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rapunzel

Beach Fanatic
Nov 30, 2005
2,514
980
Point Washington
I don't mean to be pointing fingers at your Baby Ruth. lol. I think it is interesting that Obama's campaign is on "change." Many think that he will change Washington, but he will just add to the powers of the Federal Gov't, making it even more difficult for anyone to change Washington. The only way to change Washington is to lighten up on all of the powers of the Fed. Gov't.

Real conservatives--and the vociferous rightists commenting on here are not among them--understand that it is not that individuals are the owners of property and the bearers of rights that exist before and apart from the involvement of the state. It is through the state that any right must be enforced, and that about which we do not need the state in some respect or other we need not call a right. So let's go ahead and check at the door this alarmist fear that any state involvement in matters it governs equals unfettered tyranny.

The criticisms of Barack Obama [that old song and dance about 'expanding government] being offered here forget the substantial respect that his proposals express for individual liberty. His health care plan would allow, but not require, individuals to buy health insurance policies offered by private companies and would subsidize the purchase of those policies by the poor. Moreover, the fact that Obama does not mandate insurance coverage for everyone is the primary difference between his plan and the one signed into law by Republican darling Mitt Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts.

Moreover, consider one solution Obama offers to the looming financial crises of those Americans facing retirement pensionless, with meager savings, or with declining value in their home equity. He proposes to make the first $50,000 of their yearly income tax free, encouraging them insofar as possible to work and increasing the reward for that work. Likewise, his other tax cuts are targeted to increase the rewards of work to Americans, whether it is by increasing the earned income tax credit or the child care tax credit. Even Obama's proposals to make college more accessible rely on an exchange of service for that benefit.

Not only does Obama's domestic policy create economic opportunity, it reflects the precise opposite of an "entitlement" approach and imagines everyday Americans not as the passive recipients of government assistance but as active parties, encouraged to work, encouraged to learn, and encouraged to serve their communities.

What kind of conservative--indeed what kind of person at all invested in the preservation and furtherance of republican forms of government--could look upon Obama's platform and not be, well, hopeful?

-- an anonymous comment from Economist.com posted this, and I thought it was very well stated.
 

rapunzel

Beach Fanatic
Nov 30, 2005
2,514
980
Point Washington
Ah....I'm so tired of politics....

This thread has made me want to take a vacation from politics....

And it's made me want to watch these...

[nomedia]http://youtube.com/watch?v=L8NDUxD77eE[/nomedia]

"It's no big deal."

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=8dXkZbVkeAU"]YouTube - Giants vs. Packers, Eddie Murphy knew it........[/ame]

"Son, now I'm just going to tell you this one time...stay off the drugs."
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
rapunzel, what has that guy to say about Obama declaring in a recent debate that even though he is aware that lowering the rates will increase the gov't revenue, he wants to increase capital gains to 28% in order to "level the playing field?"

Comparing Obama's Health Care Plan to Romney's is about like comparing the nutritional value of McDonald's to BurgerKing's.
 

BeachSiO2

Beach Fanatic
Jun 16, 2006
3,294
737
rapunzel, what has that guy to say about Obama declaring in a recent debate that even though he is aware that lowering the rates will increase the gov't revenue, he wants to increase capital gains to 28% in order to "level the playing field?"

More than half of my yearly income is subject to capital gains instead of payroll taxes. Doubling that will sure put a strain on my checkbook. :sosad:
 

rapunzel

Beach Fanatic
Nov 30, 2005
2,514
980
Point Washington
rapunzel, what has that guy to say about Obama declaring in a recent debate that even though he is aware that lowering the rates will increase the gov't revenue, he wants to increase capital gains to 28% in order to "level the playing field?"

Comparing Obama's Health Care Plan to Romney's is about like comparing the nutritional value of McDonald's to BurgerKing's.

Well, I'm on vacation in the Lounge...but, I don't think he ever said that. I believe the rate was to go back to what it was under Clinton, and probably lower -- 20% is the number I remember hearing him use.

