Florida-style edukashun

[30ashopper]

How so?

Not so much directly, I feel they give educators a bad rep, which restricts funding. Unions protect bad educators and schools that underperform. The system is inefficient thanks to the activities of the unions. Get the unions out, give school management more control, and funding and quality will likely improve.

Seriously. How is it the unions fault?

Really. I am at a loss. In a state with no income tax and government that consistently cuts education funding how can you legitimately believe that?

Aside from the changes between 2008 and 2009, education funding has increased sustantially over the last couple of decades. I believe both Crist and Bush increased spending per pupil. If you think education funding has steadily declined, please provide some references. I'd be interested in seeing the numbers.

I blame the voters for electing officials who devalue education. Yes, parents included. Oh, wait............ They might have been educated by the same system.

As I stated previously, education is the largest line item in the Florida state budget.

Where were you educated 30ashopper?

What business is that of yours, and why do you care? Why do you always ask these silly questions? Have I ever eaten with a Muslim, yes. have I ever called in sick at my job, no. Did I go to public school? yes. If you are trying to make a point, please follow through because your questions often seem pointless.

Me? North Carolina. Crap system on the whole. I don't blame the unions, there, if my memory serves, aren't any. Nonetheless crap system. WEIRD HUH? WEIRD.

Maybe you should support education reform candidates when you go to the polls? I do.

But seriously. I hope that at some point the dialogue about education can get past party lines. This isn't about unions.

The quality of our education system isn't at least partially about unions protecting bad educators in the field and resisting reform? I beg to differ.

the unions are to blame for what?....and of course, all teachers must be in the union. how many in this discussion teach or have a family member in education?

Who forces all public educators to be in unions, play by union guidelines, and pay union dues? The unions.

 

[amp in srb]

NoHall. Word Up!

That's it. That's all.

Amen and yes please.

I hear you loud and clear.

 

[amp in srb]

Come on. Please can I have someone blame this one someone else? It might take the sting away. It might make me feel like the system wasn't totally failing. Oh wait. Oh. Oh.

But it is. No matter what we say. This thing is dying a slow and painful death and there are people blaming underpaid teachers for inflicting a gunshot wound to the chest actually perpetrated by a society ill-equipped to deal with this issue. Maybe not ill-quipped but not willing to equip itself. Seriously ridiculous.

 

[Bob Wells]

I don't blame the teachers, I blame the unions.


How in the world is the Union at fault. Many of the things being discussed in this thread do not take into account that teachers are the most underpaid and under appreciated of all public servants. I can remember in my youth how teachers seemed to be available. I'll venture to guess they weren't and aren't compensated for all the time they put toward their work. I know teacher take money out of their own pockets for their classroom. Pay them what their worth, quit making our future a step child. Because Florida has reduced funding to 2004 levels, Florida may not qualify for Federal assistance. As for the Lottery, after passing that program, funding was cut and local School Boards were mandated to raise local taxes to fund the District and Lottery funds were only available for enhacement projects.

 

[30ashopper]

No reply?

None?

Okay. Point understood. Understood, as in you have none.

I appreciate the consistency Bob.

I taught for quite a while in public schools, have family in education and am currently in social services providing mental health services for children and adolescents in foster care. I have by no means stepped away from public service. The struggle of education is the struggle of all children. Most of the fiscal issues in education can be applied to many other helping professions and the people they serve. That said.......unions are not the problem. FUNDING IS THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM.

More specifically, those who can idly sit by blaming unions and workers are the problem. Do your part. Either pick up a piece of chalk or get out of the way.

Throwing money at the problem never solves anything. We need education reform first, then we can talk about more funding, if it's necassary.

 

[amp in srb]

30Ashopper. Seriously?

Where are your numbers? Account for inflation. Account for cost of living. Account for per pupil classroom inclusion. Account for population increase. Account for stagnation in teacher pool. Account for anything.

Funding is decreasing right now. Don't change the subject.

Largest line item. Sure. Who's the governor? A republican. Cut cut cut. Voters vote to cut. You also must account for the large number of retirees living in the state who have absolutely no investment in the education system. Maybe i'm criticizing the people. Maybe i'm not. I'm just saying. They screwed up electing the officials overseeing the budget currently.


