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scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about - there have always been gay men and women serving in our armed services (about 65,000 currently). All they are asking is to not be discharged/fired solely for being gay.

And it is not like we are trying something radical or untested - more than 25 countries currently allow openly gay people to serve and have for years - including most of our allies. (Canada, Great Britain, Israel, Australia, Germany, France, Denmark, Italy, Sweden, South Africa, New Zealand to name a few). The only members of NATO who don't allow it are Turkey and the USA. Russia allows it during wartime.

The reasons I have heard mentioned as to why this can't happen (morale, harassment, recruitment, retention, cohesion) have already been disproved by other countries allowing it, OUR forces participating in joint exercises with these countries, and polling of current personnel. Bear in mind that these are also the exact same reasons given over 50 years ago as to why we shouldn't integrate the military.

Not to mention that we waste billions of dollars training personnel who are either fired or choose not to reenlist because of the policy. And we spend millions investigating reports that someone might be gay. Not that they are harassing someone, not that they aren't doing their job, merely that they are gay.

So here's a news flash - our military has gay people - they are already showering, bunking, working, serving, and dying alongside their heterosexual counterparts - and letting them be honest about their sexuality w/o losing their job won't negatively change anything - but it will have many positive changes - financial, social, troop strength.

Now please tell me why (with some evidence/stats please) I am completely wrong and we cannot have openly gay men & women serving in our military...................instead of gay men and women hiding their sexuality.

And to head off any partisan squabbles, here is a link to a Republican group's web page discussing the issue in greater detail.

Issues: Gays in the Military
 

Lynnie

SoWal Insider
Apr 18, 2007
8,151
434
SoBuc
I hope this isn't a partisan thing. Why don't people recognize that we're all human beings? Geez!
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
3,471
59
Right here!
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about - there have always been gay men and women serving in our armed services (about 65,000 currently). All they are asking is to not be discharged/fired solely for being gay.

And it is not like we are trying something radical or untested - more than 25 countries currently allow openly gay people to serve and have for years - including most of our allies. (Canada, Great Britain, Israel, Australia, Germany, France, Denmark, Italy, Sweden, South Africa, New Zealand to name a few). The only members of NATO who don't allow it are Turkey and the USA. Russia allows it during wartime.

The reasons I have heard mentioned as to why this can't happen (morale, harassment, recruitment, retention, cohesion) have already been disproved by other countries allowing it, OUR forces participating in joint exercises with these countries, and polling of current personnel. Bear in mind that these are also the exact same reasons given over 50 years ago as to why we shouldn't integrate the military.

Not to mention that we waste billions of dollars training personnel who are either fired or choose not to reenlist because of the policy. And we spend millions investigating reports that someone might be gay. Not that they are harassing someone, not that they aren't doing their job, merely that they are gay.

So here's a news flash - our military has gay people - they are already showering, bunking, working, serving, and dying alongside their heterosexual counterparts - and letting them be honest about their sexuality w/o losing their job won't negatively change anything - but it will have many positive changes - financial, social, troop strength.

Now please tell me why (with some evidence/stats please) I am completely wrong and we cannot have openly gay men & women serving in our military...................instead of gay men and women hiding their sexuality.

And to head off any partisan squabbles, here is a link to a Republican group's web page discussing the issue in greater detail.

Issues: Gays in the Military

Cost of logistics, housing, benefits for partners & children, etc.. You can, it's just not something you snap your fingers at and it's done.
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,919
9,504
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
Cost of logistics, housing, benefits for partners & children, etc.. You can, it's just not something you snap your fingers at and it's done.

logistics and housing? would this really require a lot of change? why?

and benefits for partners? a separate issue.
 
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scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
Actually, if you discount the lame homophobic arguments those are really the only undecided items - housing considerations, partnership & insurance benefits, how they vary from state to state based on recognition of domestic partnerships etc.

Though I would posit that those costs would be more than be offset by not having to fund gay witchhunts and retrain all the personnel who are either fired or chose to not reenlist because of the DNDT policy.

Seriously, that is all that remains to be determined - the benefit and housing paperwork - and then we can give the people who volunteer to die for our country and its beliefs an equal legal standing.

And feel free to PM me if you feel I am overstating this and are worried about responses to your honest opinion. I may paraphrase if you hit a nerve, but I don't name names - unlike our current military policy.
 
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Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,919
9,504
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
Is housing an issue? I haven't seen the news or discussions on this. These guys and gals have lived and fought side by side forever. If a person admits to being homosexual then that makes him suddenly in need of alternate living arrangements? maybe so. I have no clue.
 

Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,862
9,670
This simply gives the right something to saber rattle about. I can honestly state that I know of at least one gay man/woman in every branch of the military. Some first hand experience. It's an antiquated rule that came about after WWII when the military desperately needed to shed weight and didn't want to pay benefits to a large group of otherwise honorably discharged persons.

If you ever wondered why San Francisco has such a large gay population you can thank the military. It was the primary drop off point for dishonorably discharged military. Since they left with the clothes on their backs they stayed and thus the Castro was born.
 

Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,862
9,670

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
Is housing an issue? I haven't seen the news or discussions on this. These guys and gals have lived and fought side by side forever. If a person admits to being homosexual then that makes him suddenly in need of alternate living arrangements? maybe so. I have no clue.

No - sorry I was unclear, but I have been posting on the run. Housing for the current enlisted personnel is a non-issue. It's their domestic/on-base partners/family housing that complicates it.

Exactly how to draft legislation and make it consistent through the states for housing allowances and insurance benefits for partners and family is the question.

Really, it's just down to minutiae and paperwork - which is why it makes me so frustrated.
 
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