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Travel2Much

Beach Lover
Jun 13, 2005
159
0
Smiling JOe said:
I don't live below sea level, nor in a glass house. Sure the levees broke and that caused homes built below sea level to flood with toxic waste. The fact is, New Orleans was built below sea level. Any 2nd grade student can tell you the potential hazards of building along the sea at an elevation lower than the sea. It ain't rocket science.;-)

By the way, I have never purchased a Gulf-front home, nor will you see me selling products in which I do not believe without throwing extreme caution to the buyer. Some buyers don't want to hear what I say, but I say it just the same.

I lied. Ain't going quite yet.

Houses did not flood with "toxic waste". I have been in several flooded houses and it is not "toxic waste". Unpleasant, yes. Unhealthy, certainly. Moldy, absolutely. For the most part that is a problem Bush-loving, Limbaugh-fawning, FoxNews-watching Florida crackers like to throw around.

It is not acceptable to call the good people of New Orleans "Idiots" over and over again. Spend a few afternoons helping them out THERE (and I don't mean donating them clothes here), as I have done day after day after day, and maybe you would see what I mean. Maybe you might develop a sense of the overwhelming tragedy that has occurred and the extent of the human suffering there. Maybe you would get a sense of the vastness of the losses. Maybe not, tho.

And, I say that as someone who loathes and has always loathed the city and intends to move in August.

Now I am going.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
Travel2Much said:
I lied. Ain't going quite yet.

Houses did not flood with "toxic waste". I have been in several flooded houses and it is not "toxic waste". Unpleasant, yes. Unhealthy, certainly. Moldy, absolutely. For the most part that is a problem Bush-loving, Limbaugh-fawning, FoxNews-watching Florida crackers like to throw around.

It is not acceptable to call the good people of New Orleans "Idiots" over and over again. Spend a few afternoons helping them out THERE (and I don't mean donating them clothes here), as I have done day after day after day, and maybe you would see what I mean. Maybe you might develop a sense of the overwhelming tragedy that has occurred and the extent of the human suffering there. Maybe you would get a sense of the vastness of the losses. Maybe not, tho.

And, I say that as someone who loathes and has always loathed the city and intends to move in August.

Now I am going.

I feel a cat fight coming on, and I am not a cat.

The adjectives, "moldy" and "unhealthy," do fall into the category of toxic.
tox?ic ([font=verdana,sans-serif] P [/font]) Pronunciation Key (t
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adj.

  1. Of, relating to, or caused by a toxin or other poison: a toxic condition; toxic hepatitis.
  2. Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous: food preservatives that are toxic in concentrated amounts; a dump for toxic industrial wastes.
My words were,
" I thought the damage to NOLA was directly caused by some idiot deciding to build a city along the coast on ground lower than Sea level."

In that sentence, I don't see any mention of refering to today's New Orleans residents as idiots as you state, unless you are the one who decided to build the city back in the 1700's.


Edit: for those of you wanting to move back to NOLA or rebuild it, I simply think of you as risk takers, no different from people wanting to rebuild their Gulf-front homes. If you feel froggish, jump. Now go rebuild your city.
 
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rapunzel

Beach Fanatic
Nov 30, 2005
2,514
980
Point Washington
Thank you, Travel2much, for pointing out something that was really blowing my mind...it could very well have happened to anyone on this board. If you've ever said to yourself, what is the chance of a category 4 storm taking a direct hit on Destin? Something like that only happens once every hundred years and isn't likely to happen in my lifetime...well, you sound a lot like I did a year ago. Luckily, the damage in this area would be pretty contained, since the population density is relatively low (Of course, I hope you guys are keeping a watch on the Walton County Commissioners, because the property rights people and developers seem to be ready to sacrifice your wetlands and natural protection, too). It probably wouldn't threaten the national economy for insurance companies to take their investments out of the market and actually pay all their claims. Maybe you still have enough faith in the government to think FEMA, the insurance commissioner in Florida, someone would step forward and save you from losing everything because you paid your taxes and insured your investments.

I was in New Orleans last week. It looks like Lebanon in the 1980's. I had been upset over the fact that I had not heard from FEMA, but since I had (a rather beautiful SoWal) roof over my head, I figured the decent thing was to wait my turn while really desperate people were helped. Unfortunately, some FEMA employee keyed in my mailing address as the collapsed home I was unable to live in (and therefore requesting help from FEMA) rather than the mailing address I had put on the application. So, as I looked at the pile of rubble in my neighbor's yard, I noticed some paper sticking out of the mailbox. What do you know -- my FEMA applications that required response by OCTOBER 28th!! Mail wasn't even running in the city then...a fact even Netflix was aware of! The final mailing indicated I had voluntarily withdrawn my application. So, three months into this, I have to start all over. And I only have the beautiful roof for 38 more days. I am not alone...everyone has a story like this. Insurance companies aren't paying claims. FEMA is a joke. Mortgage companies are foreclosing. Property taxes are due in less than a month and if they aren't paid the city has the right to seize property, yet people can't live there and need what little money they may have left to live in exile.

