Feels hopeless.....

[maark]

we are a pretty insular and stupid little spot on the map that will never evolve or be a dynamic, interesting place. Agrestic with moneyed rednecks....what a nightmare.... I'm saying that people who belittle the ideas of others and don't embrace a diversity of thought are rednecks. Small-minded, backward, insular, rednecks.

Pardon me. I am new here BUT the above statements "belittle the ideas of others". Surely you can agree those statements are belittling. If so you have become a redneck by your own definition.

I wish to congradulate you. The term redneck was originally coined to describe hard working field hands that toiled in the fields under the sun producing foods and capitalistic goods for others that did not feel they were low enough to work at such labor. That labor produced "farmer tans" and "rednecks". Generally those who coined the phrase profited on the redneck's labor by multiples of what the redneck received for compensation.

I have worked on both sides of the issue. I believe the term "redneck" should be a moniker of pride.

I would hope that your intent was not to catagorize hard working people as "small minded, insular" folks whose opinions mean nothing to the elite who had the fortune to avoid hard work and meaneal labor to gain their status as devine leaders.

My experience has been that EVERYONE forms their opinions from their experiences. ALL opinions are valid! I encourage everyone to actually listen to others' opinions in light of the speaker's experiences. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have traveled the world or been exposed to such diverse foriegn cultures as southern California or Brooklyn, New York, much less the suburbs of Taegu, Korea or the Pier at. Vernazza. Embrace others' thoughts to modify and strengthen your own.

Debate is a powerful form of growth.

Isolation and rote rejection is death of one's inner self.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. A new issue of "Inspector Morris" is on TV so I am getting off my soap box for now... quite a storm out there in SRB...

 

[hnooe]

quote]

Wow maark ! Welcome...I can't wait to hear you express yourself on future threads! You hit on one of my mantras, "Expand your view of the World and you automatically expand your vision of yourself, and the way others see you!"

Excellent!

 

[flspearit]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veO_bGXuR6U"]YouTube - The Battle for America Montage[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmLB1xNrlFU"]YouTube - THOUGHTS FROM WITHIN[/ame]

 

[rapunzel]

Pardon me. I am new here BUT the above statements "belittle the ideas of others". Surely you can agree those statements are belittling. If so you have become a redneck by your own definition.

I wish to congradulate you. The term redneck was originally coined to describe hard working field hands that toiled in the fields under the sun producing foods and capitalistic goods for others that did not feel they were low enough to work at such labor. That labor produced "farmer tans" and "rednecks". Generally those who coined the phrase profited on the redneck's labor by multiples of what the redneck received for compensation.

I have worked on both sides of the issue. I believe the term "redneck" should be a moniker of pride.

I would hope that your intent was not to catagorize hard working people as "small minded, insular" folks whose opinions mean nothing to the elite who had the fortune to avoid hard work and meaneal labor to gain their status as devine leaders.

My experience has been that EVERYONE forms their opinions from their experiences. ALL opinions are valid! I encourage everyone to actually listen to others' opinions in light of the speaker's experiences. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have traveled the world or been exposed to such diverse foriegn cultures as southern California or Brooklyn, New York, much less the suburbs of Taegu, Korea or the Pier at. Vernazza. Embrace others' thoughts to modify and strengthen your own.

Debate is a powerful form of growth.

Isolation and rote rejection is death of one's inner self.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. A new issue of "Inspector Morris" is on TV so I am getting off my soap box for now... quite a storm out there in SRB...

You misunderstand me, Maark...and take a tossed out point for discussion and use it to attack me. I love having my feelings hurt first thing in the morning. Kudoes.

The comment about Authoritarian vs. Libertarian was meant to spark conversation, not represent my views. The political forum is, after all ,supposed to be a place where people debate ideas not attack each other. Granted, I used the word redneck in it's pop culture comments to characterize my opinion of someone who would make disparaging remarks about someone's heritage and world view in such a hurtful way. I'll own that, and don't consider it a personal attack on another poster in any way. Are you defending what that person said and the people who nodded in agreement?

The thoughts that prompted the Authoritarian vs. Libertarian as opposed to Conservative vs. Liberal was meant to illicit responses about what appeals to people who consistently vote Republican about the Republican party. I don't hear a lot of people talking about issues they agree with the Republicans on -- it's often more about the "branding" from my point of view. I hear people say they want fiscal responsibility, not tax and spend liberals. Yet, they vote for mortgage and spend Republicans. They say they don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, yet they vote for anti-gay marriage candidates. They say they support freedom, but they vote for people who champion FISA and make it possible to eavesdrop on every phone call and email in the US by routing them overseas. They support free markets, but their votes elect people who support tax breaks for oil companies and refuse the renew tax credits for wind and solar power technology, which also negates that Republican voter's desire to end our addiction to foreign oil http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/o...em&ex=1214366400&en=1d288dfdedd325e6&ei=5087 .

