Deforestation of Walton County

[DP]

Is it safe to assume you'll be condescending in all of your replies?

Our state forest only exists because a developer went bankrupt after purchasing the land from the St. Joe Paper company, it's why you see their concrete property markers on state lands.

When that land went up for foreclosure auction it was purchased and then given to the state. Topsail state preserve was given that unique distinction as the land from western end of 30A extending east had never been cleared or forested so is in fact original scrub that is hundreds, if not thousands of years old.

Regarding the road through the state forest, you can thank local "environmentalist" Dave Rauschkalb who kicked off and has spearheaded this effort. I 100% oppose the forest road.

The original post incorrectly stated that JOE was careful and never clear cut. This is simply not true. Every lot in WaterColor, Watersound and the Retreat that has a home on it was clear cut to the lot lines, however JOE required replanting after construction.

The original post also never really clarified what it is in reference to.

Hey Matt - can you expand on what you know about the concrete markers? We walked by one on 30A east of Butler Elementary and were wondering about it...it's kind of cool looking.

 

[Dawn]

The original post incorrectly stated that JOE was careful and never clear cut. This is simply not true. Every lot in WaterColor, Watersound and the Retreat that has a home on it was clear cut to the lot lines, however JOE required replanting after construction.

I was referring to the generous buffers of forest, wetlands, dunes, etc. The lots are tight but there could have been a lot more in place of natural areas they preserved. They even had employees to manage natural areas and habitat and hired consultants. People wanted to build really big in Joe developments early on but drive through the new Camp Creek Watersound and those houses dwarf them. And yes all of the land is scraped.

Windmark Beach is an example that is easy to see - the original development along the bay was like WaterSound Beach with lots of buffer and trees. The recent development was large chunks sold to DR Horrton and they scraped it bare. Not just lots but everything. It's happening in Watersound now also and Joe has been getting heat from DEP about filling/clearing wetlands. But of course new phases get turbo boosted right through Walton County planning.

 

[Matt J]

Hey Matt - can you expand on what you know about the concrete markers? We walked by one on 30A east of Butler Elementary and were wondering about it...it's kind of cool looking.

They shouldn't be disturbed as they are still legal property markers.

I actually got to make some as a kid in Boyscouts. Normally property is marked with an iron rod, but obviously when dealing with hundreds of thousands of acres a more visible solution was needed.

A wooden frame was built and filled with rebar and concrete. We used pine pollen as a release agent. The real trick was timing the hardening to be enough to remove the frame and not slump, but soft enough to carve "SJPC" or "ST JOE". And press the property marker seal on the top. A lot of them have lost these over the years due to wear and corrosion.

If it was marking a road or trail head it would be painted school bus yellow for safety.

The hardest part was installation as you had to haul it to it's final place and then dig a hole with post hole diggers about 3.5-4 feet deep.

 

[Matt J]

I was referring to the generous buffers of forest, wetlands, dunes, etc. The lots are tight but there could have been a lot more in place of natural areas they preserved. They even had employees to manage natural areas and habitat and hired consultants. People wanted to build really big in Joe developments early on but drive through the new Camp Creek Watersound and those houses dwarf them. And yes all of the land is scraped.

Windmark Beach is an example that is easy to see - the original development along the bay was like WaterSound Beach with lots of buffer and trees. The recent development was large chunks sold to DR Horrton and they scraped it bare. Not just lots but everything. It's happening in Watersound now also and Joe has been getting heat from DEP about filling/clearing wetlands. But of course new phases get turbo boosted right through Walton County planning.

Windmark Beach was a failure by most standards. They plopped a Watersound style town center in the middle of an rural area. Shockingly it was difficult to run and maintain a high end signature restaurant and various other shops on a non-existent fulltime population. The existing locals had no interest in it.

JOE sold the remainder of Windmark to DR Horton to exit the development. With the increase in homes the town center has started to come back to life and doesn't feel like a dystopian wasteland.

Change is constant and fighting it like you can stop it is a fools errand.

 

[James Bentwood]

Florida has been ruined over the past 100 years? It’s pretty easily the most, or at worst, second most popular state as far as migration goes. This is just a made up statement.

98 runs thru the entire Panhandle. As the area evolves it needs to as well. It’s the only freakin road. Of course it’s going to be expanded over time.
And 30A traffic is no biggie cuz from Seaside School you have a couple options on how to spend 20-30 minutes getting to 98. Got it. Guess we missed what a nightmare everything was when Deer Lake Bridge was closed.

On customary use I wasn’t stating anything other than what many have been declaring in the threads about customary use. Apparently it’s going to ruin South Walton. Oh the drama. Everything is the end of the world.

This is by far the least developed region in the state. It’s been growing as more people decide this is where they want to be.

Despite this, the County has done more than most in efforts to preserve much of its beauty, and the largest landowner has pledged to to put billions of dollars worth of land into conservation. And yet all you hear is locals screaming bloody murder because they think coming out of the Stone Age and getting with the times is the end of the world. They don’t like other people’s homes, they’re bitter about the traffic. They mock the folks on 30A. They hate the big greedy corporations for no legitimate reason. This is such an amazing place I don’t get the point in wasting so much energy getting all strung out about all these things. You people are spoiled, and aught to see what goes on in 99% of cities/towns/regions in the country.

You keep coming across as uneducated and uncaring and disrespectful of our community and natural treasures. Start caring or you will lose them like the rest of the state. Having a state forest near you should not and does not absolve us of being responsible.

Florida has mostly been developed and paved. A paradise has been ruined. Your idea of paradise is more people and contractors and shopping malls and townhomes, not natural areas I guess. The more people and roads the better right? Need fast food and schools and more christian churches . . that's Florida and it's happening right before your eyes in South Walton. Bad history repeating itself.

