Eleven Fla Counties forbid teaching of Evolution

[Teresa]

I'm having trouble with the Ark, and the Virgin birth, but I'm not fighting with the church about what's being taught in Sunday school.

the ark is absolutely true! JK. I wasn't there so I can't really say.



nohall - I know I'm sounding like a christian basher. please don't get that idea. I am a christian, born and raised, with lots of love for my Italian culture and religion. but, to me all that is personal and does not have to do with evolution and school issues. my belief system was ingrained in me as a tiny child, and its very important to me - and that's all I am going to say about that, because it is personal and not relevant to this discussion.

its a non-issue if parents raise their children with open minds and teach them about being a true citizen of the world. IMO, ID has nothing to do with real world, especially beyond their little minds or towns in the US.

Once again, I want my child exposed to the education of world religions, which includes a zillion fascinating creation stories, including ID. in the appropriate class setting. outside science.

The Ark is a wonderful story, if a little scary when God gets that angry at the world, and I was taught that it is a real story. It has its own reason to exist in the bible. This won't hurt my child's view of the real world if he's taught the same. But, ID has a real potential to teach him that God is a certain kind of right wing christian God and that science is not real. sorry. na ga da.

but, that is just my opinion. and the more we discuss it here, the stronger I feel about it. in the past, I've tried to just ignore such issues. I guess I have to take a stance as a parent.

 

[Jdarg]

the ark is absolutely true! JK. I wasn't there so I can't really say.



nohall - I know I'm sounding like a christian basher. please don't get that idea. I am a christian, born and raised, with lots of love for my Italian culture and religion. but, to me all that is personal and does not have to do with evolution and school issues. my belief system was ingrained in me as a tiny child, and its very important to me - and that's all I am going to say about that, because it is personal and not relevant to this discussion.

its a non-issue if parents raise their children with open minds and teach them about being a true citizen of the world. IMO, ID has nothing to do with real world, especially beyond their little minds or towns in the US.

Once again, I want my child exposed to the education of world religions, which includes a zillion fascinating creation stories, including ID. in the appropriate class setting. outside science.

The Ark is a wonderful story, if a little scary when God gets that angry at the world, and I was taught that it is a real story. It has its own reason to exist in the bible. This won't hurt my child's view of the real world if he's taught the same. But, ID has a real potential to teach him that God is a certain kind of right wing christian God and that science is not real. sorry. na ga da.

but, that is just my opinion. and the more we discuss it here, the stronger I feel about it. in the past, I've tried to just ignore such issues. I guess I have to take a stance as a parent.

Amen!

Seriously, I do understand what you are saying. We have a daily struggle of what we want our kids to learn and not learn, and HOW they learn it. Sadly, so many people who are pushing ID are not pushing it for the right reasons, but, as you said, a way to try and get that Christian foot in the public secular school door. If it was a tolerant Christian foot coming through the door, fine, but I think time and time agan we have only seen the agenda pushers, which puts us immediately into defensive mode. I have to trust my gut when my alarm bells go off!

 

[Smiling JOe]

...

The Ark is a wonderful story, if a little scary when God gets that angry at the world, and I was taught that it is a real story. It has its own reason to exist in the bible. This won't hurt my child's view of the real world if he's taught the same. But, ID has a real potential to teach him that God is a certain kind of right wing christian God and that science is not real. sorry. na ga da.
...

Who knows? I sure don't. I do remember after the mess of Hurricane Katrina messing up NOLA, there were people saying that God did it to punish the people in NOLA for all the sinning going on there. The story of the Ark, reminds me much of what those people were saying in NOLA.

 

[TooFarTampa]

its a non-issue if parents raise their children with open minds and teach them about being a true citizen of the world. IMO, ID has nothing to do with real world, especially beyond their little minds or towns in the US.

Once again, I want my child exposed to the education of world religions, which includes a zillion fascinating creation stories, including ID. in the appropriate class setting. outside science.

The Ark is a wonderful story, if a little scary when God gets that angry at the world, and I was taught that it is a real story. It has its own reason to exist in the bible. This won't hurt my child's view of the real world if he's taught the same. But, ID has a real potential to teach him that God is a certain kind of right wing christian God and that science is not real. sorry. na ga da.

but, that is just my opinion. and the more we discuss it here, the stronger I feel about it. in the past, I've tried to just ignore such issues. I guess I have to take a stance as a parent.

Great posts Toots. I also have my own personal belief system and it has nothing to do with the fact that I want HARD SCIENCE taught to my children in school. "Ideas" belong somewhere else.

I have a second grader who would rather study his umpteen animal dictionaries than go to the park. We do make him go outside and play, but he is who he is, and let me tell you this kid might be hardwired to be a scientist. And guess what? This country, this world, NEEDS scientists.

