Hands Across the Sand-Join us to stop near shore Oil Drilling In Florida Waters

[murphrg]

Hi Bob,

Thank you for having the courage to share your identity. We do not agree on this issue but I respect you very much for sharing your opinions as you rather than sticking with the relative anonymity of an avatar and a screenname.

I am satisfied that A) you are really a geologist and that B) you do care about the environment. That said, I stand by my assertions in my response to your original post.

I really put a lot of effort into reading and trying to understand your words and I spent a great deal of time typing a response to them. It is disappointing that rather than clarifying your points that you instead just write me off as someone who feels good/indulges himself by protesting loud. It is a shame that instead of refuting my argument that you refer to it as a "diatribe".

My name is George. I enjoy the art of conversation/communication and I like to argue. I feel the need to point out faulty arguments on all sides of a debate, especially when they might seem credible on the surface. I live in Santa Rosa Beach and my avatar is a picture of me.

I know nothing about geology or sniffing out oil fields. But I can smell BS 60 miles offshore. (that last jab was intended to be playful)

We agree to disagree, I don't have the time to go over everything I wrote, have to leave town to afford living here. I will say that I have personally been on some 60 drilling operations over the years, many of them offshore, and the effluent from the folks wadding in the surf on any given summer day far exceeds any polution I have ever whitnessed offshore. (also intended to be playful) I mention the joy of standing together in protest because I have been there and know how empowering it is.
Cheers!

 

[Geo]

"too" i don't recall taking any classes with you nor do i know what the "truth tree" is (shruggy face emoticon) so break out whatever helps guy (sunglasses slightly cocked mouthy face emoticon) in the end it doesnt matter...no bill has been filed yet so dave is way ahead of the game...however in addition to holding hands, it is going to be much more important to vote with your wallets, thats how oil interests are going to win, start a 527, raise money and use it to support candidates that are opposed and defeat it that way, politicians respond to money thats why this is even an issue...i dont think long long term implications are being considered by the likes of haridopolis and cannon. this is an issue because the state needs money, our state constitution requires a balanced budget every year, they jacked up our "fees" last year so what can they do this year, i guess cutting costs and reducing the state payroll is not an option. far more is to be made off of people who come to visit than off of the proceeds from oil rigs. but what do i know i have no skin in the game, you say less tourists i hear less people driving below the speed limit in the passing lane, no parking problems in grayton, no crap left on the beach, and a lower cost of living which all sound pretty good to me (winky face emoticon)

In your last post you said you thought I made an invalid reductio ad ridiculum argument. I am quite familiar with fallacies in argumentation from an elementary logic class (one of my favorites) I took in college. I figured you must have taken a similar class too. Guess not. Maybe you just like to speak in Latin. haha

Sorry you don't like emoticons.

I agree with you that the opposition to drilling will need to put money where their mouth is.

 

[jjnole04]

