Led away in Handcuffs

I have a little question.

Am I allowed to walk past and through these private beaches? Or will I get yelled at?

Yes, and yes.

Maybe property owners in The Retreat and the Inn at Blue Mtn should have to disclose that they own property in there before being served at any local businesses. I for one, will not be shipping via Fed Ex any more, unless this changes.

Maybe property owners in The Retreat and the Inn at Blue Mtn should have to disclose that they own property in there before being served at any local businesses. I for one, will not be shipping via Fed Ex any more, unless this changes.

???

???

My point is that if they want to run away the tourist dollar, they are also running away the locals whom work in the service industry for the tourists. I will not be selling any real estate in The Retreat or the Inn at Blue Mtn, especially when they are fighting against my livelihood and enjoyment of life. I mention Fed Ex because of the head honcho at Fed Ex owning in The Retreat -- public record.

My point is that if they want to run away the tourist dollar, they are also running away the locals whom work in the service industry for the tourists. I will not be selling any real estate in The Retreat or the Inn at Blue Mtn, especially when they are fighting against my livelihood and enjoyment of life. I mention Fed Ex because of the head honcho at Fed Ex owning in The Retreat -- public record.

These type of people don't care at all.

These type of people don't care at all.

You are right -- They won't care, until they cannot go out to eat, they cannot enjoy the beauty of the people whom interested them to the area in the first place, and when there is no one to pump fuel into their car or private jet, or gas up their yacht. Only then will they care, and they probably won't. They will probably find another place to vacation. Anyone who pays $9+ million in cash for a home, probably feels like they can piss in a golden pot. However, they are not willing to empty the pot's contents. I am not the one to do it for them.

I've got real mixed feelings about this topic. On one hand, I hate that visitors are being hassled and arrested for innocently hanging out on the beach. On the other hand I feel for the homeowners who have chosen to purchase in a private neighborhood with a private beach with the thought of their beach (or their backyard) not getting as crowded in the future as it otherwise would if it were public. IMO, both sides deserve some thought here (and NO I'm not a gulf front owner). Maybe the happy medium is defining a location, say within 10 feet or so of the wet sand, to allow visitors and leaving the rest of the dry sand as the backyard of the homeowners.

Somehow, somebody will always feel screwed in this....either the visitors in being able to enjoy their vacation, the upland owners who want to enjoy the beach, or the gulf front owners who also are beach owners that payed good money for their location.

I'm looking forward to the SC decision on this and although I realize that each case in the continuing future will probably be considered individually, I hope it somehow turns out equitable for all, where all groups will need to give up something, but the greater good is served. <-----------hokey, but true.

BlueMtnBeachVagrant have you ever heard ot the northshore WOLFPACK? Research it because if you back a dog into a corner an it will bite. Have you had a resent rabies shot? By the way are you and BMB Walker Dating?

This was just sent out by the TDC. Take a look.

Public vs. Private Beach
Frequently Asked Questions


We were enjoying the beach when we were asked to move because we were on private property. Isn?t the beach public?
The county maintains six regional beach accesses with parking and restrooms that are available to the public. Many of the county?s beaches are private due to the way many of the area?s properties were originally deeded and beachgoers who set up tents and chairs in these areas may be asked to move.

Where can the public have beach set ups?
Visitors are welcome to have beach set ups at any of the area?s public beach accesses, including regional beach accesses with parking and restrooms include Miramar Beach, Dune Allen, Ed Walline, Gulfview Heights, Santa Clara and Inlet Beach. Parking is also available at Beach Highlands, Blue Mountain, Grayton Dunes, Van Ness Butler, Jr. and San Juan.

There is a beach access at the end of the street where our rental unit is located, can we have beach set ups there?
Most public beach accesses are nestled between private properties. Beachgoers should stay within the easement of the dune walkover to set up on the dry beach. Along Scenic 30A, beachgoers who wish have beach set ups outside of these areas must be on the wet sand.

In Western Walton County along Scenic Gulf Drive, a large scale beach restoration has created additional public beach. An erosion control line (ECL), a state-required line that was established by identifying the location of the mean high water line during the permitting process, serves as the delineating line between the lands owned by the upland owner (north of the line), and lands owned by the state of Florida (south of the line). Therefore, beach set ups are permitted 35-40 feet from the water?s edge on beaches west of Four Mile Village and along Scenic Gulf Drive.

Can the public walk along the beaches?
Yes, the public is welcome to walk the beach. Beach chair set ups and loitering on private property is illegal.

yippie's last post just made me think of a good analogy (possibly) that would come from the perspective of a gulf front private beach owner.

Let's say you are an owner next to the public access and public parking at one of the public beach accesses, let's choose Inlet Beach for discussion-sake. At Inlet Beach, it doesn't seem like parking is inadequate at this time, but in a few years it could be. Visitors to the beach, whether they are tourists or upland owners, decide it's okay to park in or block your driveway so that they can have access to the beach. You decide to put up a physical obstruction like a gate to your driveway, or you decide to call the Sheriff's department to have them towed as they block access to your personal property. How far do we take this? Where do you draw the line between personal property rights and the right to access the beach?

