Led away in Handcuffs

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Like I said earlier BMBV If I had a listing that said "private beach" I would remove the remarks right away. I would also be concerned if I had sold a peice and made a claim of a private beach. I see allot more liability there then selling property to people and showing them there deeded beach access conncected to supposed "private" beaches.

BTW, See the goat?

Bobby, do you really mean to say "private beach access" rather than "private beach" above?

Edited: OK I see your point...nevermind. But I have not seen a gulf front owner market their property as "private beach". I have seen hundreds if not thousands of properties marketed with "private beach access". So while we're on it, would you remove that as well if the situation is similar to the Retreat area?

 

[GoodWitch58]

Andy A. thanks for a voice of reason...

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

BMBV,
The SELLERS are the one who need to be disclosing material facts for the sale of their property, in the Real Property Disclosure Statements.

You can bet that I will be pointing out the craziness of the two thoughts of the beach ownership to anyone and everyone I can, including those who are buying property, and I might even encourage them to peacefully sit on the beach and enjoy a sunset, if they are willing to make a stand and possibly be arrested and taken to court, or face a lawsuit for damages by the property owner.

SJ, I understand your defensive position in regards to what I and 1st in '59 have thrown out at you, Bobby and every other real estate agent / broker out there.

Yes, the SELLERS should diclose this AS WELL (assuming they really knew). Sellers can't play "dumb" EITHER.

SJ, I have every confidence that if this situation comes up in your course of business, that you will do the right thing. Understand that.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

In answer to your question BlueMtBeach Vagrant, I have owned #8 at Sea Bluff since 1991. Our board, has never taken a direct position on use of our beach but NOBODY has been asked EVER to move. We do frown on the use of our walkover to access the beach, however, because of liabilty and other issues. The beach at the bottom of the bluff should be for EVERYONE as long as they are courteous and respectful. It is my opion, since I served to protect everyone's freedoms and rights, that the beach should be available to all. You can't build on it, you can't farm it and you can't do anything but sit on it and play on it. All should be able to do that.

Fair enough.

Let me ask you this: what is the nearest public access (or private access that serves large areas of inland property) to your area?

 

[scooterbug44]

Saturday I walked down the street, crossed 30A, and scooterbugged down the newly constructed (replacing the one taken out by Arlene) TDC walkway and stairs to get to the beach.

I left my flip flops at the stairs, walked less than a hundred yards to avoid a group of beachgoers in their "camp", frowned at an empty tent, and spread my towel on dry sand. Noone bothered me or asked me to move!

I attribute this to 3 major things: a relaxed neighborhood attitude, a post holiday weekend, and low density!

Quit maxing out the density and building condo blocks and there will be plenty of room on the beach for everyone!

If you build it they will come..............and crowd "your" beach!

Instead of arresting or harassing vacationers, use your energy to fight developers and variances!

 

[GRAHAM GINSBERG]

The video sucks, don't watch it dude

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEA7IwiJf98"]YouTube - Fighting to keep Florida beaches Public[/ame]

If you don't want to watch it just read it.
It took 3 hours to make because many folks called asking to explain the condition in these pathetic situations.
If you have the means to have a group discussion and video tape it, and improve and educate the public, please do so. Put it on the web so I can have a shot at it too.

Like they say, everyone has an opinion.

Until then, its all I can do and as the blogger said, it sucks, so don't watch it.......


VIDEO DIALOG:
This is an attempt to explain the proper way how many legal issues regarding beach access at our public beaches should be resolved

BUYER: I am looking for a house on the beach in Florida
Can you help me find one?

AGENT: Sure Mr. Buyer, I have one in Destin Florida, right on the beach with your property deeded into the Gulf of Mexico.
In fact it has a private beach just for you.
Sign here!

After a few months of enjoying his new home in Florida, sitting on his own private beach, Mr. Buyer noticed that tourist were trespassing on his property.
It appears that they were not aware that this was his beach and it really bothered him no end!

BUYER: Mr. Tourist. What do you think you're doing on my beach? This is my beach mister! Now get off!
Do you realize that you are trespassing on private property? This is my private beach!
Now get off or I'll call the cops!

TOURIST: You must be crazy!
Florida does not have private beaches, they're all public beaches and that's why we come here on vacation.
Call the cops, I'm staying right here and you can sue me if you like!

BUYER: Officer, please come quickly
Men women and children are trespassing on my private beach right behind my house. What is worse is that they're enjoying the beach like they've done so for over 20 years, before I even got here.
It's so unfair. Could you please ask them to leave?

OFFICER: Mr. Buyer, I'm sorry, but I cannot come out to your house and ask these tourists, who are enjoying the public beach like they've done so for over 20 years, to leave.
That wouldn't be Florida.
There is a possibility that customary use can be proven and they most likely have to every right to be on the beach behind your house.
I cannot act as judge, jury and executioner and act on your behalf.
That is a violation of the Florida constitution.
I would suggest you contact your attorney and don't bother the tourists again.

