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Mike B.

Beach Lover
Jan 13, 2005
170
1
46
Nashville, TN
Thanks BeachSiO2. Rock on! Crap! Forgot to ask my other question! Do you have to own property to apply for a vehicle beach access sticker or can anyone apply? I just realized this isnt related to the thread so Ill stop after this question... Sorry.
 

seacrestkristi

Beach Fanatic
Nov 27, 2005
3,539
36
I'm a long-time lurker and I don't say much but this has really struck a nerve with me! I'm admittedly uneducated on this subject but I tend to follow the Laws of Common Sense. As such, here are my thoughts.

I really don't understand why this is so complicated. The beach is for everyone to enjoy. Last I checked, no human created it. Depending on your deity/lack thereof, perhaps we should put up a sign on all beaches world-wide that says "Private Property - Owned by God/Allah/Mother Earth. No tresspassing." No one can "own" the beach. If I fish from a public beach but the fish previously swam through a privately-owned space, can I eat it for dinner or do I leave it at the doorstep of the property owner?

Sure, you don't want punks defacing your property. I understand that. But who cares if some kids or a family is sitting on the sand in front of your house? Honestly, what is the problem? Do you really think that 10-year old is going to trench under your house and cause it to collapse? Does the mere sight of a sandcastle and umbrella bother you that much? If so, why did you buy a house the beach to begin with?

Dry sand, wet sand, Tona-Roma, Supreme Court... WHO CARES. So long as you're minding your own business, pick up your belongings and trash, stay away from anyone's house or other property, what is the issue? When the neighbor's kid kicks their soccer ball into my yard do I call the cops to arrest him? No. If he wants to kick the ball around, I don't care. Again, if he starts breaking my windows or something it would be a different story. Let the beachgoers be. Come on. If you don't want to be around PEOPLE, don't buy a house in a tourist area.

The word ridiculous comes to mind.

Well put, gull! :bow: :clap: Lovely 'tar too. Did I ever say :welcome: kittyness. Well it's never 2 late 2 say :wave: , now is it?
 

JB

Beach Fanatic
Nov 17, 2004
1,446
40
Tuscaloosa
....and the moral of this thread? If you can't rent gulf front property for your vacation, then don't plan on spending time on the beach.

I guess it's good this issue is finally coming to a head. I wonder what it will take to get this issue in front of the Fl. state legislature? The law is not only unclear, it is applied in different ways by different law enforcement agencies.
 

Beachlover2

Beach Fanatic
Jun 17, 2005
819
60
SoWal
Thanks BeachSiO2. Rock on! Crap! Forgot to ask my other question! Do you have to own property to apply for a vehicle beach access sticker or can anyone apply? I just realized this isnt related to the thread so Ill stop after this question... Sorry.


Yes - you have to be a Walton County Property owner to get a vehicle permit for the beach.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
FL Supreme Court, Tona-Rama (full report)

Even if it should be found t h a t such an easement had been acquired by prescription, the defendant-owner could make
any use of the land consistent with, or n o t calculated t o
i n t e r f e r e with, the exercise of the easement by the public.
See Tifjfany, (Third Edition), V o l . 3, Section
811. The erection of the sky tower was consistent with the
recreational use of the land by the public and could not i n t e r -
fere with the exercise of any easement the public may have acquired
by prescription, i f such w e r e the case.
The beaches of Florida are of such a character as to
use and potential development as to require separate consideration
from other lands w i t h respect to the elements and consequences
of t i t l e .
The sandy portion of the beaches are of no
use for farming, grazing, t i m b e r production, or residency--
the t r a d i t i o n a l uses of land--but has served as a thoroughfare
and haven for fishermen and bathers, as w e l l as a place of
recreation for the public. The i n t e r e s t and r i g h t s of the public
to the f u l l use of the beaches should be protected. Two states,
Oregon and Hawaii, have used the "customary r i g h t s doctrine" to
afford the r i g h t s in beach property. State ex rel. Thornton v.
Bay, 254 O r e . 584, 462 P.2d 671 (1969); In re: Ashford, 50 Hawaii
314, 440 P.2d 76 (1968). See also Fla. Law Review, Easements:
Judicial and Lesislative Protection of the Public's Riqhts i n
Florida's Beaches by W. Roderick Bowdoin, Vol. XXV, No. 3, pp 586-
590 (Spring 1973).
As stated in Tiffany Real Property, (Third Edition), Vol,
3, 935:
"In England, persons of a certain l o c a l i t y
or of a certain class may have, by immemorial
custom, a right to make use of land belonging
t o an individual. Thus, there may be a custom
for the inhabitants of a certain town t o dance
or play games on a particular piece of land
belonging t o an individual, or to go thereon
in order to get w a t e r . So there may be a custom
for fishermen to dry nets on certain land,
or for persons in a c e r t a i n t r a d e ( v i c t u a l e r s )
to erect booths upon c e r t a i n p r i v a t e land during
a f a i r . The custom, to be valid, 'must have
continued from t i m e i m m e m o r i a l , without
i n t e r r u p t i o n , and as of r i g h t ; it must be
c e r t a i n as to the place, and as to the
persons; and it must be c e r t a i n and reasonable
as to the subject matter or r i g h t s
created,
. . .
"Occasionally i n t h i s country it has
been decided t h a t r i g h t s to use p r i v a t e
land cannot thus be created by custom, f o r
the reason t h a t they would tend so to burden
land as to i n t e r f e r e with its improvement
and a l i e n a t i o n , and also because there can
be no usage i n t h i s country of an i m m e m o r i a l
character. In one state, on the other hand,
the existence of such customary r i g h t s is
affirmed, and i n others t h i s is assumed in
decisions adverse to the existence of the
r i g h t i n the p a r t i c u l a r case." (pp. 623-
624)
If the r e c r e a t i o n a l use of the sandy area adjacent to mean
high tide has been ancient, reasonable, without i n t e r r u p t i o n
and free from dispute, such use, as a matter of custom, should
not be i n t e r f e r e d with by the owner.
[/SIZE]
However, the owner may
make any use of his property which is c o n s i s t e n t with such public
use and not calculated to i n t e r f e r e with the exercise of
the r i g h t of the public to enjoy the dry sand area as a recrea
t i o n a l adjunct of the w e t sand or foreshore area.
This r i g h t of customary use of the dry sand area of the
beaches by the public does not create any i n t e r e s t in the land
itself. Although t h i s r i g h t of use cannot be revoked by the
land owner, it is subject to appropriate governmental regulation
and may be abandoned by the public.
The r i g h t s of the owner of
the dry sand area may be compared to r i g h t s of a part-owner of
a land-locked nannavigable lake, as described i n Duval v, Thomas,
114 So.2d 791 (Fla. 1959).
Testimony was presented t h a t the p u b l i c ' s presence on
the land and its use of the land was not adverse to the i n t e r -
est of defendant, but r a t h e r t h a t the defendant's Main S t r e e t
p i e r relied on the presence of such seekers of the sea for its
business. Thus, the issue of adversity was c l e a r l y raised and
the evidence f a i l e d to show any adverse use by the public. In
fact, the construction of the sea t o w e r was c o n s i s t e n t with the
general recreational use by the public.
may continue t o use the dry sand area for t h e i r usual recre-
The general public
a t i o n a l a c t i v i t i e s , not because the public has any i n t e r e s t
i n the land i t s e l f , but because of a r i g h t gained through
custom to use t h i s p a r t i c u l a r area of the beach as they have
without dispute and without interruption for many years.
The decision of the D i s t r i c t Court of Appeal is quashed
and t h i s cause is remanded to the D i s t r i c t Court with instructions
to f u r t h e r remand the same to the t r i a l court for the
purpose of entering f i n a l judgment for defendant.
It is so ordered.
 
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kittyness

Beach Comber
May 10, 2007
27
1
Cypress, TX
Well put, gull! :bow: :clap: Lovely 'tar too. Did I ever say :welcome: kittyness. Well it's never 2 late 2 say :wave: , now is it?

Thanks. I try and keep my trap shut since I'm just a visitor and not a resident. However, stupidity just gets me going, regardless of my place of residence.


....and the moral of this thread? If you can't rent gulf front property for your vacation, then don't plan on spending time on the beach.

Precisely. You know the old saying about one rotten apple...
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,306
387
.....BMBV I don't know how deep your pockets are but it is cheaper to buy beachfront than to nourish it! And you could not afford to do it alone! The beach needs nourishment because it is starved for sand. It is starved for sand because people put houses and condos on the sand source!
How did you come to this conclusion?
 

surfdog

Beach Comber
Sep 12, 2006
33
5
i was hoping for another season without a storm,......begining to think maybe we deserve one......sorry this just makes me ill. seems like yesterday i was pulling my lil boy in his wagon thru the woods and down that hill ,watchin for snakes or a possible gator were the lil trail got low. to look at the signs from the retreat, the inn at b.m. and white cliffs now, i can at least cherish the memories of the hot dogs we grilled while hoping for a pompano dinner while playing with what ever the beach or surf had to offer that day. that was then and this is now.........oh, but look how much my house is worth now!,......lucky us
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,306
387
SJ, You have, without a doubt, made your point that the judicial system of the great state of Florida believes that there exists some inherent right of the public to use the beach. Just a favor, enough with all the legal quotes. Noone is debating that aspect.

But you have not addressed the requirement on a case by case basis of the public's burden of proof that the public is entitled to this use.

Please, take another look at [ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=262481&postcount=122"]post #122 [/ame]and try to address it. I think this is the core issue at this point, not the Tona-Rama stuff.

Pgurney at least answered that erecting a fence is a method for interrupting access. However, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Florida DEP will allow a gulf front owner to erect a fence on the beach, even if it is privately owned. The turtle people would be up in arms. Then if you put up a no-trespassing sign but it's ignored, is that considered interrupted? I don't think so from what I've read.

Then the only real way to defend private property rights on the beach would be to hire live people to chase away trespassers. Is that a fair requirement for ANY private property owner to defend their property?

Here we are today.
 
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