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Jenksy

Beach Fanatic
Oct 25, 2012
833
634
Mputnal,
Just so you know, not everybody disagrees with you.
And the thing that bothers me the most about this entire thread is where those who fly the Confederate battle flag on their pickup truck are labeled as undesirables on a thread that is supposed to be about eliminating racism and discrimination...

It's OK to discriminate against racism, ignorance, violence, crime, prejudice, and all like it.

It's really simple. The flag has become a symbol of supremacy and racism by a large portion of the world population. To continue to fly it now means you are making a statement about that, like it or not that's the way it is.
 

Danny Glidewell

Beach Fanatic
Mar 26, 2008
725
914
Glendale
It's OK to discriminate against racism, ignorance, violence, crime, prejudice, and all like it.

It's really simple. The flag has become a symbol of supremacy and racism by a large portion of the world population. To continue to fly it now means you are making a statement about that, like it or not that's the way it is.


Just because you say it is so does not make it so. Unless you have been elected grand high poobah or something. And what happened to tolerance and acceptance of those who are different from you? Does this only apply when you are the one who needed to be tolerated and accepted?

Are you saying this is ok?

https://www.facebook.com/mediatakeout/videos/vb.731743396857610/1041120505919896/?type=2&theater
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,395
1,814
It's OK to discriminate against racism, ignorance, violence, crime, prejudice, and all like it.

It's really simple. The flag has become a symbol of supremacy and racism by a large portion of the world population. To continue to fly it now means you are making a statement about that, like it or not that's the way it is.
No, it is NEVER okay to discriminate against anyone unless you do not really believe that ALL People are created equal. I understand that it seems logical but because ALL humans have flaws and we all have biases. We are not all knowing creatures and it simply becomes a judgement of another human based only on selected facts. We ALL have have imperfect qualities and therefore to try and judge another person would open that very same person up to judge you. That is what leads to violence, crime, prejudice and racism. If you discriminate against another person for their education that would be even worse because now you are living in a reality of absolute inequality (the more educated the more unequal) and that would expose you to being called ignorant by someone with a greater education. It would be illogical to believe that you are closer to some absolute morality in justifying any sort of discrimination. That said, I do believe that we all suffer from this fantasy of justification for discrimination. The challenge is for us to be aware of these flaws in human behavior. Instead of going down this path of self importance (I believe that someone has correctly pointed this out to myself as well) it is better to choose the path of self awareness.
 

Jdarg

SoWal Expert
Feb 15, 2005
18,039
1,984
Thank you for a thoughtful letter, Reverend Erthein. From the Take Down the Confederate Flag in Walton County Facebook page.

