Led away in Handcuffs

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

SJ, I had underlined a comment I made above:

"Then the only real way to defend private property rights on the beach would be to hire live people to chase away trespassers. Is that a fair requirement for ANY private property owner to defend their property?"

Do you or any others out there have any opinions on this?

 

[Smiling JOe]

You still have not addressed the first word in your bolded sentence...
IF. Yes a BIG "IF", which does tie in to my post #122.

Where's Bill Clinton when you need him? (or was it the meaning of the word "IS"?)

BTW, I NEVER said or implied that the courts would not consider Tona-Rama. I have read enough of the court cases to know that I'm glad I'm not a lawyer.

I think I commented on that prior to your post #122, perhaps in the other thread regarding beach ownership. I stated that the public has been using the beach in Walton County without objection by property owners up until this year in most cases. This is the first year when The Retreat and Inn at Blue Mtn have posted signs and objected to the public's use of the beach. According to the FL Supreme Court, I think that is considered ancient and reasonable use without interruption. I will note that I am not a lawyer, and that the FL Supreme Court notes that they will take each case individually.

 

[Smiling JOe]

SJ, I had underlined a comment I made above:

"Then the only real way to defend private property rights on the beach would be to hire live people to chase away trespassers. Is that a fair requirement for ANY private property owner to defend their property?"

Do you or any others out there have any opinions on this?

Your question is very reasonable and sounds like a conundrum to me. Short of receiving a permit to build a fence, and posting signs, hiring a security guard sounds like the only way to defend it, but according to the Court, in another post which I quoted, the property owner should not interfear with the public's use. Therefore, I don't think they are in a situation where they "can" defend "their" property.

I'm glad that I'm not a lawyer also. I think points can be argued for both sides, but after reading a few cases of the FL Supreme Court regarding the dry beach ownership, as well as knowing that these properties have not been defended until now, I could venture a wild guess as to how the FL Courts would rule, if the public brings the right evidence to court with them, along with a great lawyer (oxymoron, unless the lawyer is on the winning team;-)).

 

[rocket136]

Back to the Inn at Blue Mountain Redfish Circle and the Retreat.....

Before I left I spoke with he 3-till-11 guy at the inn about the arrest on the 4th.
Now, knowing that he's just the watchman/maintenance/afternoon guy and may not be a credible source, he mentioned that there were some encroachment issues about the "private" walkover between the retreat and the inn. He had heard that the walkover was built on the Retreat's property. Can anyone confirm this?

Look for another fight, Maybe the Retreat owners are circling the wagons

Couple of thoughts:
- Does the Army Corps of Engineers have any say about beachfront access, maintenance, ownership etc?

- Does ownership of a beachfront consist of that lot owners rights to the beach or the subdivision to which the lot belongs? I wonder if the people at the back of the Retreat have similar rights to the beach as the beachfront lot owners. And if they do, do they not consist of the public?

 

[Smiling JOe]

- Does ownership of a beachfront consist of that lot owners rights to the beach or the subdivision to which the lot belongs? I wonder if the people at the back of the Retreat have similar rights to the beach as the beachfront lot owners. And if they do, do they not consist of the public?

I haven't looked up the ownership of The Retreat beaches, but will note that the ownership by Gulf front owners vs the sub-division varies depending on the subdivision.

 

[BeachSiO2]

I think I commented on that prior to your post #122, perhaps in the other thread regarding beach ownership. I stated that the public has been using the beach in Walton County without objection by property owners up until this year in most cases. This is the first year when The Retreat and Inn at Blue Mtn have posted signs and objected to the public's use of the beach. According to the FL Supreme Court, I think that is considered ancient and reasonable use without interruption. I will note that I am not a lawyer, and that the FL Supreme Court notes that they will take each case individually.

Actually, it is not. Unfortunately this happened a few times last year also.

 

[yippie]

Couple of thoughts:
- Does the Army Corps of Engineers have any say about beachfront access, maintenance, ownership etc?

No, I don't believe the Corps has anything to do with it. However, the DEP does. You have to have everything approved by the DEP and that is not an easy process.

 

[BeachSiO2]

Back to the Inn at Blue Mountain Redfish Circle and the Retreat.....

Before I left I spoke with he 3-till-11 guy at the inn about the arrest on the 4th.
Now, knowing that he's just the watchman/maintenance/afternoon guy and may not be a credible source, he mentioned that there were some encroachment issues about the "private" walkover between the retreat and the inn. He had heard that the walkover was built on the Retreat's property. Can anyone confirm this?

Look for another fight, Maybe the Retreat owners are circling the wagons

Couple of thoughts:
- Does the Army Corps of Engineers have any say about beachfront access, maintenance, ownership etc?

- Does ownership of a beachfront consist of that lot owners rights to the beach or the subdivision to which the lot belongs? I wonder if the people at the back of the Retreat have similar rights to the beach as the beachfront lot owners. And if they do, do they not consist of the public?[/quote]

No they only have regulatory authority below Mean High Water.

Not at the Retreat. The beach is reserved for the use of the subdivision, not public.

 

[GoodWitch58]

actually, it happened before last year. There was an article in the DFS newspaper about it not sure which year, but it was the year that the sign was first put by The Retreat people.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

- Does ownership of a beachfront consist of that lot owners rights to the beach or the subdivision to which the lot belongs? I wonder if the people at the back of the Retreat have similar rights to the beach as the beachfront lot owners. And if they do, do they not consist of the public?

I too was a little curious how the Retreat was set up. The answer is the gulf front property owners own to the water line. However there exists a "common recreational use easement" more or less on the sandy part of the beach for the rest of the Retreat.