from the Florida Today Yesterday

Our views: Drilling for answers
Florida Today, 10/28/2009


Forum today will explore move to OK oil drilling off Florida's Gulf coast
To drill or not to drill, that's the big -- and very controversial -- question.
And it's a question that needs the most rigorous examination, because ending the more than two-decade ban on drilling for oil off Florida's Gulf coast would have major, long-term ramifications for our state.
The battle lines are drawn:
The oil companies and their supporters in the Legislature are pulling out the stops to approve drilling within 10 miles of the coast, saying it would create thousands of jobs and pump billions of dollars into Florida's bone-dry budget.
Opponents say it would put the state's environment and beach-dependent tourism industry at risk from spills and other drilling-related pollution, and the oil industry's job and money claims are overblown.
They'll meet for debate tonight in a forum at Florida State University in Tallahassee co-sponsored by the college and Gannett's four newspapers in Florida, including FLORIDA TODAY.
The 7-9 p.m. session will be Webcast live on floridatoday.com. Brevard residents can e-mail their questions to FlaForum@tallahassee.com for consideration by panelists, who will represent drilling proponents and detractors.
State Sen. Mike Haridopolos, the Merritt Island Republican and incoming Florida Senate president, will be among those on the panel. He's sponsoring the pro-drilling measure in the Senate, and during a recent meeting with FLORIDA TODAY's editorial board promised an exhaustive review of the issue.
That's good because anything else is unacceptable.
Name the oilmen
Some of what Haridopolos said worried us, especially his answer to a question about the secretive group of oilmen financing the drilling push.
Haridopolos said he didn'tknow who they were and insisted it shouldn't matter.
Actually, it matters a greatdeal, because our state's irreplaceable natural resourcesare at stake.
The public has a right to know their identities. Open government demands it to prevent oil companies with deep pockets from cutting deals behind closed doors.
If Haridopolos truly means what he says about complete transparency on the drilling issue, as the prime Senate sponsor of the bill, he should find out at once who they are and publicly name names.
Meanwhile, we can all become better informed about potential benefits and risks of drilling by listening to both sides present their views tonight.
Key GOP defections
Several key Republican lawmakers in the Senate are bucking their party and oppose drilling, according to the St. Petersburg Times.
They include current Senate President Jeff Atwater, who says he's not convinced Floridians want drilling and that it's not among his priorities for the 2010 session.
Four other GOP senators say they won't vote to approve it: Sens. Victor Crist, R-Tampa; Dennis Jones, R-Seminole; Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland; and Durell Peaden, R-Crestview.
"Once you ruin those pristine beaches, they're ruined forever," Peaden told the Times about the risk from spills. He went on to blast the out-of-state oilmen as "shysters" promoting a "shell game" at the expense of Florida's tourism economy.
That view received support recently. Top scientists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration have issued a strong warning against drilling in the Arctic, Atlantic seaboard and Gulf of Mexico in a new report obtained by the Chicago Tribune.
They say it would have a negative impact on marine life, commercial and recreational fisheries and other resources in the ocean. They recommended excluding large tracts in those areas from the federal government's draft offshore leasing plan for 2010-15.
The scientists also criticized the Interior Department's assessment of the dangers from oil spills, saying they're "understated and generally not supported or referenced."
Significantly, Mike Sole, secretary of Florida's Department of Environmental Protection, questioned the oil companies' promise that drilling would bring $2.25 billion a year into the state's budget during testimony last week before a House committee.
He said Alabama receives $50 million to $300 million annually from oil royalties and taxes and Texas takes in about $45 million a year. Florida would need a lot more than that to even consider risking the state's $65-billion-a- year tourism industry to the devastating impacts of an oil spill.
Ignore scare tactics
The oil companies have responded with scare tactics.
Florida Energy Associates, the industry's lobbying arm, released a video that says if Floridians don't support drilling and its supposed fiscal windfall, they might face a sales tax hike or state income tax.
That's not going to happen.
Conservative Republicans control the Legislature and most view raising the sales tax as a non-starter -- especially when they're up for re-election next year. To them, an income tax is even more unpalatable.
All of this and more should be on the table during tonight's Florida State forum.
Tune in.

 

[jjnole04]

from the orlando sentinel today...looks like mr cannon is losing steam
Caveat emptor on drilling
Orlando Sentinel, 10/29/2009