BUYER: Mr. Tourist. I'm really mad because the police won't kick you off my beach, so I'm going to sue you and prove that you're not allowed on my land ever again.

Tourist: I hope you've got deep pockets

BUYER: Florida Judge listen up. I bought this land thinking that I own all of it, the wet sand and the dry sand, because here it is in my deed and the real estate agent told me so and I believed him
Am I wrong in thinking that I don't own all this land? What happened to my property rights? This is so not American

JUDGE: Mr. Buyer. When you bought your house on the beach, you should have done your due diligence, because we have proven in this court that this beach has been used continuously for over 20 years in a manner consistent to how Mr. Tourist was using the beach.

We are sorry to tell you but the dry sand behind your house has been used continuously and uninterrupted for a period exceeding 20 years and therefore a PRESCRIPTIVE EASEMENT exists.

This easement gives Mr. Tourist the right to use, not only the wet area of the public beach, but the dry area too.

TOURIST: Thank you Judge. For a moment I thought we would have to travel to Mexico to enjoy public beaches
I would suggest Mr. Grumpy Buyer move, where your home does not border on public property because you need privacy and a beach is for all people to gather and enjoy.

Don't you just love our constitution

Thank you Mr. Buyer for paying my Legal fees. Hugs and kisses.
Florida Public beaches are for everyone

I hope you enjoyed this presentation

**************************************** **

 

[Andy A]

The closest public accesses usable are Blue Mt Beach and the one between the Inn at Blue Mt. and the Retreat.

 

[scooterbug44]

Re: The video sucks, don't watch it dude

I bought this land thinking that I own all of it, the wet sand and the dry sand, because here it is in my deed and the real estate agent told me so and I believed him

JUDGE: Mr. Buyer. When you bought your house on the beach, you should have done your due diligence

**

This sums it up for me! I often laugh out loud at some of the claims real estate agents and sellers make about properties!

 

[yippie]

Re: The video sucks, don't watch it dude

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEA7IwiJf98

If you don't want to watch it just read it.
It took 3 hours to make because many folks called asking to explain the condition in these pathetic situations.
If you have the means to have a group discussion and video tape it, and improve and educate the public, please do so. Put it on the web so I can have a shot at it too.

Like they say, everyone has an opinion.

Until then, its all I can do and as the blogger said, it sucks, so don't watch it.......


VIDEO DIALOG:
This is an attempt to explain the proper way how many legal issues regarding beach access at our public beaches should be resolved

BUYER: I am looking for a house on the beach in Florida
Can you help me find one?

AGENT: Sure Mr. Buyer, I have one in Destin Florida, right on the beach with your property deeded into the Gulf of Mexico.
In fact it has a private beach just for you.
Sign here!

After a few months of enjoying his new home in Florida, sitting on his own private beach, Mr. Buyer noticed that tourist were trespassing on his property.
It appears that they were not aware that this was his beach and it really bothered him no end!

BUYER: Mr. Tourist. What do you think you're doing on my beach? This is my beach mister! Now get off!
Do you realize that you are trespassing on private property? This is my private beach!
Now get off or I'll call the cops!

TOURIST: You must be crazy!
Florida does not have private beaches, they're all public beaches and that's why we come here on vacation.
Call the cops, I'm staying right here and you can sue me if you like!

BUYER: Officer, please come quickly
Men women and children are trespassing on my private beach right behind my house. What is worse is that they're enjoying the beach like they've done so for over 20 years, before I even got here.
It's so unfair. Could you please ask them to leave?

OFFICER: Mr. Buyer, I'm sorry, but I cannot come out to your house and ask these tourists, who are enjoying the public beach like they've done so for over 20 years, to leave.
That wouldn't be Florida.
There is a possibility that customary use can be proven and they most likely have to every right to be on the beach behind your house.
I cannot act as judge, jury and executioner and act on your behalf.
That is a violation of the Florida constitution.
I would suggest you contact your attorney and don't bother the tourists again.

BUYER: Mr. Tourist. I'm really mad because the police won't kick you off my beach, so I'm going to sue you and prove that you're not allowed on my land ever again.

Tourist: I hope you've got deep pockets

BUYER: Florida Judge listen up. I bought this land thinking that I own all of it, the wet sand and the dry sand, because here it is in my deed and the real estate agent told me so and I believed him
Am I wrong in thinking that I don't own all this land? What happened to my property rights? This is so not American

JUDGE: Mr. Buyer. When you bought your house on the beach, you should have done your due diligence, because we have proven in this court that this beach has been used continuously for over 20 years in a manner consistent to how Mr. Tourist was using the beach.

We are sorry to tell you but the dry sand behind your house has been used continuously and uninterrupted for a period exceeding 20 years and therefore a PRESCRIPTIVE EASEMENT exists.

