Neighborhood Electric Vehicles

[kitlit]

It's a very dismissive tone you take regarding the expansion of LSV usage. Obviously you've made your mind up [understatement], as you state you won't listen to the conclusions from the Sierra Club on total environmental impact, or Insurance comapnies or authorities on safety records.

I may have missed where you posted this, but you keep referencing the Sierra Club and their opinions on LSVs. I checked out their website, Clean Car Campaign - Clean Energy Solutions - Sierra Club, and I couldn't find any mention of LSVs. I did find their list of personal solutions, in which they recommend things like taking public transportation, and IF you are in the market for a new vehicle, switching to a hybrid or more fuel efficient vehicle:

Personal Solutions

Sierra Club's clean car campaign also promotes actions everyone can take to reduce their carbon footprint. Transportation accounts for a high percentage of most Americans' individual carbon emissions. The good news is that you can take many small steps on a daily basis to do your part in the fight against global warming:

Leave your car at home - take transit if you can. Taking transit will save oil and let you chat on the phone or text safely while you commute.

Bike to work or to the store.

If you're in the market for a new car, buy a hybrid or the most fuel efficient vehicle that meets your needs. Considering each gallon of gas we burn releases 28 pounds of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, better fuel economy = a better environment

Check your tire pressure frequently and keep your tires fully inflated. Full tires can improve your fuel economy up to 10%.

Use a GPS - studies show that using a navigational device can reduce miles traveled up to 16%.

If you own a car but do not require it for your daily commute, sell the car and join a car sharing company instead. This cuts down on your insurance, gas, and car payment bills, and significantly cuts down on casual, unnecessary driving.

Find out your car's optimal speed for fuel economy and set your cruise control.

Choose an efficient route for your errand-running so as to avoid multiple trips or excessive miles. If you visit a shopping center and plan to make multiple stops, park your car in the center of the parking lot and walk to your individual destinations.

Roughly 44% of car trips taken are less than 2 miles - burn calories instead of gasoline by taking a walk or riding a bike.

Ask your boss if you can telecommute one or two days per week.

Carpool with co-workers. This can be fun and a great way to wake you up in the morning! If a daily carpool won't work, try one or two days per week.

If you have two cars and are taking a trip, choose the more fuel efficient car.

Shop online instead of making the trip!

Keep your car tuned up.

Again, you may have posted this previously, I simply could not find it... I would be interested to see any official statements released by the Sierra Club regarding LSVs and their usage...

All of the above suggestions jibe with what those of us who are against LSVs have already proposed...

 

[LuciferSam]

driving while impaired is dangerous and illegal. driving while slightly intoxicated with a huge SUV is not. that's my point. Maybe I should have said 2 martinis, or over the course of 2 hours.

sure, I don't support driving drunk, nor can I support the beating of women, or texting while driving for that matter.

I was asking a question, which you chose not to answer. That's ok, perhaps you think the large SUV is safer, with a slightly distracted driver. (**** happens yes) I say, consult the NHTSA statistics. If you don't trust the government statistics, fine then. Go to for profit sources - ask an insurance company what liability coverage costs for an SUV, vs. a licensed golf cart / LSV, I'm pretty sure they've consulted the statistics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have news for you. Anybody who would shell out money for a LSV is distracted.

 

[Geo]

It's a very dismissive tone you take regarding the expansion of LSV usage. Obviously you've made your mind up [understatement], as you state you won't listen to the conclusions from the Sierra Club on total environmental impact, or Insurance comapnies or authorities on safety records. To you, it's about stopping folks from having 'fun'.

that's a shame, b/c making one little change at Deer Lake state park, would connect SO MANY of the mini-communities of 30A for the purposes of LSVs... that's the only 1.5 Mile piece of road, that needs one slight change to accommodate this. I want to see it, because I want to see more LSV's to the extent people won't walk or bike. All I see are huge SUV's, and your stance, helps perpetuate that "picture" of South Walton, as a resort area, filled with Suburbans with a big dusty W sticker on the back still, rather than what it could be.

LSV's are Safer - to me, that's not an insignificant factor in lowering the speed limit on a less than 2 mile stretch.
LSV's are Greener - ok, let's toss that out as irrelevant (not sure why though)
LSV's are FUNN - ok, so that's the sticking point??? I just don't get it.

How fast do people really have to drive through Deer Lake, with families and kids on a bicycle path not eve 2 feet from the roadway in some of that stretch ?

30A is unique, if you need to drive 70MPH, use US Hwy 98 is my suggestion. Barring that, leave 8 seconds earlier, to account for tiny stretch of pavement, where you'll now drive 10 MPH slower.