The gist: Wondrous claims about lifting Florida's offshore ban don't hold water.
Fortunately for Florida, Rep. Dean Cannon's quest to lift the state's offshore drilling ban is slowing. Credit the growing number of dubious claims for dragging it down.
The latest came last week during a hearing before the House Select Policy Council on Strategic & Economic Planning, when promises about the riches drilling would produce for Florida landed with a thud.
The pro-drilling group Florida Energy Associates estimates Florida can expect $2.25 billion in royalties annually by opening up its coastal waters in the Gulf to drilling. That's based in part on the assumption that it can depend on companies pumping 150 million barrels of oil annually.
Well ... Florida Department of Environmental Protection Secretary Michael Sole told the council chaired by Mr. Cannon that Louisiana produces just 6 million barrels of oil annually. And Texas -- big ol' Texas -- produces just 2 million barrels annually from its state waters. Add in its take from natural gas, and it nets an average of about $45 million a year.
The Texas General Land Office adds that all offshore drilling up to 10 miles off the Lone Star State's shores since the late 1940s has brought Texans just over $6 billion in royalties.
But Florida, somehow, can expect $2.25 billion a year?
Or maybe those wanting to drill really don't know what to expect? As a representative for Big Oil says, "we are confident there are significant reserves off Florida's coast." But he adds, "like the environmentalists [say], you won't know for sure how much is out there unless you drill and find out."
Other claims are faring little better. Or worse. Like the one that says criticism concerning the damage drilling can cause amounts to fear-mongering, because modern oil exploration's improved safety record ensures it will protect and preserve Florida's coastline.
Except 150 miles off Australia's northwest coast, for a 10th straight week, oil continues to spew up to 400 barrels a day from a state-of-the-art rig.
Four attempts to seal the leak by some of the world's leading oil well-control specialists have failed. A fifth try is scheduled next weekend.
Big Oil's defenders say a spill -- however unlikely -- off Florida's shallower waters could be sealed far more speedily.
But, quite likely, not before damaging the coast. Moreover, lifting Florida's drilling ban would likely cause the federal ban that keeps drilling 125 miles from the Gulf shore to crumble. A spill in a deep-set rig 50 or 75 miles out could present Florida with a hard-to-cap crisis like the one near Australia.
Claims by Mr. Cannon that offshore drilling will get an honest and open airing also took a hit earlier this month when the Senate leadership appointed the spouse of a lobbyist for the oil industry to head a committee that will consider a drilling bill.
Mr. Cannon also keeps talking about how all those drilling royalties can support all sorts of needy state programs, including those benefiting the environment.
But where's the discussion about how much money the state would have to devote to regulating drilling?
According to a report in Wednesday's Sentinel, Mr. Cannon now thinks he won't be able get the Legislature to vote this year on lifting Florida's drilling ban.
He's looking instead to next year's regular session.
That's a relief. This idea needs a lot more time and review, and even then it may not pass muster.
Without further scrutiny, its credibility will keep springing leaks each time it surfaces.

 

[jjnole04]

report of yesterdays forum

Offshore-drilling debate reveals upcoming battle lines
Orlando Sentinel, 10/29/2009


TALLAHASSEE -- Envision oil derricks cluttering Florida's sunset views. Oil spills threatening marine life, turning beach sand black and scaring away tourists.
Or picture a very different scenario: High-tech oil and gas operations that set a new safety standard. Thousands of good-paying jobs flooding Florida. Billions in state revenues.
Those competing scenarios emerged during a two-hour televised debate between offshore-oil-drilling supporters and foes in Florida, sponsored by the Tallahassee Democrat and Florida State University. The forum featured dueling three-member panels -- for and against drilling -- as well as two legislative leaders.
The debate hints at a grueling political battle on the horizon in Tallahassee: Whether to repeal the 1990 ban on oil drilling in Florida waters, which extend 10.3 miles from the coastline in the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico. Drilling in the oil- and natural gas-rich Gulf could become the top issue during Gov. Charlie Crist's final year in office and the Legislature's spring session, which begins in March.
Hank Fishkind, an Orlando economist in favor of drilling, said opening Florida waters to exploration promises to create 20,000 jobs and bring in more than $2 billion in revenue. At the same time, he said, the risk of an oil spill is slight.
Another drilling supporter, Southern Strategy Group adviser David Rancourt, compared drilling to putting a man on the moon. Using modern technology, Florida could drill and maintain a strong tourism industry, he said, adding: "Oil and gas exploration and beautiful beaches are not mutually exclusive."
But drilling foes say if Florida lifts its drilling ban, the state would risk its economy and environment based on an unproven promise of jobs and money. And drilling off Florida's coast won't drive down gas prices or do much toward making American energy independent, they said.
"Near-shore oil drilling will put at risk our environment, our economy, and will change Florida as we know it forever," said Pinellas County Commissioner Kenneth Welch, a drilling opponent. "Florida's coastal environment is not for sale. Why would we risk a world-class tourism economy?"
In Tallahassee this spring, an effort to repeal the Florida oil-drilling ban passed the House, but stalled in the Senate. At Wednesday's forum were Rep. Dean Cannon, R- Winter Park, and Sen. Mike Haridopolos, R-Indialantic. Both lawmakers support oil drilling -- at one point Wednesday, Haridopolos decried the "scare tactics" of drilling opponents -- but said they want to gather facts and lead a thorough review before voting.
The debate moderator, Gannett Capitol Bureau Chief Paul Flemming, pressed the pro-drilling panelists over the shadowy finances of the group lobbying for the drill-now effort. Rancourt would only say that the group includes a "God-fearing" collection of American oil and gas explorers. "Some of them wish to remain anonymous for the time being," he said, citing competitive concerns.
That didn't cut it for Florida Audubon's Eric Draper, who noted the public owns the waters petroleum interests want to explore. "We don't get at the truth when we're hiding behind the claim of anonymity," Draper said.
Josh Hafenbrack can be reached at jhafenbrack@sun-sentinel.com or 850-224-6214.

