Interesting turn in public records request in Escambia Co.

[Matt J]

Just remember in the good ole' US of A we have a saying:

Innocent, until proven guilty.

Not sure if the comma should be there or not.

 

[wrobert]

I in no way am stating that the person is guilty or innocent of the accusations, I'm just saying that this is the perfect opportunity to play poliTRICKS, to get someone thrown out of office, or to get someone else elected.

Catching people at this game is not rocket science. The problem is that it is just about impossible to get more than a couple of people to act in total concert with each other.

For example, during the TDC tax increase debate, I made a public records request to each county commissioner for every piece of email that they received either for or against the TDC 12.5% tax increase that eventually passed. I received emails from some, had one tell me that they got no emails about the issue. When examining the emails I could see that many were actually just CC:ed to each commissioner. Personally I thought it a bit strange when I would get four copies of dozens of emails, yet none from one commissioner who, even though according to my copies were addressed correctly, kept insisting that no emails were received at their office. I felt pretty confident in my assumption that the office was deleting public records or just lying about it. I also felt that I had enough, that if I went in front of a judge, I could have gotten someone's computer seized. But alas, it would go nowhere toward trying to stop the TDC from asking and then getting a 12.5% tax increase during dire economic times.

 

[Matt J]

Catching people at this game is not rocket science. The problem is that it is just about impossible to get more than a couple of people to act in total concert with each other.

For example, during the TDC tax increase debate, I made a public records request to each county commissioner for every piece of email that they received either for or against the TDC 12.5% tax increase that eventually passed. I received emails from some, had one tell me that they got no emails about the issue. When examining the emails I could see that many were actually just CC:ed to each commissioner. Personally I thought it a bit strange when I would get four copies of dozens of emails, yet none from one commissioner who, even though according to my copies were addressed correctly, kept insisting that no emails were received at their office. I felt pretty confident in my assumption that the office was deleting public records or just lying about it. I also felt that I had enough, that if I went in front of a judge, I could have gotten someone's computer seized. But alas, it would go nowhere toward trying to stop the TDC from asking and then getting a 12.5% tax increase during dire economic times.

I'm a little curious how many man hours and sheets of paper have been used, at taxpayers expense, for the WCTA to request public records?

 

[wrobert]

I'm a little curious how many man hours and sheets of paper have been used, at taxpayers expense, for the WCTA to request public records?

I do not know. My requests always include the statement that I will pay for anything in compliance with Florida statute, I just ask for an estimate in advance and how to make payment.

The only government entity I have ever had to pay is the school district, and they charged me time for an employee to do a request once, and the Clerk's office. I went to mediation with the prior clerk cause I wanted some data and he wanted to print it all out and then charge me 15 cents a page, but I did not need it printed, the State advised them to give me the data, and I have paid for copies from the Clerk's office, until they got really good at making pdf files, and now they just email them to me to look at and print if I so desire.

I would like to see them go ahead and put the county checkbook on line for viewing with links to the supporting documentation, I think it would save them some dollars in having to look stuff up. As for does it cost all of us money, yeppers, but it is a function of the various offices so they need to figure out how they are going to comply.

The real expense is the things that they do when a request is made. If a school board member makes a public records request, copies of any data gathered are sent to each member, for what reason, I have no idea. And many times I have heard of requests being duplicated for senior staff at government agencies, I guess they do this as some sort of strategy to try to figure out what someone is looking at. All that causes is for activists to over request documents in very vague terms so that they may find what they are seeking. If you are specific, you then have to worry about the record being destroyed or altered. While you would not think that sort of thing happens, there are allegations in an ongoing lawsuit to that affect.

 

[Matt J]

I do not know. My requests always include the statement that I will pay for anything in compliance with Florida statute, I just ask for an estimate in advance and how to make payment.

The only government entity I have ever had to pay is the school district, and they charged me time for an employee to do a request once, and the Clerk's office. I went to mediation with the prior clerk cause I wanted some data and he wanted to print it all out and then charge me 15 cents a page, but I did not need it printed, the State advised them to give me the data, and I have paid for copies from the Clerk's office, until they got really good at making pdf files, and now they just email them to me to look at and print if I so desire.

I would like to see them go ahead and put the county checkbook on line for viewing with links to the supporting documentation, I think it would save them some dollars in having to look stuff up. As for does it cost all of us money, yeppers, but it is a function of the various offices so they need to figure out how they are going to comply.

The real expense is the things that they do when a request is made. If a school board member makes a public records request, copies of any data gathered are sent to each member, for what reason, I have no idea. And many times I have heard of requests being duplicated for senior staff at government agencies, I guess they do this as some sort of strategy to try to figure out what someone is looking at. All that causes is for activists to over request documents in very vague terms so that they may find what they are seeking. If you are specific, you then have to worry about the record being destroyed or altered. While you would not think that sort of thing happens, there are allegations in an ongoing lawsuit to that affect.

Thank you for the response. I'm just glad that the WCTA isn't making up for savings with endless paperwork and payroll expenses to the county.

 

[Andy A]

SWGB, it is refreshing to see you are interested in whether the WCTA is causing an unnecessary expenditure of county funds to pursue their actions. They have a yearly fee to belong to the association among other income. Don't worry. It is my firm conviction they have your back though sometimes I disagree with their decisions and conclusions.

 

[Smiling JOe]

... When examining the emails I could see that many were actually just CC:ed to each commissioner. Personally I thought it a bit strange when I would get four copies of dozens of emails, yet none from one commissioner who, even though according to my copies were addressed correctly, kept insisting that no emails were received at their office. I felt pretty confident in my assumption that the office was deleting public records or just lying about it. I also felt that I had enough, that if I went in front of a judge, I could have gotten someone's computer seized. But alas, it would go nowhere toward trying to stop the TDC from asking and then getting a 12.5% tax increase during dire economic times.

I understand. What if the County Commissioner were receiving many spam emails, eg- ads, and began marking the ads as "Spam," to be blocked by filters? If the Spam filter mistook legitimate business emails and filtered it to the SPAM file, the Commissioner would never see the email, and might actually think he or she is complying fully with the law, when he or she says that he or she did not receive any emails on the subject. I wonder how that would play out in Court. If it was never read because it is in the spam filter, therefore never getting into the "in-box," how is he or she to know to forward it in your request?

 

[Interested Girl]

I understand. What if the County Commissioner were receiving many spam emails, eg- ads, and began marking the ads as "Spam," to be blocked by filters? If the Spam filter mistook legitimate business emails and filtered it to the SPAM file, the Commissioner would never see the email, and might actually think he or she is complying fully with the law, when he or she says that he or she did not receive any emails on the subject. I wonder how that would play out in Court. If it was never read because it is in the spam filter, therefore never getting into the "in-box," how is he or she to know to forward it in your request?

Can you say s t r e t c h?
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Smiling JOe]

It isn't a stretch at all. I check my spam filter once a week, just because legit email, including even from myself to myself (CCs), occasionally get screened out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if legit emails enter other people's spam box, if they are somewhat decent at marking spam on a regular basis.

 

[idlewind]

It isn't a stretch at all. I check my spam filter once a week, just because legit email, including even from myself to myself (CCs), occasionally get screened out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if legit emails enter other people's spam box, if they are somewhat decent at marking spam on a regular basis.

Watch out Joe, applying common sense and real life examples to a witchhunt is a futile undertaking.:roll: