buildings then that error must also be corrected. If someone builds on someones else's property because of a faulty deed recording then what do you think the State will do? Sovereign submerged land management will need to be revisited for each development approval. How does rising sea levels affect these permit approvals? Was all permits required approved? If so, who approved them and did they have absolute authority? So, now you BFO power brokers may have another problem to deal with because this game is going in to overtime...just like you power brokers wanted...no compromise...fight to the end. But, you should know that there is always the option of compromise (settlement) to your exclusive beach demands.
     
  11. Stone Cold J

    Stone Cold J Beach Lover

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    Dave, asking honest questions, that are the core of the lawsuit, of which FBFA is a PLANFIFF, and you have supported with rally cries of No Compromise, and you are regarded a FBFA leader and founder, should not be intimidating, especially since FBFA is leading the charge and millions of dollars of the people of Walton County are at risk.

    Do you think the county has proved (or even provided any evidence) that the lawsuit by the county to take away private property rights (the right of exclusion) is reasonable, without interruption, and free from dispute? If so please explain your answer or provide any evidence.
     
  12. steel1man

    steel1man Beach Fanatic

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    Trained Weather Folks can barely predict the weather accurately 3-4 days out (50% correct at best).... How are these clowns predicting our demise 12-50 years out.......#HowLongCanYouThreadWater
     
  13. kayti elliott

    kayti elliott Beach Lover

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    If the beach is public property, why not cover them with solar panels and put up offshore windmills. That would make it easier for the government to ban fossil fuels. I also understand that there are devices that harness the energy of waves. That would solve the problem of people wanting to go to the beach.
     
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  14. bob1

    bob1 Beach Comber

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    Science is good.
     
  15. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Does not make dissenting baseless emotional uninformed customary use "beliefs" factual, based on American Constitution, American rule of law, any more believable (except to those who don't know any different), or relevant to Walton private property rights.

    Who is "We" will not be intimidated"? Who is making "threats, veiled threats, personal attacks"?
    #421 "Game On!" Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    Beachfront private property owners will not be intimidated by CU antisocial media, influenced by CU intentional misinformation or discouraged by class warfare conspiracies in any way into submission by threats, veiled threats, personal attacks or otherwise from those with no real property skin in the game.

    CUnCourt

    Stone Cold J, Dave Rauschkolb has been asked to explain CU beliefs with facts over the years and on this thread previously #236 but there is no explination or facts or basis in law. Just I "believe" in my version of CU.

    #236 Dave Rausckolb can you please explain just ONE of the four or more criterion of ancient English customary use and what evidence you think applies to any of the 1,192 Walton private beach parcels to justify your positions?
    Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #243 Can you describe how any legal criteria of customary use applies to private property? Why would any beachfront owner identify themselves so Ulhfelder and others can pick a fight and taunt law enforcement on anti-social media?
    Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    #249 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
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    And Dave Rauschkolb calls others "delusional"???
    #1406 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
     
  16. bob1

    bob1 Beach Comber

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    :doh::doh::doh: :spin::spin::spin::spin::puke:

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    We all agree with that except for the concept of supporting one’s dissenting views with twisted or made up facts.

    I hope you didn’t take Stone Cold J’s post about FBFA’s possible legal fee liability as a threat. The timing is too coincidental. If not, why did you make such a statement after all this time?

    BTW, you still haven’t acknowledged Reggie’s challenge for a debate, or have you?
     
  18. kayti elliott

    kayti elliott Beach Lover

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    "We" must mean the people that matter.
     
  19. Reggie Gaskins

    Reggie Gaskins Beach Lover

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    It seems there is confusion and discussion in the community over an FBFA piece from DR that has appeared in many public venues. Ricky Garcia, of Santa Rosa Beach(?) has leveled the discussion on an FBFA FB page to more objective facts, rather than subjective heresay... interesting discussion point?

    Ricky Garcia:
    Although very powerful, this post is an opinion piece, improperly stating a few facts that create a false premise. While we should all respect each other’s positions and opinions on local matters, it’s important that facts not be misrepresented to make one’s point. A legal scholar might have rewritten this post, with correct factual and current legal statutes, to read as follows...

    Advocates for Private Beaches say the County is unfairly suing 1200+ beachfront owners, and many of those are multi family units, resulting in nearly 5,000 owners being sued by county.

    The County is now properly following the procedures set forth in a popularly supported and passed by more than a super majority in both state legislative bodies, House Bill 631 designed to affirm an existing state process for beach counties wishing to establish Customary Use. A Bill beachfront owners supported in addition to the current “one off” court cases. They support the Bill that reaffirms the legal process that required a judicial body to rule on Customary Use, rather than such an obvious illegal overreach by a local political body.

    Any Customary Use Ordinance, by law, requires a decision in the courts. Florida Legislature at the urging of those lawmakers recognizing proper existing legal process, properly applied existing state law against the home rule overreach by our local County Commissioners in a previous unlawful ordinance.

    Customary Use argument should have originally been litigated until a Judge ruled in that case, so the Florida Legislature, by starting the reconfirming law on July 1, 2018 required the people wishing for the public to enjoy full use of our private beaches, a path different from the customary history of public and private beaches in Walton County that has existed for centuries. This start date, confirming Florida and US Constitutional property rights, validated beachfront property owners rights to exclude unruly and arbitrary people from the sands they have owned with their families for hundreds of years. This will correctly let the Judge decide what the go forward process will be.

    NO, the County did not just arbitrarily decide to sue the 1200 + properties, aka 5,000 owners, they were legally required to follow the proper legal procedure from the Florida Legislature and reacting to the unlawful establishment of our County’s unlawfully passed County Ordinance. The County was put into a box; it was either immediately and forever lose the Hail Mary attempt at an unlawful ordinance for use of the private beaches for it's public citizens and visitors - or follow the HB631 procedures to properly establish Customary Use.

    It is fact, however, that Customary Use law has never legally existed in Walton County. Further, it is also succinct and proven fact that no public beach has been newly “privatized” by any law, including Quiet Title actions. Those actions merely confirmed or further defined already long ownership for many decades, that private beach.

    The county had no choice; follow the procedures set forth in house bill 631, and long standing state law, or let our beaches remain a patchwork of 50% private and 50% public beaches. I, in my opinion as President of FBFA, admire and applaud their conviction by taking measures towards the public use of all of our private beaches for us and future generations. And if this lawsuit is won the rest of Florida and The Nation can thank them for taking this first important and essential step. Dave Rauschkolb

    Great discussion opportunity here.....
     
  20. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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    Ricky Garcia, another fake, anon poster/poser created for the "Walton County Vision's AKA Walton Wave Facebook Page, formerly touted as a fully public page and now private. We vet anonymous posters whenever possible and delete content if posted anonymously. If I am wrong that you are not representing yourself, a real person/resident of Walton County Mr. Garcia, full apologies are in order. Your altering my original works originally published by me will get no "discussion" from me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019

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