And the Solid South comment you all attack me on, well that's not something I made up. It's something that every political science and history professor, every political commentator, every pollster acknowledges. When I have discussions with people from other parts of the country -- serious, intelligent people -- they dismiss the South and ask me things like, "Do you really think white Southerners will vote for a black candidate?" In my heart of hearts, I believe they will. I'm not naive enough to believe they'll all vote for a black candidate -- but I also don't think that subset of racist voters would be any bigger in the South than it would be in any other region. I think that if Colin Powell had been the GOP nominee in 2000, he'd have won Alabama and Georgia, just as handily as GWB did.

I don't think the South is solid because of racism, but I didn't want to start off the discussion with my opinion. I wanted to hear the thoughts of others and let that shape an idea that was forming in my head -- sparked by this thread and the "Where are you on the Political Spectrum?" thread.

It goes back to the purpose of this thread -- to understand how people we like and respect can think so differently than we do. How they can defend and remain loyal to a party that has not lived up to it's promises, that has taken us, in the opinion of much of the world, from a beacon on a hill to country no better or worse than anyone else big enough to have a place on the UN Security Council in just five terms. These people will admit that they don't like their candidate that much, but are adamant another term with that party in office is absolutely critical, an Obama presidency would be the end of the world as we know it. Maybe it's just me and Chickpea, but I think some of us have a hard time wrapping our head around that. I don't think it's racism, but I can't tell you what it is. So, I wanted to have a discussion.

Instead, I get reamed -- first for being so ignorant as to think the south is solid. I wonder if you'll go after that liberal wing nut Goldwater next? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy[/URL ] Second, my comments are taken out of context and twisted around to make me seem like an elitist snob. Devoid of irony, maybe my comments seem hurtful, but I was commiserating with a friend who sounded as if she'd had an experience I have shared, one that made me profoundly sad for weeks. Plus, foreigners like irony. ;-)

The best part, the person doing the reaming does it in the guise of a newly minted persona so as to remain anonymous. When I met with Cindy Meadows shortly after she decided not to run for re-election, I encouraged her to read the comments people had left about her announcement if she ever for a moment felt unappreciated. She responded that she never looked at any site where people could leave anonymous comments about non-anonymous people. I get her point now. It truly isn't fair -- and as I try to be more active in the community I find it's bleeding over into my real live, this perception that I attack on a personal level. Frankly, it's becoming hurtful to look at this board on a daily basis. I hate that I'm upset by who is ugly to me and who thanks them for it.

So, kudoes to you Maark. You hid behind a spanking new identity, attacked me by making me seem the mutilating a quote beyond recognition, and colored perceptions of a completely innocent topic for discussion. You've taken someone with bona fide redneck cred (ask traderx, he'll vouch for my poor millworking Southern lineage) and painted me elitist and mean. Plus, we changed the subject! Awesome. I think it was the perfect demonstration of what started this whole thread.

Intellectually honest debate is a form of growth.

 

[Andy A]

we are a pretty insular and stupid little spot on the map that will never evolve or be a dynamic, interesting place. Agrestic with moneyed rednecks....what a nightmare.... I'm saying that people who belittle the ideas of others and don't embrace a diversity of thought are rednecks. Small-minded, backward, insular, rednecks.

Pardon me. I am new here BUT the above statements "belittle the ideas of others". Surely you can agree those statements are belittling. If so you have become a redneck by your own definition.

I wish to congradulate you. The term redneck was originally coined to describe hard working field hands that toiled in the fields under the sun producing foods and capitalistic goods for others that did not feel they were low enough to work at such labor. That labor produced "farmer tans" and "rednecks". Generally those who coined the phrase profited on the redneck's labor by multiples of what the redneck received for compensation.

I have worked on both sides of the issue. I believe the term "redneck" should be a moniker of pride.

I would hope that your intent was not to catagorize hard working people as "small minded, insular" folks whose opinions mean nothing to the elite who had the fortune to avoid hard work and meaneal labor to gain their status as devine leaders.

My experience has been that EVERYONE forms their opinions from their experiences. ALL opinions are valid! I encourage everyone to actually listen to others' opinions in light of the speaker's experiences. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have traveled the world or been exposed to such diverse foriegn cultures as southern California or Brooklyn, New York, much less the suburbs of Taegu, Korea or the Pier at. Vernazza. Embrace others' thoughts to modify and strengthen your own.

Debate is a powerful form of growth.

Isolation and rote rejection is death of one's inner self.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. A new issue of "Inspector Morris" is on TV so I am getting off my soap box for now... quite a storm out there in SRB...

Maark, may I say "welcome" and you hit the nail right on the head with your post. I am married to one of those "rednecks" as you defined them and I am pretty much one myself, readily admit it and am proud of it when the term is used in the context of your admirable and correct definition. The quote, whose ever it was, was the epitome of a very elitist mindset, IMO. As hnooe2000 said, I, also, will look forward to your future posts.

 

[maark]

Your video clips are profoundly young in substance and outlook. Thanks.

I vaguely remember being young. I remember manual transmissions and no power steering and roll down windows. I remember no AC in July and August.

I also remember feeling strongly about "back to nature". I was an almost hippie in the mtns of NC in the 70s. Miserable life... but one learns how to stay numb. The military gave me two years of lessons in numb inducing practices. I wasted a few years of my life trying to grow organic peppers and strawberries for the wealthy wanna be hippies in Atlanta.

I see the similarities with todays youth in some ways... I say enjoy the energy and dedication of youth but question the myth of "the good ole days". Don't waste too much time looking back. The world has never been better and never have young people had so much opportunity.

Politicians have always been corrupt. We gravitate toward actors for political leadership now. If they are good speakers and present themselves well we elect them. Substance is difficult to define in a media world that wants all politicos to be news anchor types. Good hair, nice smile ... must be a good leader.

Are political views are so polarized that compromise has totally dissappeared. I remember when all politicians spoke of their oponents in congress as the "gentleman from Florida" or the "lady from North Carolina". Such civility is gone. No one will admit the other side has EVER done anything good for the people. Debate and discussion have become shouting matches that try to get in a good "sound bite" for the evening news. Neither side hears anything from the other side. The facts so neccessary for good debate are twisted and cropped to fit the view. No one can trust facts anymore.. I think it might be permanent.

Don't waste a lot of time hoping government will solve the world's problems. We have a much better mechanism for that... Capitalism. Embrace it. It is sometimes slow to react but it always follows market forces. Even General Motors has finally decided that Horse Power is not everything as has been their mantra for 60 years. General Electric Corp almost went under in the 60s but now is one of the world biggist producers of wind turbines. Westinghouse Corp didn't follow the market and is a marginal company now.

Regardless of the doomsday outlook of the media the world is embracing change in many profound and good ways.

 

[rapunzel]

we are a pretty insular and stupid little spot on the map that will never evolve or be a dynamic, interesting place. Agrestic with moneyed rednecks....what a nightmare.... I'm saying that people who belittle the ideas of others and don't embrace a diversity of thought are rednecks. Small-minded, backward, insular, rednecks.
Maark, may I say "welcome" and you hit the nail right on the head with your post. I am married to one of those "rednecks" as you defined them and I am pretty much one myself, readily admit it and am proud of it when the term is used in the context of your admirable and correct definition. The quote, whose ever it was, was the epitome of a very elitist mindset, IMO. As hnooe2000 said, I, also, will look forward to your future posts.

Andy A., I've net your wife and she does not meet the definition of a redneck. A redneck is defined as, "A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude." Your wife seemed neither provincial nor bigoted. I know your wife would not have made disparaging remarks about the race or ethnic group of the father of someone she was talking to -- especially not someone as sharp and just freaking interesting as Chickpea.

Andy A., when I met you in real life you seemed so nice and genuinely likable. Yet, every time someone posts something negative or hurtful directed at me, you thank them. It's hard for me to reconcile how someone I could like could do that so often and with such consistency. These aren't ideas you're choosing to confront me about, or statement that might be taken wrong that you're asking me to clarify.

 

[scooterbug44]

Wow, this thread certainly demonstrates that people can't discuss even general political ideas without the conversation deteriorating into "parties/teams" or feelings getting hurt.

The other day at brunch, we were wondering how our group could have so many political discussions and still remain friends. We have a variety of different/conflicting views and usually are talking about hot button topics while drinking, yet it doesn't cause problems. Finally figured out it's because we can let stuff go, have a sense of humor about it (IMO you have to joke about politricks or you'll go crazy from the illogical ineptness of it and the clowns that get elected), and can agree to disagree.

 

[Mango]

I only want to say one thing. I haven't met or broke bread with everyone on this thread, but, I do suspect one thing in my heart. That if something tragic happened to me or mine, or there was a national tragedy, regardless of political affiliation or ideological beliefs, that each and everyone of you would band together as a community to assist and help in any way possible.

Perhaps that is all the hope we need. Perhaps it is too simplistic, but, often forgotten when we delve into specifics in everyday life, we forget the broad.

 

[Hollibird]

Religion at work

I thank God (ha ha, pun intended) that I don't have to discuss religion where I work now, as I am agnostic. I worked for a real estate company and they would actually say prayers before our meetings. My husband has a fanatic at work that is constantly telling him he will go to hell if he doesn't believe and that my kids will too, if they aren't baptised. Keep it to yourselves!! I do!