Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by rocket136, Jul 5, 2007.
You also make a good point and are probably right IF what you say happens.
If armoring had not been constructed on public property in some cases, the MHWL might be past some people's living rooms and into their bedrooms in the future.
In the summer I said I wasn't sure. Now I'm sure.
SJ, assuming it never belonged to the county, it doesn't concern you or me. It becomes a private civil matter if there is any problem in the first place with the seawalls. Why do you insist on re-inventing the legal wheel on every subject you disagree with?
You also won't grasp the concept of MHWL saying that it has to be proven each time. You should be taking this up with the sheriff and his boss. They somehow figured it out when the person refused to leave the private beach. And I imagine they were flexible and reasonable in their interpretation of the MHWL that favored the "trespasser".
FWIW, yes, I would have a problem running someone off if their towel or chair was innocently only a foot or two from the wet sand line. An obvious differentiation would be an 8x8 foot tent spread out over private beach and the like.
I think its all been said now.
I'm with BeachSiO2. Let's let this all rest for now. Deal? You can have the last word.
We'll start another thread when the Supreme Court ruling is handed down.
Nice new avatar SJ they are giving birth to beach front property owners brains.Nice edit Mr Kurt, I bet BMBV slept with the night light on!!!!
Even if the beach is nourished by pumping sand from the Gulf by machine, why would you think that their would be no more charges of Trespass? Nourishment will not stop people from trying to run people off the beach.
Maybe the push has more to do with getting "FREE" money from FEMA, for future renourishment.
Re: Private Beach
Call me crazy. And like I said, the Florida Supreme Court will decide that aspect.
Now you're getting somewhere..."FREE" money to assist in the ongoing confiscation (after future erosion) of private property after the initial confiscation to make sure the beach continually extends past the initial Erosion Control Line all in an effort to support upland beach tourism.
Can you imagine 10 years from now? Growth beyond our wildest expectations and then the beaches (beyond the Erosion Control Line) are suddenly wiped out from a hurricane. All of a sudden, the public beaches become private again until they are renourished.
How long will it take the beaches to get renoursihed? Where do the thousands of upland tourists go until then? How much money will it cost then to renourish? What quality of sand will be available? Are we going to settle for off-quality sand for the sake of tourism? Will private property owners get compensated if they were to allow tourists to use the beach north of the ECL until then?
Lots of questions - a little like Pandora's box.
Just a guess, but the tourists will likely continue using the same beach which they have for years.
Here are some new changes in enforcement. I like those apples. Finally, they decided to listen to my idea. It should be up to the person filing the complaint to prove that a trespass exists, prior to someone being arrested, locked in jail. Otherwise, anyone could charge anyone else with trespassing just to have the other person arrested and locked in jail.
County looks to dodge beach privatization bullet
By Sean Boone firstname.lastname@example.org
In July 2007, a visitor from Atlanta was arrested for not leaving a private beach property near The Retreat subdivision in Blue Mountain Beach. That arrest sparked controversy over what and where is deemed off limits to the public on South Walton beaches.
At the time of the incident, the Walton County Sheriff’s Office was enforcing the wet sand line as to where a person could legally sit or loiter in front of a private beach. But since the incident, the WCSO is now enforcing a state attorney’s code that requires proof of representative authority.
According to a state attorney’s document sent to the WCSO in August 2007, a representative of the property or property owner must obtain a sworn statement from the complainant that includes the exact latitude/longitude of the trespass and have proper photographs to show landmarks around where the trespass took place.
Captain Eddie Farris of the WCSO said their enforcement would continue to adhere to what the state attorney asks of them.
“As long as we meet the state attorney’s request,” he said. “We will go by what they say.”
Under the new code, the wet sand enforcement would also be changed requiring an owner to provide the plot of the mean-high-tide area over a 19-year period.
The 1974 City of Daytona Beach v. Tona-Rama Inc. case brought beach privatization into full light, ruling that property that historically had been used as public access, could not be deemed private.
But many gray areas remain as to what is historic public access in the state of Florida.
Recently, Walton and Okaloosa County beach renourishment efforts have raised questions over what is the private beach owner’s rightful land and what is part of public beach after additional sand is added that extends property.
A lawsuit from three homeowners challenging the state’s erosion control permit was heard by the U.S. Supreme Court in April 2007, but a decision in the matter has not yet been tendered.
South Walton Tourist Development Beach Maintenance Manager David Sell said in a recent e-mail that the Remove It Or Lose It program, which removes items left on county beaches overnight, would not be able to patrol renourished beaches in the western end of the county until the Supreme Court ruling is made to determine if the area of beach is private or public.
“It is the county position that it should be public from the CCL (Coastal Construction Line) to the water,” he said. “However, we must wait to hear how the courts rule on it.”
Last year, Edgewater Condominiums in Miramar Beach fi led suit against Walton County after threats were made to remove their volleyball net, which was seen as a removable item under the TDC’s program.
“Since the code said chairs, tents, toys etc., Edgewater management thought the county had over-stepped its authority,” said Edgewater President Suzanne Harris. “Edgewater thought it was selective enforcement because an investigation by our attorney found there were many volleyball nets that had not been tagged, such as the one at the Whale’s Tail restaurant that was (on) public beach.”