Read a little about the history of Florida. From the early railroads through today with disasters like polluting and draining the Everglades and the Cross Florida Barge Canal debacles.

We keep repeating mistakes not learned.

 

[Dawn]

Windmark Beach was a failure by most standards. They plopped a Watersound style town center in the middle of an rural area. Shockingly it was difficult to run and maintain a high end signature restaurant and various other shops on a non-existent fulltime population. The existing locals had no interest in it.

JOE sold the remainder of Windmark to DR Horton to exit the development. With the increase in homes the town center has started to come back to life and doesn't feel like a dystopian wasteland.

Change is constant and fighting it like you can stop it is a fools errand.

Not preserving natural areas is being the fool. The DR Horton portions are dystopian. The older areas natural and beautiful. The town center was built on hubris of "build it and they will come". If they had known better they would have just built homes, boardwalks, a pool, and not commercial.

Joe got out of that model but went to far the other way IMO.

 

[UpNorth]

You keep coming across as uneducated and uncaring and disrespectful of our community and natural treasures. Start caring or you will lose them like the rest of the state. Having a state forest near you should not and does not absolve us of being responsible.

Florida has mostly been developed and paved. A paradise has been ruined. Your idea of paradise is more people and contractors and shopping malls and townhomes, not natural areas I guess. The more people and roads the better right? Need fast food and schools and more christian churches . . that's Florida and it's happening right before your eyes in South Walton. Bad history repeating itself.

Read a little about the history of Florida. From the early railroads through today with disasters like polluting and draining the Everglades and the Cross Florida Barge Canal debacles.

We keep repeating mistakes not learned.

Not the intention and strange takeaway when our family has chose to relocate here over any other place in the country and the number one thing I’ve repeatedly mentioned is how wonderful this region is. I’ve noticed this strange micro aggression/flex from some locals regarding “I know the area and you don’t” sorta attitude, that’s fine. You guys can have that. We re about 4 years in, congrats if you’ve been here longer and know more.

Ive just been puzzled by some of the poor attitudes or hostilities I’ve encountered. Complaining about developers who’ve given so much to the community, and complaining about development when 95% of the county is vacant land just seems silly. I don’t care for fast food and don’t need a million shopping centers like we re in Tampa or Boca. But some of you guys act like a Whole Foods or Trader Joe’s or Costco means civilization as you’ve known it is coming to an end. Complaining about housing when there’s a clear demand from people who want to be here. You can’t play the “housing is expensive and problematic but no more building” card, see California. There’s literally one major road/highway covering most of the Panhandle…more roads doesn’t mean your state forests or the St Joe conservation land is all going away. It all just seems really petty and unnecessary considering you live in such an amazing place.

 

[bob1]

Not the intention and strange takeaway when our family has chose to relocate here over any other place in the country and the number one thing I’ve repeatedly mentioned is how wonderful this region is. I’ve noticed this strange micro aggression/flex from some locals regarding “I know the area and you don’t” sorta attitude, that’s fine. You guys can have that. We re about 4 years in, congrats if you’ve been here longer and know more.

Ive just been puzzled by some of the poor attitudes or hostilities I’ve encountered. Complaining about developers who’ve given so much to the community, and complaining about development when 95% of the county is vacant land just seems silly. I don’t care for fast food and don’t need a million shopping centers like we re in Tampa or Boca. But some of you guys act like a Whole Foods or Trader Joe’s or Costco means civilization as you’ve known it is coming to an end. Complaining about housing when there’s a clear demand from people who want to be live here. You can’t play the “housing is expensive and problematic but no more building” card, see California. There’s literally one major road/highway covering most of the Panhandle…more roads doesn’t mean your state forests or the St Joe conservation land is all going away. It all just seems really petty and unnecessary considering you live in such an amazing place.

Realtor or sub contractor?

 

[PoppaJ]

Not the intention and strange takeaway when our family has chose to relocate here over any other place in the country and the number one thing I’ve repeatedly mentioned is how wonderful this region is. I’ve noticed this strange micro aggression/flex from some locals regarding “I know the area and you don’t” sorta attitude, that’s fine. You guys can have that. We re about 4 years in, congrats if you’ve been here longer and know more.

Ive just been puzzled by some of the poor attitudes or hostilities I’ve encountered. Complaining about developers who’ve given so much to the community, and complaining about development when 95% of the county is vacant land just seems silly. I don’t care for fast food and don’t need a million shopping centers like we re in Tampa or Boca. But some of you guys act like a Whole Foods or Trader Joe’s or Costco means civilization as you’ve known it is coming to an end. Complaining about housing when there’s a clear demand from people who want to be here. You can’t play the “housing is expensive and problematic but no more building” card, see California. There’s literally one major road/highway covering most of the Panhandle…more roads doesn’t mean your state forests or the St Joe conservation land is all going away. It all just seems really petty and unnecessary considering you live in such an amazing place.

I’ve been here since July 1 of 2007 and still don’t feel like a local

 

[DP]

They shouldn't be disturbed as they are still legal property markers.

I actually got to make some as a kid in Boyscouts. Normally property is marked with an iron rod, but obviously when dealing with hundreds of thousands of acres a more visible solution was needed.

A wooden frame was built and filled with rebar and concrete. We used pine pollen as a release agent. The real trick was timing the hardening to be enough to remove the frame and not slump, but soft enough to carve "SJPC" or "ST JOE". And press the property marker seal on the top. A lot of them have lost these over the years due to wear and corrosion.

If it was marking a road or trail head it would be painted school bus yellow for safety.

The hardest part was installation as you had to haul it to it's final place and then dig a hole with post hole diggers about 3.5-4 feet deep.

Thanks for that insight - we definitely aren't touchy/feely with it, but it looks like some real solid work!