This was just sent out by the TDC. Take a look.

Public vs. Private Beach
Frequently Asked Questions


We were enjoying the beach when we were asked to move because we were on private property. Isn’t the beach public?
The county maintains six regional beach accesses with parking and restrooms that are available to the public. Many of the county’s beaches are private due to the way many of the area’s properties were originally deeded and beachgoers who set up tents and chairs in these areas may be asked to move.

Where can the public have beach set ups?
Visitors are welcome to have beach set ups at any of the area’s public beach accesses, including regional beach accesses with parking and restrooms include Miramar Beach, Dune Allen, Ed Walline, Gulfview Heights, Santa Clara and Inlet Beach. Parking is also available at Beach Highlands, Blue Mountain, Grayton Dunes, Van Ness Butler, Jr. and San Juan.

not true -- no restrooms at Van Ness Butler, Jr., unless you are counting the port-a-john in the parking lot, which has been overturned for a couple of weeks now. Who is proofing the TDC's statements?

There is a beach access at the end of the street where our rental unit is located, can we have beach set ups there?
Most public beach accesses are nestled between private properties. Beachgoers should stay within the easement of the dune walkover to set up on the dry beach. Along Scenic 30A, beachgoers who wish have beach set ups outside of these areas must be on the wet sand..

Nothing like a ten foot strip of beach, with umbrellas and chairs twenty rows deep.

In Western Walton County along Scenic Gulf Drive, a large scale beach restoration has created additional public beach. An erosion control line (ECL), a state-required line that was established by identifying the location of the mean high water line during the permitting process, serves as the delineating line between the lands owned by the upland owner (north of the line), and lands owned by the state of Florida (south of the line). Therefore, beach set ups are permitted 35-40 feet from the water’s edge on beaches west of Four Mile Village and along Scenic Gulf Drive.

Well, that certainly cleared up everything for everyone.

Can the public walk along the beaches?
Yes, the public is welcome to walk the beach. Beach chair set ups and loitering on private property is illegal.

Maybe we should have a walk-a-thon and wear mighty-tighties.

Well, that certainly cleared up everything for everyone.

Yes, that was my reaction to that FAQ as well. I barely understand it and I live here. That is opening a can of worms if you quoted that to a guest!

That is a cut and paste of the e-mail sent out by the TDC at 4:07pm today, along with this message:

"Since there has been a number of questions regarding where beachgoers are permitted with beach set ups, we have created a Frequently Asked Questions sheet to ensure everyone is providing a clear, consistent answer to our visitors. Please share with any staff who interact guests. We appreciate you helping get this word out to visitors when they arrive. "

I guess they sent it to everyone on their mailing list.

.....How far do we take this? Where do you draw the line between personal property rights and the right to access the beach?

pgurney,
Darwin said it rather well in post #93:

"The Earth is getting very small and we are starting to bump into each other with greater frequency."

The more crowded we are, it seems the less civil we become with each other.

Darwin's regretful experience is due, in my opinion, to the business as usual attitude of (most of) the county commssioners. Their passage of many development projects with advertised "beach access" but with little to no "real" associated beach is the reason we are where we are. They stuck their heads in the sand and hoped the problem would not pop up.

They did this at Redfish Village. This is another train wreck waiting to happen. Is Nature Walk another one?

The timing is very interesting with Darwin stating that the county / TDC should be sued and the TDC issuing this FAQ letter today... or is it just coincidence?

Their passage of many development projects with advertised "beach access" but with little to no "real" associated beach is the reason we are where we are.

Uh, oh. The house we rented for August advertised "200 steps to the beach". It did not, however, say "200 steps to the public beach". Does this mean I shouldn't even bother trying to go to the beach near the house?

The timing is very interesting with Darwin stating that the county / TDC should be sued and the TDC issuing this FAQ letter today... or is it just coincidence?

I would say it was probably fueled by the attention this matter is getting today. I believe one poster said they had been contacted by the NW Fla Daily News and also, I saw a post by a person employed by the Walton Sun.

More than likely, the TDC received those same calls and felt the need to issue the memo.

I got this response today from the Walton County TDC:

I got this response today from the Walton County TDC:

[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]​

Well, that answers that, doesn't it?

I got this response today from the Walton County TDC:

[SIZE=-0][SIZE=-0]"We received your e-mail at the Walton County Tourist Development Council, and we're sorry to hear of your experience on the beach. We depend on our resort management companies to inform our visitors where they can have beach set ups, just as we depend on them to inform our visitors about beach safety and the flag warning system. We also rely on them to share recommendations for beyond the beach activities such as state parks, shopping and dining options.