Let me let you in on a little secret. I don't care. Seriously. If the speed limit is 35 where it is currently 45 it won't bother me. If you get to drive your golf cart from Gulf Trace to get groceries I have no issue with it.

Why then (you ask)- would I continue to discuss/debate strongly taking a side? Simple- because I like to argue. And when I see weak arguments I cannot resist pointing it out.

Please-
Will one of you just be real here and take the approach that we live in a really unique area and that it would be enjoyable for residents and visitors alike if we could cart around on smaller street legal recreational vehicles when we're on 30A rather than the big SUV's we use to get our people and our stuff here from Atlanta or over to Destin.

Please-
Would one of you who stand to gain financially from the lowering of the speed limit step up and say that you own or plan on owning an LSV rental company and that it is a joy to motor from town to town along 30A. Invite locals to stop in for a free trial rental.

Please-
Would all of you stop trying to convince us that by lowering the speed limit anyone here will be safer, that we will be better stewards of the planet, that we will be better members of the Sierra Club or that we will reduce our dependence on oil. No one is buying it and no one believes the speed limit should be changed under the guise of these talking points. I bolded the one sentence in your last post that resonates.



EDIT:

BTW- You forgot about the 45MPH stretch of 30A on the far west end. People staying at Topsail are currently unable to go to legally go to Tom Thumb in an LSV.

 

[nr light]

....What are we discussing here again?

I can't possibly address all the examples and What If situations given in this forum on what would happen if....and what if the people driving drunk...bla bla bla But I would hope that wouldn't be the case in a LSV or standard car or truck...

What I can provide is some more research that will hopefully put some of your fears at ease. One person was concerned that LSV's do not have the "go power" to pull off at a moment's notice or speed up out of the way...
I found that most cars/trucks are capable of getting from 0 to 25 in 6 seconds (average btw large trucks and compact cars)
LSV's (again, average) are capable of going 0 to 25 in 3.1 seconds.
So, at a stop sign, that little LSV has some good "go juice" to move when it is his/her time or to quickly pull out of the way for emergency vehicles.

I also want to address your comment, Scooterbug,
"15-20 mph is the realistic maximum speed for most LSVs. " This is not true, unless their batteries are shot. Legally, these vehicles must achieve a minimum speed of 20 mph on public roads, but cannot exceed 25 mph. Anything lower than 20mph would not classify them as a LSV.

One more thing,
Would any of you be interested in driving one of these vehicles? I've been in talks with Ecco Motors, a local company that sells and rents Tomberlin LSV's to a lot of the communities off of 30a. They said they would allow me to bring a cart out to Seaside for a day. I figure I can share the fun with some of ya'll or at least give you some exposure to these vehicles directly. Would you be interested? I checked out their blog: www.golfcartpro.com to get some of the information I've been posing.

Additional information I have found includes:
Effects Of Raising And Lowering Speed limits
(A study on the effects of raising and lowering speed limits)

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/lsvtechreport.pdf
(A study of integration of LSVs in mixed traffic)

Fun reads if you have a couple hours...

 

[30A Skunkape]

It's a very dismissive tone you take regarding the expansion of LSV usage. Obviously you've made your mind up [understatement], as you state you won't listen to the conclusions from the Sierra Club on total environmental impact, or Insurance comapnies or authorities on safety records. To you, it's about stopping folks from having 'fun'.

that's a shame, b/c making one little change at Deer Lake state park, would connect SO MANY of the mini-communities of 30A for the purposes of LSVs... that's the only 1.5 Mile piece of road, that needs one slight change to accommodate this. I want to see it, because I want to see more LSV's to the extent people won't walk or bike. All I see are huge SUV's, and your stance, helps perpetuate that "picture" of South Walton, as a resort area, filled with Suburbans with a big dusty W sticker on the back still, rather than what it could be.

LSV's are Safer - to me, that's not an insignificant factor in lowering the speed limit on a less than 2 mile stretch.
LSV's are Greener - ok, let's toss that out as irrelevant (not sure why though)
LSV's are FUNN - ok, so that's the sticking point??? I just don't get it.

How fast do people really have to drive through Deer Lake, with families and kids on a bicycle path not eve 2 feet from the roadway in some of that stretch ?

30A is unique, if you need to drive 70MPH, use US Hwy 98 is my suggestion. Barring that, leave 8 seconds earlier, to account for tiny stretch of pavement, where you'll now drive 10 MPH slower.

30-A is a highway for cars, NOT the 19th hole for tourists and the local nouveau riche! Accept it!