30Ashopper-
I ask these questions because they are relevant. They provide insight into comments. You are often mean to others, disparaging to groups of people, such as unions, and I feel that you deserve to be challenged for that. Simple. You conveniently sit behind a computer all day (by your own admission) yet you prescribe solutions to the ills of those around you who for various reasons have to interact with THE REAL WORLD. If the questions bother you, I understand. Don't answer.

How would you know who I support and where? This is the Panhandle. WTF education reform is gonna get passed here? I vote. Oh how I vote. Quite trying to pull my card.

Where is your data? Where?

What's wrong with unions? What? What? What? What? Do stay at home computer people have unions?

Quit with the fingerpointing.

 

[30ashopper]

Come on. Please can I have someone blame this one someone else? It might take the sting away. It might make me feel like the system wasn't totally failing. Oh wait. Oh. Oh.

But it is. No matter what we say. This thing is dying a slow and painful death and there are people blaming underpaid teachers for inflicting a gunshot wound to the chest actually perpetrated by a society ill-equipped to deal with this issue. Maybe not ill-quipped but not willing to equip itself. Seriously ridiculous.

I don't blame teachers in general, although clearly some need to get the boot. I blame the system. We need reform because the current system, regardless of how much money you throw at it, clearly isn't working. The quality of education in states that funnel billion more into their public education systems are just as bad. More money here in Florida will not solve the problem.

 

[NoHall]

Not so much directly, I feel they give educators a bad rep, which restricts funding. Unions protect bad educators and schools that underperform. The system is inefficient thanks to the activities of the unions. Get the unions out, give school management more control, and funding and quality will likely improve.

Maybe you should support education reform candidates when you go to the polls? I do.

The quality of our education system isn't at least partially about unions protecting bad educators in the field and resisting reform? I beg to differ.

Who forces all public educators to be in unions, play by union guidelines, and pay union dues? The unions.

This is one of the reasons I really LIKE being at a private school. I'm paid less, I don't have the retirement benefits and job security of public schools, but as a former small business owner I feel like I have some personal responsibility.

If I'm not doing a bang-up job, students drop out of my class. If I have no students in my class, I'm not attracting new students to my school. If my school is bleeding and I'm part of the problem rather than the solution, I'll be kicked to the curb.

Furthermore, I work in a school where all my co-workers understand this. We support each other, and we work to be sure the boys succeed. We want them in West Point, the Naval Academy, the Air Force Academy, the Citadel, VMI, MIT, the Ivy leagues. If they succeed, their brothers and neighbors will be our new students. Their friends' parents will send them. I hate the "education as a business" metaphor, but I can't deny that the accountability of it is good.

Of course, I'm one of those crazy conservative libertarians who wants to get government out of school, marriage, medicine, and everything else that matters...

 

[amp in srb]

There are multiple sources and means for education policy reform not enacted by the last 8 years of federal governance. Philosophical educators are plenty. They have great ideas and are quite pragmatic. But it means **** if no one backs them. Money talks. Same as it ever was.

 

[30ashopper]

This is one of the reasons I really LIKE being at a private school. I'm paid less, I don't have the retirement benefits and job security of public schools, but as a former small business owner I feel like I have some personal responsibility.

If I'm not doing a bang-up job, students drop out of my class. If I have no students in my class, I'm not attracting new students to my school. If my school is bleeding and I'm part of the problem rather than the solution, I'll be kicked to the curb.

Furthermore, I work in a school where all my co-workers understand this. We support each other, and we work to be sure the boys succeed. We want them in West Point, the Naval Academy, the Air Force Academy, the Citadel, VMI, MIT, the Ivy leagues. If they succeed, their brothers and neighbors will be our new students. Their friends' parents will send them. I hate the "education as a business" metaphor, but I can't deny that the accountability of it is good.

Of course, I'm one of those crazy conservative libertarians who wants to get government out of school, marriage, medicine, and everything else that matters...

Amen to that.