 

[jjnole04]

A heavy 'nay' in SW Fla.
Southwest Florida's News-Press, 10/29/2009


Following a lively Internet debate over oil and natural gas exploration off Florida's Gulf Coast, a group of area residents engaged in a similar discussion at The News-Press.
But the local debate was pretty lopsided: Six people were opposed; two were undecided; and one was for exploration.
During the Internet event, those opposed to exploration mentioned that tar balls are a problem on beaches in states with offshore drilling, and proponents said those tar balls come from natural seepage.
"They were saying tar balls were natural, so why don't they happen naturally over here?" said Dave Jensen, co-owner of Jensen's Twin Palms Cottages & Marine and Jensen's on the Gulf on Captiva. "I have a neighbor from Santa Barbara (Calif.), and sure enough, they have tar balls there, and they have oil drilling offshore."
Offshore drilling is not only oil rigs but also land-based infrastructure, said Charlotte County Commissioner Adam Cummings, who worked on a drill ship off Cameron, La., for a short time.
"There's a heavy offshore industry that needs a heavy onshore industry to support it," he said. "Google Cameron, La.; zoom in and see if that's the kind of place where you want to live. Look at the communities that support that kind of work and compare it to Southwest Florida."
A key argument against offshore drilling is the impact it would have on Florida's tourism, which returned $3.9 billion to Florida in tax revenue and generated $65.2 billion in direct economic impact in 2008.
An oil spill, opponents said, would be a tremendous blow to the state's economy.
"We had a recent example of how water quality affects tourism," said John Albion, director of the Fort Myers Beach Chamber of Commerce. "We had a dredging project to open Matanzas Pass, and some of the material was a little nasty. It felt mucky, and the water was cloudy before the Fourth of July, and people started checking out of motel rooms."
Another issue is the aesthetics of oil rigs along the coast, though panel members on the Internet forum said wells would actually be on the sea floor, and rigs would only be visible during construction, no more than six months.
"There's nothing romantic about catching sunset with an oil rig in the way," Fort Myers City Councilman Warren Wright said. "I've lived in California where there's offshore drilling. It's just different. It smells different."
Joe Mazurkiewicz, former mayor of Cape Coral, used to work in the oil industry in Central and South America and is undecided.
"There's too much unknown to make a decision," he said. "We need to allow someone to go in and determine what the asset is. We owe it to ourselves."
Jan Ganter, a member of the Lee County Republican Executive Committee, was the only person at The News-Press in favor of energy exploration.
"The risk-reward is worth it," she said. "If we always paid so much attention to risks, we'd never have gone to the moon. I'm tired of being held hostage because we always have to get energy from somebody else."
Members of the discussion at The News-Press for a forum on oil and natural gas exploration off Florida's Gulf Coast:
- John Albion, Fort Myers Beach Chamber of Commerce.
- Dave Jensen, Jensen's Twin Palms Cottages & Marine and Jensen's on the Gulf.
- Warren Wright, Fort Myers councilman.
- Adam Cummings, Charlotte County commissioner.
- Jan Ganter, Lee County Republican Executive Committee.
- Joe Mazurkiewicz, political consultant and former mayor of Cape Coral.
- Janet Martin, Bonita Springs councilwoman.
- Martha Simons, Bonita Springs councilwoman.
- Brad Cornell, National Audubon Society.
- Raymond Rodrigues, The News-Press editorial board citizen member alumnus.