To answer your question "Can visiting families be asked to move?", the answer is yes. [SIZE=-0]Many of the county?s beaches are private due to the way some of the area?s properties were originally deeded and beachgoers who set up tents and chairs in these areas may be asked to move. Visitors are welcome to have beach set ups at any of the area?s public beach accesses, including regional beach accesses with parking and restrooms include Miramar Beach, Dune Allen, Ed Walline, Gulfview Heights, Santa Clara and Inlet Beach. Parking is also available at Beach Highlands, Blue Mountain, Grayton Dunes, Van Ness Butler, Jr. and San Juan accesses....[/SIZE]."
**********************************************************
With parking overflowing at several of the public regional accesses, if the public is not allowed to sit upon the beach as they have for many years, I think the lack of parking spaces is going to present even more problems as people park illegally on the side of the roads at these regional accesses, potentially creating traffic accidents and possibly fatalities. The County better start stepping up to the plate.

[/SIZE][/SIZE]

This morning as my wife and I were returing form a shoreline walk we saw county officials asking a couple of men to move their "set up" from infront of The Retreat at Blue Mountain Beach. About an hour later my wife saw him being led from the beach in handcuffs for tresspassing. One of the men was taking pictures... maybe we'll see them post them here.

I know from reading previous posts that this is a hot button issue but it seems that some want to enforce the "letter of the law". I saw where they were placed and it was close to the water line very near the boundry of the Inn at Blue Mountain. They seemed to minding their own business. As the sherriff left I happened to walk by them and heard "I think it was the right call... where the wet sand meets the dry".

I'm confused, the beachgoers were were set up outside of the posted signs. If the owners really want to keep people out can they fence in their beach? (not that I'd want to see that)

In the many years of coming to SoWal I've always been impressed with the civility of residents and tourists -- although I have heard some horror stories. We abolutely love it here and treat it as though we already live here. But I was very surprised that it seems the owners are calling the country for what seems such a small infraction -- seems like a waste.

This was the second day in a row that I saw county officials inforcing the private beach rule.

Is the pendulum swinging?

I rented a unit at the Inn at Blue Mountain the week of July 4th and was on the beach and witnessed the arrest from about 20 feet away. The security officer spoke with the two men for about 5-10 minutes, then an officer from the Sherrif's Department arrived on an ATV. One gentleman of the pair walked peacefully with the officer to and over the beach walkover. At no time while the gentleman was on the beach or the walkover was he in handcuffs. The other gentleman was not led away or arrested to my knowledge. I assume that the officer on the ATV couldn't take the arrested gentelman to the Sherriff's office on his ATV ,which is why the officers with a patrol car were summoned.

I understand that this is a heated issue, but embellishing the facts to incite the readers on this forum makes your arguments and your report much less credible.

I would caution everyone reading the antecdotes relayed on this forum to take them all with a grain of salt.

As a renter, the situation at that beach walkover is very confusing. Apparently the homeowners and condo-owners on either side of the walkover own the beach to the MHWL, but someone else (Blue Mountain Beach Master Homeowners Association?) owns the walkover and about 10-15 feet of beach out from the walkover. So if you're not a homeowner or condo-owner or guest/renter at either place, you're limited to the 10-15 feet corridor to the beach. I paid a lot of money for the "privlege" of renting at a beachfront property with clear legal access to the beach. There are two very large, fairly uncrowded public beaches to the east and west of this walkover (TopSail and Grayton). If you want unfettered beach use and don't want to pay for beachfront lodging/use, why not go to the public beaches? Those are truly the beaches that your tax dollars are supporting and you have a "right" to use.

FYI - if you have Adobe Reader software you can see the plat for The Retreat homes here http://retreatflorida.com/plat.htm

Sorry to say but appears to me the local way of live is going the way of the native folks along the coast of Georgia. If you start calling yourselves "Resorts" sounds like the county will listen to you. This was my response to the TCD email.

Darwin, nice reply.

Nice letter, Darwin. Glad to see you aren't letting the TDC get away with their canned reply.

This whole debacle is just another classic example of how backwards Florida property laws are.

As far as I know, and I haven't researched all coastal communities nationwide, but the ocean beaches in other States that I have vacationed, the State owns the beach.
Go to a Caribbean Island like Barbados, same thing. A billion dollar hotel can be erected, but any Bajan can walk and set up beach gear right in front of that hotel without recourse.
It never struck me to ask when I bought property in Sowal if a beach was public or private, a natural resouce!

I don't feel that a gulffront property owners/deeded beach access should have riparian rights further than being able to walk to the water without obstruction, and by obstruction I mean a permanent fixture blocking that egress.

1st in 59, thanks for the informative post.
Darwin, ditto on the great reply to TDC.

I have always wondered, for a few years now, why TDC did not "inform" the public where public beach property ends and private beach property begins fully knowing that tourists will naturally (and unknowingly) encroach on private property.

So now the question is, will TDC erect signs at EACH public access detailing the extent of the public's "right" to use the beach?

Also should the associations with private easements be required to do the same thing?