As for jobs, well...you are set if you want to do construction for $8.25 an hour. Or if you want to work as a housekeeper in a hotel or wait tables. And if you can find housing that you can afford on such wages, my hat is off to you. If you were a professional, well you are out of luck. I worked in the infamous euthanasia hospital, and I know of two doctors who have committed suicide because of their financial ruin and not being able to cope with the human misery.

As for those who want to blame our state and local governments, I'll agree there were some rather glaring lapses in leadership. Guess what? New Orleans and Louisiana have some of the most entrenched political corruption in the country. I wasn't on the take. No one I knew was (well, I did know some guys who bought a senator to help their business, but that was a heartbreaking experience for me and I vowed not to vote for that guy again). Isn't the whole point of the federal government to protect the citizens of New Orleans from that kind of corruption? Do they really just get a 'get out of jail free' card by blaming the corruption of Louisiana's political machine without doing anything to break that machine and help all the people in New Orleans? I ask this because, although I have no paperwork to prove it, I believe I remember paying taxes to the federal government. I think that's where most of my tax dollars went, actually. And I believe I did that based on some vague promise of a social contract government that served to protect life, liberty, and property. I, as well as every other citizen of New Orleans, bought into this promise. If it was all our fault for living below sea level on the coast, perhaps the government should have told us not to worry about those taxes because they weren't going to be around to help us if we ever needed them. It seems rather unfair to wait until after the storm hit, after they dredged a channel called MRGO to insure easy access to oil and gas from the gulf (it was up this channel the 15 foot storm surge travelled and topped the levees in the 9th ward and started the chain reaction of destruction), after they took the oil and gas revenues and gave more of the proceeds to New Mexico than Louisiana, to tell us all this.

When Bienville settled New Orleans, it wasn't below sea level. It fell below sea level after people were already there. People up and down the Mississippi River built levees to protect the nation's farmland from annual flooding. The country had to be fed, so despite the increased risk this caused New Orleans and gulf parishes, levees were allowed to go up from Minnesota to Mississippi. In 1927, a flood occured that was so devasting it's aftermath gave us the populist, corrupt state government that still paralyzes the city today. The first real levee system was built to prevent another such disaster. What people didn't realize at the time was that the annual gentle flooding of the Mississippi had produced the natural levees that created New Orleans and the wetlands in the first place. By preventing this natural flooding, the levees kept the river from replenishing the land, and the silty soil was compacting and eroding. Slowly, New Orleans ended up below sea level...the wetlands that kept New Orleans from being a coastal city were being washed away. The sediment that the Mississippi was dumping into the gulf had to be dredged away from the mouth of the river to allow 30% of the nations shipping and its oil and gas to come in and fuel the national economy. A wide mouth with many channels cost too much, so they just dredged two...and one of those just happened to funnel Katrina's storm surge right into the industrial canal and knocked out the levees that ring the city.

If people outside New Orleans don't hold the government accountable for what happens to us, if we are allowed to just rot on the vine, to lose everything we've spent our lives building without so much as an apology and a willingness to accept the responsibility for that decision, why will they do any more for SoWal? I mean, these are just the second homes of the rich...why should some working class guy in Wyoming pay taxes to underwrite loans to rebuild those? Because you are Americans, you've paid taxes and earned your wealth and your property and the government's resposibility is to protect that life, liberty, and property. According to thomas Jefferson that is the only reason for government to exist, and the Declaration of Independence asserts our rights to abolish any government that fails to protect those three fundamental rights of man.

On that note...from the Times-Picayune letters to the editor:

Dear France,

Greetings from Louisiana! We are shopping for new owners, and we immediately thought of you! Our present rulers haven't been taking very good care of us and we are looking for a better deal. They are spending all our money in a place called Iraq (somewhere in the Middle East). We thought that perhaps you might want to revisit an old land deal you made long ago.
If you've been reading the papers lately, you may have noticed that we have had a few problems with "water". No, we're not offering you a deal on a damaged water park. (Althouugh that's what it looks like from the air) Seriously, we need help, and fast.

Some things you might like here:

1. We named the state after your King Louis
2. We named the city after your city, Orleans
3. We have lots of French names on the streets
4. We still have Napoleonic law (maybe you can explain it to us!)
5. A lot of our citizens speak French (the accent will grow on you)
6. We like French food and wine

What we can offer you:
1. a toehold (rather wet!) on the continent
2. an incredible port
3. Lots of oil and gas
4. Lots of restaurants
5. Jazz
6. Mardi Gras (you won't believe what we do with this!)
7. Some of the most beautifu houses in the world (very, very wet)

What we need from you is simple:

1. Wetland redevelopment
2. New levees
3. Lots of new houses (but we want them to look old like the ones we lost)
4. We need schools and hospitals rebuilt
5. If you insist, we wouldn't mind some more outdoor cafes like you folks are famous for.

Please think this over carefully. Our current owners are so busy in other countries, they might not even notice if you come down here and take a look around. We'll put you up in grand style in a place we call "The French Quarter" (yeah, really!) and you can have lunch at a place we built for your very own Napoleon, which we call (you guessed it!)Napoleons". You'll be right at home.
Oh, just remember, we would like the levees and the wetlands taken care of ASAP, sometime just after lunch if not sooner.