The South Walton Fire District’s Beach Safety program currently patrols more than 26 miles of beaches in South Walton. Much of the patrolling is done by roving (vehicles) below the high tide mark of private beaches.
“The majority of our responses are on private beaches,” said SWFD Beach Safety Director Gary Wise. “Without roving patrol west of Pompano Joe’s there would be no response (on west end of county beaches).”
Walton County currently has eight public beach accesses with lifeguard towers, but according to Wise many of the private beach areas have the worst rip currents.
“Two of the worst rip current areas are in Miramar Beach (on private property),” he said. “There are 26 miles of beach. Divide that by eight and you don’t have an ideal mathematical equation.”
Wise said his lifeguards were involved with 45 rescues and more than 50 assists (helped from the water) during Memorial Day weekend – many of who were swimming in front of private beach properties.
Private beach property creates a tricky legal situation for Walton County authorities. (Sean Boone/ The Sun)
Seems symptomatic of the larger inquisition we're all paying for.
When somebody washes up on a surf board & points a finger North of where they bumped their ride; it's like: "Well I surely don't own the gulf....(today)
dirty crayloa fingered local
God put that beach here for all of us to unwind, forget about the troubles of the world and relax. The rich want to own (and rarely get out to ENJOY it) the poor and middle class want to enjoy it. This is a ridiculous issue. Thank goodness the S.O. and the S.A.O. are now appying strict guidelines for complainants. After all, the burden of proof has ALWAYS been on those that prosecute. Defendants are ALWAYS assumed innocent until PROVEN guilty.
**Note: opinions expressed herein are my own and not those of anyone associated with the WCSO...**
Tell you what
A similar situation occured a few days ago at the Retreat when homeowners forced a family to move 5', (yes 5 feet!) because they had 'encroached' on the Retreat beach.
EVERYBODY at the party I was at on Sunday was talking about this because several of them witnessed the event.
Everbody was pissed and ready to protest.
It is ridiculous that some Retreat homeowners have nothing better to do in their multi-million dollar beachfront homes but leer down on beachgoers.
Is this why you bought into this area? Pleeeeeeeeeeease, get a life!
A well managed protest in front of the offending resident would probably make a very strong point, since apparently -these folks are strung way too tight and would be horrified at the uncalculated consequences of their actions.
When I become a Multi Millionare the Frist thing Im going to do is buy back all that beach. Then I'm going to Advertise FREE BUSCH BEER!!!! After I run off all those pompas idiots, I will alow anyone who would like to use the beach the oppertunity to use it, provided of course the keep it clean, because I can't stand litter bugs. In mant other states its against the law to prohibit the public from any part of the beach any where. I sure wish it was like that here. Then I wouldnt have to walk over a mile to fish off of a jetty.
Did you know......
.........the entire Oregon Coast is a State Park? No private beaches there! (this is where the people who don't like what I have to say suggest I go there ):roll:
It is hard for me to be sympathetic to rich people complaining about people being "on their beach" when FEMA pays for their houses after hurricanes ruin them!:shock:
You may want to check the highlighted statement as I don't believe FEMA pays for the replacement of private structures in the manner that you think. The homeowner may have flood insurance through the National Flood Insurance Program of which there is coverage up to a maximum of $250,000, but so do others who live in Sowal and not along the coast. Moreover, they pay an insurance premium just like I do for the coverage they are provided.
That being said, FEMA does have two categories of funding (categories B & G) where public facilities, emergency sand placement, debris removal and other types of projects can occur on the beach that are directly beneficial to the upland owner. I just don't think there is house replacement.
FEMA, Flood Insurance nor any other public funding helped put our dune, walkover and townhomes back in place. It was all done with our private money. More than I can say for NOLA or some other places that have had disaster damage.
That is what I remembered. Thank you for your post.
This still may rank in my world as one of the saddest threads ever on Sowal. Arrested on a beach? Wow? Have we really gotten that sorry. The thought of someone calling the cops to have someone removed from "their" beach turns my stomach a bit. I would love to be witness of the person making the call. It would be quite hysterical!
911: This is 911, what is your emergency?
Caller: We are down here on the beach and some "other people" are down here on our beach.
911: I will ask again. What is your emergency?
Caller: You see this is our beach. The lot lines in our deed say that this is our beach. Could you just get someone down here to remove these people. BTW, they have tattoos.
911: OK... Seriously, what is your emergency?
Caller: Could you hurry up? One of them looked at us! It appears they are trying to just sit there and enjoy our beach. Help us!
911: Look. Did you not know that you can't really own the beach. It's like trying to own the sky.
Caller: What is you name! I need someone down here right now! One of them just laughed out loud. They seem to be enjoying themselves on our beach! Help! This could really get out of hand. These people may have friends!
And this was done with the proper DEP permitting? You decided to live on the beach front on a barrier island! Guess what folks, Walton county wins the prize for having the highest density of Village Idiots! Having lots of money doesn't mean it can buy you intelligence but it damn sure can pay for your mistakes. If your townhomes were not built on the dune system to begin with we would not be having this conversation period. It's a moot point!
Bobby J, good post.
BTW, they have tattoos. :funn:
bobbyj you make me .
Separate names with a comma.