 

[jjnole04]

lots of articles today on the subject

Cash cow or curse? Drilling experts offer familiar promises, warnings
Tallahassee Democrat, 10/29/2009


Offshore drilling would bring 20,000 new jobs and $2 billion a year to Florida, or it would doom a $60-billion-a-year industry that draws millions of tourists to Florida's pristine beaches.
Proponents and opponents traded those familiar promises, warnings and a few sharp barbs Wednesday night in a two-hour debate broadcast live on television, radio and the Internet.
Sponsored by Florida State University and Gannett Florida, the parent company of the Tallahassee Democrat, the debate featured two expert panels who participated in an often freewheeling exchange before a studio audience of about 100.
"We've got a really good coastal economy right now. Why in the world would you put that at risk?" Eric Draper, a chief opponent and veteran lobbyist for Audubon of Florida, asked.
"There's not been an oil spill since I've been alive in the United States, and I was born in 1970, and there's 4,000 rigs," said a flustered Sen. Mike Haridopolos, R-Merritt Island, and the chief proponent of lifting Florida's two-decade drilling ban in state waters.
Opponents demanded to know all of the members of the shadowy Florida Energy Associates, the driving force behind the push in the Florida Legislature, a limited liability company that has hired more than 30 of the state's leading lobbyists to push for lifting the ban.
But they continued to be frustrated.
FEA's public face is Lance Phillips, a Republican Party activist and independent oil producer from Mexia, Texas, and Doug Daniels, an attorney from Daytona Beach.
David Rancourt, a panelists and lobbyist with Southern Strategy Group, said the rest of the partners are wildcatters, or independent oil explorers who need to stay silent to protect their competitive advantage. They will disclose their names as soon as Florida starts issuing offshore leases, Rancourt promised.
It's no different from the 1970s, when mystery developers began buying up vast swaths of Central Florida for what would ultimately become Disney World, Rancourt said.
"This is a very competitive industry," he said. "Disney came into Florida in a similar way, and look at the opportunities they created."
Opponents also raised the specter of vast refineries and storage facilities that would gobble up Florida's coast if offshore drilling were allowed.
"Now you've got a full coastline," said opponent David McLain, a member of Apalachicola Bay Riverkeepers. "Imagine that refinery in your back yard."
All of the Florida oil and gas would be processed in existing refineries in Gulf States, where production has fallen to 60 percent of capacity, Rancourt pledged.
"I don't believe you can permit a refinery in the state of Florida if you wanted to," Rancourt said.
Proponents continued to hammer away at the safety of offshore drilling, pointing to studies that showed only minor spills in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
Opponents shot back with reports of recent spills, including a massive blowout in the Timor Sea off of Australia and recent tanker collisions in the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[sunspotbaby]

Carl Hiaasen always has an interesting viewpoint. Hopefully, he'll join Hands Across the Sand.

Lawmakers' love affair with Big Oil - Carl Hiaasen - MiamiHerald.com

 

[Jdarg]

Carl Hiaasen always has an interesting viewpoint. Hopefully, he'll join Hands Across the Sand.

Lawmakers' love affair with Big Oil - Carl Hiaasen - MiamiHerald.com

Let me be the first to call dibs on holding one of his hands.

 

[jodiFL]

the shadowy Florida Energy Associates, the driving force behind the push in the Florida Legislature, a limited liability company

An LLC??? WTH? How do we know that these anonymous "wildcatters" have enough in their coffers to cover the enormous cost of of a clean up should there be a spill? Or would they just use the pretty lax Florida bankruptcy laws and walk away?