Yours sincerely,
A homeowner in New Olreans
Joan Fox
 
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aquaticbiology

fishlips
May 30, 2005
799
0
redneck heaven
Travel2Much said:
I lied. Ain't going quite yet.

Houses did not flood with "toxic waste". I have been in several flooded houses and it is not "toxic waste". Unpleasant, yes. Unhealthy, certainly. Moldy, absolutely. For the most part that is a problem Bush-loving, Limbaugh-fawning, FoxNews-watching Florida crackers like to throw around.

It is not acceptable to call the good people of New Orleans "Idiots" over and over again. Spend a few afternoons helping them out THERE (and I don't mean donating them clothes here), as I have done day after day after day, and maybe you would see what I mean. Maybe you might develop a sense of the overwhelming tragedy that has occurred and the extent of the human suffering there. Maybe you would get a sense of the vastness of the losses. Maybe not, tho.

And, I say that as someone who loathes and has always loathed the city and intends to move in August.

Now I am going.


Bush-loving, Limbaugh-fawning, FoxNews-watching Florida crackers :rotfl:

can't stand *any* of the three!

somebody besides me needs a cookie (my new natural meds-works just as well with no dastardly side effects!)

consider the "pull-together" factor of moving the entire city above the lake - plus it gets rid of the substandard housing as a side effect
 

Travel2Much

Beach Lover
Jun 13, 2005
159
0
aquaticbiology said:
Bush-loving, Limbaugh-fawning, FoxNews-watching Florida crackers :rotfl:

can't stand *any* of the three!

somebody besides me needs a cookie (my new natural meds-works just as well with no dastardly side effects!)

consider the "pull-together" factor of moving the entire city above the lake - plus it gets rid of the substandard housing as a side effect

You obviously do now know enough about either the city or its situation post-Katrina to participate meaningfully in any real discussion about it. So, I won't waste my time.

Rapunzel, sorry to hear about things. The NOLA medical community has been so ravaged. Are you going to go back? (P.S.--If any one of the number of things that have happened to New Orleanians all over from all walks of life over the last months happened to any of these folk, they'd be writhing. But, none of it most likely it would happen to them. Not with ole Jeb as guvn'r).
 

aquaticbiology

fishlips
May 30, 2005
799
0
redneck heaven
>3. Lots of new houses (but we want them to look old like the ones we lost)
>4. We need schools and hospitals rebuilt

"for pete's sake, build above the lake" - there are already many established new businessess starting there who are now safe - the 'new bourbon street' area is looking more promising every day - and the decor is superb old quarter - it is a fresh new start (with an old design) instead of wringing out old plaster

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/18/60minutes/main1056304.shtml
 
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Travel2Much

Beach Lover
Jun 13, 2005
159
0
aquaticbiology said:
>3. Lots of new houses (but we want them to look old like the ones we lost)
>4. We need schools and hospitals rebuilt

"for pete's sake, build above the lake" - there are already many established new businessess starting there who are now safe - the 'new bourbon street' area is looking more promising every day - and the decor is superb old quarter - it is a fresh new start (with an old design) instead of wringing out old plaster

Quite easy to say if you are not being foreclosed upon or evicted, liable for the deficiency, have lost your life savings and are living out in your car. (And, those are the lucky ones).

Maybe you should go dissect a fish or take a water sample or whatever it is you do and are presumably competent at. Like I said, from what you say you appear to have no clue about what is going on in New Orleans.

Also like I said, perhaps the Army Corps of Engineers could build levees that meet accepted engineering standards, like they were required to do according to the legislation that authorized the levees in the first place that induced much of the building you are deriding.

I will happily chortle the next time Walton County gets whacked. See ya then.
 

Mermaid

picky
Aug 11, 2005
7,871
335
Travel2Much said:
I will happily chortle the next time Walton County gets whacked. See ya then.


You surely do not mean that. New Orleans is hurting, true, but Walton County is in no way responsible, and contrary to popular saying, Misery Does NOT Love Company. :sosad:
 

pgurney

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2005
586
66
ATL & Seacrest
I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles Travel2Much and rapunzel. Having no similar experience I can't imagine what you folks are going through. I hope things turn around for you guys real soon.
 

Travel2Much

Beach Lover
Jun 13, 2005
159
0
Mermaid said:
You surely do not mean that. New Orleans is hurting, true, but Walton County is in no way responsible, and contrary to popular saying, Misery Does NOT Love Company. :sosad:

I actually sort of do. I think the NYT's editorial is dead-on right that America is responsible in ways for what has happened and will happen, and needs to deal with it responsibly. I know from personal experience that it is not being dealt with responsibly by the federal government (or the state or local, but that is not the issue here). Far too often there is a tenor of "that's their (new orleans') problem and fault". So, turn about would be fair play in a grotesque application of the golden rule.

When the Panhandle has been hit, New Orleaneans have never "tsk, tsk'ed" those who live here (including myself). I am shocked by how much there is going the other way from people on this Board. No one has ever suggested that Pensacola, Tampa, or Miami be abandoned, but oh the choruses regarding New Orleans.
 
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