 

[nr light]

haha, Geo
I guess I didn't update my window in time to see you last comment before I posted. I dont own a rental company but Good Idea in bringing a cart out there I guess?

 

[30ashopper]

Let me let you in on a little secret. I don't care. Seriously. If the speed limit is 35 where it is currently 45 it won't bother me. If you get to drive your golf cart from Gulf Trace to get groceries I have no issue with it.

Why then (you ask)- would I continue to discuss/debate strongly taking a side? Simple- because I like to argue. And when I see weak arguments I cannot resist pointing it out.

Please-
Will one of you just be real here and take the approach that we live in a really unique area and that it would be enjoyable for residents and visitors alike if we could cart around on smaller street legal recreational vehicles when we're on 30A rather than the big SUV's we use to get our people and our stuff here from Atlanta or over to Destin.

Please-
Would one of you who stand to gain financially from the lowering of the speed limit step up and say that you own or plan on owning an LSV rental company and that it is a joy to motor from town to town along 30A. Invite locals to stop in for a free trial rental.

Please-
Would all of you stop trying to convince us that by lowering the speed limit anyone here will be safer, that we will be better stewards of the planet, that we will be better members of the Sierra Club or that we will reduce our dependence on oil. No one is buying it and no one believes the speed limit should be changed under the guise of these talking points. I bolded the one sentence in your last post that resonates.



EDIT:

BTW- You forgot about the 45MPH stretch of 30A on the far west end. People staying at Topsail are currently unable to go to legally go to Tom Thumb in an LSV.

Geo, you seem to come at this from the strangest of angles.

Yes, I think it would be great if people could get around 30A in small, compact, noiseless, electric vehicles. I'd prefer that to all the SUVs and cars cruising around faster than a speeding bullet. I think areas like Seaside (which is always a mess of traffic in the summer time) would benefit numerous ways from changes to the laws / roads / speed limits / paths.

No, I don't stand to profit at all, I'm thinking of things like easy or use and access, oil dependency, and aesthetics along 30A.

No, I'm not suggesting we lower the speed limit all along 30A. (Although I think it will happen in time.) There are other solutions that don't involve 30A proper. I've posted that repeatedly here as well.

Anyway, You and scooter obviously have picked your position in this and aren't interesting in acknowledging the problems 30A has with access and traffic. Enough said, I'm bowing out of this as it's not something I'm invested in currently.

 

[scooterbug44]

It's not the actual LSVs I object to, it's their use on 30-A. Better, greener, and safer options exist.

You must admit that the level of bad driving around here is astounding - people cannot figure out how to drive cars, use the bike path, cross the street, or obey basic signs.

The wenches decreed that I have to wear a helmet to ride on the bike path because they are worried I'll get run over.

And you want to add small, slow moving vehicles that don't meet crash test standards to that mix?

A LSV will not protect its occupants in an accident - even in a crash at low speeds with a tiny vehicle like a 2 seat Smart car.

A Smart car hitting a LSV at 30 mph will kill or severely injure the occupants (even if they have their seatbelts on). The Smart car driver will be physically unscathed.

Now imagine what happens when a LSV gets in an accident with a SUV, semi, or delivery truck - all daily users of 30-A.

It's not about the speed limit or keeping people from having fun, it's about safety.

Low Speed Vehicles do poorly in crash tests - May. 20, 2010

 

[Kurt]

30A is unique, if you need to drive 70MPH, use US Hwy 98 is my suggestion. Barring that, leave 8 seconds earlier, to account for tiny stretch of pavement, where you'll now drive 10 MPH slower.

How'd we get to 70? Illegal on 98 also.

 

[Jdarg]

Geo, you seem to come at this from the strangest of angles.

Yes, I think it would be great if people could get around 30A in small, compact, noiseless, electric vehicles. I'd prefer that to all the SUVs and cars cruising around faster than a speeding bullet. I think areas like Seaside (which is always a mess of traffic in the summer time) would benefit numerous ways from changes to the laws / roads / speed limits / paths.

No, I don't stand to profit at all, I'm thinking of things like easy or use and access, oil dependency, and aesthetics along 30A.

No, I'm not suggesting we lower the speed limit all along 30A. (Although I think it will happen in time.) There are other solutions that don't involve 30A proper. I've posted that repeatedly here as well.

Anyway, You and scooter obviously have picked your position in this and aren't interesting in acknowledging the problems 30A has with access and traffic. Enough said, I'm bowing out of this as it's not something I'm invested in currently.

There are seasonal, brief difficulties, but nothing I would consider huge. It is funny when traffic backs up at the 3 way stop in Seagrove- everyone notices because it is not a daily event.