When Clinton entered the White House, capital gains were capped at 28%, but were lowered to 20% during his administration. I think someone is taking the "back to where they were under Clinton" phrase and choosing the scariest number they can find for that right wing talking point.

Obama advocates a return to fiscal responsibility to stabilize our economy and the value of the dollar. He also advocates spreading the responsibility for paying for this war fairly. By levelling the playing field, he means spreading the cost of this war beyond the working classes.

A sound fiscal policy will keep the value of investments from falling, more than making up for a 5% increase in capital gains. I'll happily pay 5% more in capital gains if it means I can have an economy like we had under Clinton.

Why do so many libertarians/conservatives believe it is so wrong to tax wealth at a rate similar to that which we tax work?
 

traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
...Why do so many libertarians/conservatives believe it is so wrong to tax wealth at a rate similar to that which we tax work?

Speaking as a Libertarian, it is simply because taxing the "wealthy" is part of an income redistribution sheme which is socialism. I believe in unfettered free enterprise and a tiny, little ol' bitty government. And for all Americans keeping as much of their hard-earned money as possible.
 

BeachSiO2

Beach Fanatic
Jun 16, 2006
3,294
737
Why do so many libertarians/conservatives believe it is so wrong to tax wealth at a rate similar to that which we tax work?

I don't see it as a taxing wealth vs taxing work issue, actually I don't support either, but I'll get to that. Some people set up their lives to work based on a set amount of money coming from a variety of sources. By doing this in depth planning, we can maximize the return on our investment whether it be financial investments or hours we sit behind a desk working. When the rules of the game are changed, it can severely impact our quality of life. This is especially critical in an age where 401k's and the like are going to be our nest egg, or for some retirees these already make up a large percentage of someones income. Personally, I look at Social Security as charitable giving and do not expect it to be there when I get to the age at which the GOVERNMENT says I can retire.

I think this is why the Fair tax is gaining ground, and in my opinion is the way to go. I should be rewarded for being frugal with my money and pay taxes based on what I spend, not be penalized because I saved money when the capital gains tax was 15% and will have to use it when it is 20% or more.
 

JustaLocal

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2007
447
49
SRB
rapunzel, what has that guy to say about Obama declaring in a recent debate that even though he is aware that lowering the rates will increase the gov't revenue, he wants to increase capital gains to 28% in order to "level the playing field?"

Comparing Obama's Health Care Plan to Romney's is about like comparing the nutritional value of McDonald's to BurgerKing's.

He said "for purposes of fairness."
[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpSDBu35K-8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpSDBu35K-8[/COLO[/nomedia]

In any case, I think the far left aims to "level the playing field."
 

rapunzel

Beach Fanatic
Nov 30, 2005
2,514
980
Point Washington
I don't see it as a taxing wealth vs taxing work issue, actually I don't support either, but I'll get to that. Some people set up their lives to work based on a set amount of money coming from a variety of sources. By doing this in depth planning, we can maximize the return on our investment whether it be financial investments or hours we sit behind a desk working. When the rules of the game are changed, it can severely impact our quality of life. This is especially critical in an age where 401k's and the like are going to be our nest egg, or for some retirees these already make up a large percentage of someones income. Personally, I look at Social Security as charitable giving and do not expect it to be there when I get to the age at which the GOVERNMENT says I can retire.

I think this is why the Fair tax is gaining ground, and in my opinion is the way to go. I should be rewarded for being frugal with my money and pay taxes based on what I spend, not be penalized because I saved money when the capital gains tax was 15% and will have to use it when it is 20% or more.

But money in a 401K is not taxed in the beginning, and only the gains are taxed at the end, so the money is being taxed at a lower rate far below 20% or 15%, so the incentive to save remains.

Taxing the wealth is not "taxing the wealthy" -- some populist slogan, it's taking shared responsibility to get our deficit under control. Calling it socialist is as dishonest as calling huge, expanding government waging war on credit and running up massive deficits conservative.

Whatever, I'm on vacation from the Politics forum. Whoosh....off I go!
 
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