For example: If man-made global warming is indeed happening, the world's researchers (and the people who decide to listen to them) might make the difference between global disaster and a tolerable future. And you know what? I wonder if THAT is the ark story, and instead of something that has already happened, God put it in the Bible as a warning, as an allegory of what we might do to ourselves. I don't know, I just wonder. If man-made global warming is happening, I don't think God is going to swoop down and rescue us. He would want us to use our brains (and science) to make it better. While we pray.

 

[Smiling JOe]

TFT, I like FACTS being taught to our youth, too. However, without presenting ideas, we are limiting our children's education. You cannot fully teach science without teaching ideas. Facts known to humans, don't just occur one day in a school book. Every proven fact in science, begins as a thought or idea. That is step one in proving a fact. We need to teach or young scientists to think for themselves, and give them the tools of the search for knowledge, in order for them to become scientists.

just my two Euros.

 

[TooFarTampa]

TFT, I like FACTS being taught to our youth, too. However, without presenting ideas, we are limiting our children's education. You cannot fully teach science without teaching ideas. Facts known to humans, don't just occur one day in a school book. Every proven fact in science, begins as a thought or idea. That is step one in proving a fact. We need to teach or young scientists to think for themselves, and give them the tools of the search for knowledge, in order for them to become scientists.

just my two Euros.

Hey, thanks for the Euros! :funn:

I like your IDEAS, SJ, I think you would make a great philosophy teacher.

 

[Smiling JOe]

I have too many questions to be a decent philosophy teacher, but thanks. I once took a philosophy class which was focused on proving the highly-praised worldly philosophers wrong. It was one of the best classes I have ever taken.

 

[Teresa]

TFT, I like FACTS being taught to our youth, too. However, without presenting ideas, we are limiting our children's education. You cannot fully teach science without teaching ideas. Facts known to humans, don't just occur one day in a school book. Every proven fact in science, begins as a thought or idea. That is step one in proving a fact. We need to teach or young scientists to think for themselves, and give them the tools of the search for knowledge, in order for them to become scientists.

just my two Euros.

great point SJ. I am sure I can speak for TFT and say that we definitely agree with teaching ideas in science and in all areas of curriculum. I too have a future scientist on my hands (I have to make him leave his space toys and dinosaur movies and animal books and earth crust experiments, etc, and make him go outside and try to ride a bike). I hope he gets to learn everything under the sun that helps him think critically and think creatively, and love the process of learning more and more. btw, he has received a real love of learning in his little montessori school - they have encouraged and supported all of his interests in the make up of the universe, from solar system to volcanoes to geography and you name it. I don't think they would ever limit his understanding in any way.

However, when science is the subject at hand, I am quite confident that a christian group's recent writings and ideas of creation will not be anywhere near the core of the curriculum. and this is all I ask. he wants to be a scientist, and he will be one in some capacity. hopefully he will seek only truth.

you know, 6 years ago when I heard about intelligent design and certain groups trying to implement this in the schools, court cases, etc, I thought it was kind of sad, but I didn't really care or attempt to understand the "idea" they were trying to pass off as science. I have a 6 year old now. I do care greatly, as you can see. Funny how things change quite drastically when a kid pops onto the scene.

 

[Teresa]

I have too many questions to be a decent philosophy teacher, but thanks. I once took a philosophy class which was focused on proving the highly-praised worldly philosophers wrong. It was one of the best classes I have ever taken.

you would be an outstanding philosophy teacher by making your students ask too many questions as you do.

my brother is a priest who has a few master's degrees in philosophy and theology. even though he is a devout/conservative catholic priest, he loved learning about philosophers, and was totally drawn into these classes, the discussions, and the opening of the mind to all kinds of thought processes and possibilities.

this kind of education is so important to church leaders because their minds must be wide open at all times to understand the nature of mankind. at the same time, his respect for mankind's scientific endeavor is incredible. during his first assignment at a huge church in Bham, he taught religion in a k-12 catholic/montessori school. he loved the experience. and he saw first hand that even in a catholic (very christian) school where many ideas were presented in the curriculum, the science classes and other courses were not in the least guided by catholic dogma. they were pure as far as making sure the best possible education was presented without bias. it's all very interesting how the church perceives no threat by science. there is no conflict. and there is no substitute for evolution theory or any other academic pursuit. keeping it real and honest for our children is just the most important thing we can do for them.

 

[Teresa]

I have a question about science teachers. I don't really know any. Are there science teachers who believe in or accept ID, but must stick to the facts in the classroom?

or are there science teachers who not only believe in ID, but are trained to teach the material, so they use this as their content when teaching evolution? do they get to make that choice?

what are science teachers trained and/or prepared to teach in the classroom? maybe this is the real question.

I would say most teachers believe in God, but they aren't going to teach about God. So, if a teacher believes in ID, an argument for the existence of God, does that mean she is going to teach it in place of evolution?

Is ID really accepted by schools now?

I'm confused.