This easement gives Mr. Tourist the right to use, not only the wet area of the public beach, but the dry area too.

TOURIST: Thank you Judge. For a moment I thought we would have to travel to Mexico to enjoy public beaches
I would suggest Mr. Grumpy Buyer move, where your home does not border on public property because you need privacy and a beach is for all people to gather and enjoy.

Don't you just love our constitution

Thank you Mr. Buyer for paying my Legal fees. Hugs and kisses.
Florida Public beaches are for everyone

I hope you enjoyed this presentation

**************************************** **

I agree with BMBV on this one. Question, why did you find the need to disguise your voice?????

 

[yippie]

This happened to me today around 5 pm on the beach in Blue
Moutain. I am an owner on Redfish Circle. I walked to the beach access
between the Inn and the Retreat and set up a chair and a towel on the
Retreat side of things. All was fine for about an hour, at which time
I was approached by a security guard and his sidekick. I was asked to move and I did. He wanted to call the Sheriff because of all the questions I was asking. He did, and I called the manager of the Blue Mountain Beach Club.
Ultimately, we had a beach-side fiesta consisting of me, two guards, two Sheriff's Office guys, and another Redfish homeowner. Where were all you Sowallers to bring me a maragarita? Sheesh!

I learned a lot today that I wanted to 'share' with the other users of this board. I believe that those of us who own on Redfish and other members
of the Beach Club/BMB Masters Association have the right to use that
access and the beach there. I also believe that the public has the right to use that beach. The Beach Club Manager had documents with him to support those facts, none of which the guards or law were keen to inspect. I should point out that there were no private property signs on the Retreat side of things, only on the Inn's side. The Inn's signs were also not lined up perpendicularly to the beach, but kind of staggered.

The Sheriff folks are sick of this guy calling all the time. They said they can always tell when he's on duty. They are enforcing the MHW line until this issue can be elevated above them. They recommended the Manager call Charlie Crist's office, or at least Cindy Meadows' office. The Gonzalez case may solve all this, but it also may have to be decided by the state Supreme Court. I promise you, if you bring up what I can only remember as the "Tony Roma" Dayton Beach case, it will be disregarded beachside. They don't care, they just want to do their jobs and this is currently their least favorite task. They are sticking to the assertion that we only have ingress/egress rights to the MHW line, where we can then plant ourselves and our stuff.

I could name the names of those who were part of my group this afternoon, but I don't think it's necessary. What is pertinent is that others know what can happen on a lovely, almost barren beach in Walton County to folks just sitting in a chair with an adult beverage reading People magazine. I wanted to warn people about this on a more personal level. I was civil, just asked a lot of questions, as any homeowner would. The one security guard in particular I had a problem with (older male, for lack of a better description, his sidekick looked barely 20) was very argumentative and harrassing. I had heard about him from my family who visited over the week of July Fourth. True to form, he seems to target singles on the beach, evidently with the assumption that they won't challenge his rights. He verbally and physically threatened my brother-in-law on Saturday, July 7th. I did not witness it, but I believe my in-law and also believe his and my sis' first-hand accounts of this rent-a-cop physically removing people's belongings from the beach. I questioned him about this, and he admitted that he has relocated 'abondoned' property. These things (chairs, bags, towels) were left unattended because their owners were swimming in the Gulf of Mexico.

Additionally, he moves these items to the western side of the public beach access. This is considered by some to be owned by the Retreat. It seems that when the Inn rebuilt the public beach access, they mistakenly built it on Retreat land, or so it seems. So this guard moves people's stuff from Retreat/Inn land to Retreat land, which he admits.

I can't afford to get arrested. I was super-civil and did all I could to (successfully) stall the guard until the Club Manager arrived and we all chatted with the Sherriff Sargeant and his coworker. I can't be the next Senora Gonzalez and keep my job. I just know in my heart of hearts that this isn't right and I've seen plenty of evidence to suport that belief. I would be very interested to hear what you others think and what you would have done. I'll be down here until early Wednesday and will be out of the beach (by the water, natch) each day. I am upset about this and in particulary how that one guard has harrassed my family. He tried to get me but must not have noticed my spine, my brain, and my cell phone!

Thanks for reading this long rant, I feel a bit better already. I should also mention that nurse sharks (some small, one bigger) were spotted on the beach in BMB today. There was at least one bull shark sighted near Fort
Panic. According to one of the Sheriff dudes, he saw it leap from the water with a 100 lb tarpon it its mouth! I will be on the lookout tomorrow, for sure.

In the heat of everyone's discussion, somehow it seems like this post got over looked. When I read it, one thing greatly concerned me. The poster said the Club Manager arrived with paperwork proving they could use the walkover and the beach, neighter the Sheriff's Deputy or the Security Guard would even look at them.

The second thing that bother's me is the security guard picking up people's personal belongings and moving them. Seems to me he should wait until the people come back and approach them. Obviously they don't know they have set up on private property.

What do you guys think?