A letter from the John B. Erthein, the pastor of Euchee Valley Presbyterian Church in DeFuniak Springs, the oldest Presbyterian church in Florida.
__________________________________________
I write in support of the request to remove the Confederate battle flag from its (inappropriate) place of honor on the grounds of the Walton County Courthouse. I join in this request for these reasons:
First, I am, quite simply, a resident of Walton County. I have lived here for 4 and 1/2 years. I have paid the sales taxes, voted in the elections, bought most of our life necessities here, and have been civically involved, formerly in the Kiwanis club, and currently in the Emerald Coast Ministerial Alliance. I am blessed to be the pastor of the oldest Presbyterian Church in Florida, Euchee Valley Presbyterian Church, whose cemetery contains those who gave their lives both for the Confederacy and the Union. Therefore, I have just as much of a right and a duty to express my views on the issues of this County as does someone who can trace his or her ancestry back to the 1820s. It may be noted that the very fast growth this county has enjoyed over the past couple of decades comes primarily from people who used to live outside of Walton County ... even, to the apparent dismay of some, from north of the Mason Dixon Line.
Well, we live here now, and our voices deserve to be heard as much as anyone's. And I say in all clarity: I do not want that flag flying on the grounds of MY Courthouse. I say that because the Courthouse belongs to me as much as it belongs to someone who has lived here his or her entire life, and can even trace generations of residency here. Second, I want to see that flag taken down from the courthouse grounds because I am a conservative Republican. Like many other conservative Republicans, such as Governor Nikki Haley of South Carolina; the son of Senator Strom Thurmond; Governor Robert Bentley of Alabama; former Florida Governor Jeb Bush; and our own State Senator, Don Gaetz, I stand against a symbol that contradicts everything that conservatism and Republicanism stand for. Conservatives do not support symbols of insurrection and rebellion against our home country. And Republicans have stood since Lincoln for the "Union, forever." In any case, this wave of conservative, Republican opposition to the placement of the Confederate battle flag will hopefully refute ignorant or mendacious claims that this is all just some liberal plot to undermine Walton County's conservative values. Nothing could be further from the truth!
Third, I oppose the Confederate battle flag flying at the Courthouse because I am an evangelical Christian. An increasing number of us oppose this flag, including Russell Moore, President of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Office of the Southern Baptist Convention, and a Mississippi native whose ancestors fought for the Confederacy. Rev. Moore has stated that the flag and the cross cannot co-exist, for one will put the other to flames. Rev. Franklin Graham, an outspoken conservative evangelical, and a North Carolina native, also advocates removing this flag from government property such as courthouses and state capitols. The President of one of the most conservative, fundamentalist universities in America, Bob Jones University in South Carolina, has called for this flag to be removed from places that imply government support for the flag. While conservative evangelicals have not always gotten Civil Rights "right" in the past, we are striving for racial reconciliation now, and that means listening to our brothers and sisters in the African American church.

This leads me to oppose this flag flying at the Courthouse because of a brother in Christ who is African-American, a great man of God who treated me and my children with great kindness and courtesy when I visited his church on one occasion. Later, he came and told several of us evangelical pastors of the pain that seeing that flag causes him as he walks to do business at his courthouse. Yes, it is HIS courthouse too. How DARE anyone in this County discount the pain he and other African-Americans feel? Are African Americans not equally County residents, are they not equally American citizens, and are they not equally made in the image of God?
The battle flag was raised on the Courthouse grounds in 1964, as it was in so many other parts of the South during the Civil Rights Era, as a symbol of defiance, a clenched fist against people who believed in equality between the races, many of whom were martyred for their beliefs. Do we keep this clenched fist in its place at the courthouse, which is supposed to dispense justice equally to all?

I do not presume to write on behalf of all of my brothers in the ministerial alliance; nor do I claim to speak for every member of my congregation. But this is a matter that has stirred my conscience. I pray you will remove the flag and not delay any longer. To delay (or worse, to vote to retain the flag) is to say that those residents who moved here from elsewhere don't matter; and it says to our African-American brothers and sisters (so many of whom are exemplary followers of Jesus Christ), that they don't matter. It would say that the only people who matter are those who cling to a symbol of division and of white racial supremacy. Not all of those people mean to support the flag for those reasons: but keeping that symbol of contempt flying at the courthouse will tragically signal to this state and this country that Walton County cannot let go of the uglier aspects of its past, and that the cares and concerns of so many of her people do not matter to those who lead this County.
I say boldly that I cannot believe my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ could support that. In His Name, I ask the Walton County Commission to do what is right before God and take down that flag.
Very respectfully,
Rev. John B. Erthein
Euchee Valley Presbyterian Church
DeFuniak Springs
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,893
9,500
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
Correction to poppy's post. This thread as evolved into a discussion about many things:

1. How to respect the African American race while preserving the Confederate Memorial and Flag in the wake of the South Carolina church shooting.
2. Should the Confederate Flag fly over this memorial and should public opinion have more power than local governments in the decision.
3. Will removing the Confederate Flag change anything for the better (racism, hatred).
4. Are symbols really the cause of mass shootings or should the discussion be more in check with reality (mental health and gun safety).
5. The denial of the roots of racism and why it exists in society.
6. The biases written into history to avoid exposing hypocrisy.
7. The overreactions of society fueled by social media (this forum and all the video clips is but one example).
8. How ideology has hijacked common sense regarding the unity of our species. Humans are creative in their ways to be divisive.
9. The hidden agenda of intolerance.
10. The hypocrisy of many (not all) of the "deflaggers" by not responding to the question, "how have you personally shown respect to African Americans (supporting the NAACP, supporting the Black Panthers, hiring African Americans into your businesses and inviting them into your home, using your bed taxes and other resources to market more African American tourism into Sowal, etc.).

There are many more points of discussion going on within this thread so choose your poison. The thread has been eye opening regarding divisive thoughts and words. Name calling has generally been on the side of those wanting to remove the flag and an open invitation to share a beer on the other side. Some of the deflaggers seem to be more aggressive and divisive and angry while the other side is willing to purchase the beer for them in an effort heal their personal wounds of slavery. Okay, I am going to far but the point is there is too much anger on this subject. We really should try and be more civil to each other. Why not?

welcome and thanks for posting and joining the discussion. As with many social issues, there are many layers and many opinions. And we are all coming from a different experience and perspective.

I think your post is at least in part unfair to people participating here, especially when using words such as hypocrisy, divisive, anger, overreactions, intolerance, etc -- and especially as they relate to fellow posters who have given their honest viewpoints, and further when you point to only one side as demonstrating these behaviors. Instead of making these assumptions about others here, why not just tell us your opinion on whether or not the confederate flag should stay on public grounds, and how it should be handled, and why... I am interested in knowing since you've taken the time to post and must have a personal opinion (other than your reaction to opinions of select people here).
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,395
1,814
welcome and thanks for posting and joining the discussion. As with many social issues, there are many layers and many opinions. And we are all coming from a different experience and perspective.

I think your post is at least in part unfair to people participating here, especially when using words such as hypocrisy, divisive, anger, overreactions, intolerance, etc -- and especially as they relate to fellow posters who have given their honest viewpoints, and further when you point to only one side as demonstrating these behaviors. Instead of making these assumptions about others here, why not just tell us your opinion on whether or not the confederate flag should stay on public grounds, and how it should be handled, and why... I am interested in knowing since you've taken the time to post and must have a personal opinion (other than your reaction to opinions of select people here).
Teresa, I need to sincerely apologize for the confusion. I used another member of my family's computer to make that post and forgot to login my name. I went back and reread all the posts and I need to apologize to Andy A and everyone else who saw a partially different name as mputnal3. I just read this and went OMG because I did not realize it until now. I speak for myself and that post was all mine. There may be other putnals out there but my guess is that they are related to me so I apologize to them as well. It was MY response to Poppy!

Now, I feel I must respond to your response. I am still surprised that you use many more words to lecture the side that does not fully agree with your side. I for one have noticed your bias in this. Before you fire off another lecture let me also admit that I understand my bias BUT I have also tried extremely hard to reach out to the other side of this issue AND you have as well. I do not believe that it is your intent be biased but I am just saying that I now feel it after that post. Let me also make this clear, those words ARE my personal opinions. I am not just posting because I have nothing else to do but because I am just as passionate as you and I have chosen to make the time sacrifice just as you and everyone else. I have made it clear that I believe that Walton County has every right to make the decision about the Confederate Flag and we should ALL respect that opinion. I have made it clear that there is hypocrisy divisiveness, anger, overreactions and intolerance by some (not all) of those wanting to remove the Confederate Flag. There has also been rude and crude comments coming from at least 4 people on that side of removing the Flag. These are MY opinions and I fully realize I am not the Grand Poopah! I own a business down here and believe me I fully expect to lose business from some of you and so this is more than a time sacrifice for me. I stand behind ALL off my comments and opinions AND reserve the right to be allowed them...
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,893
9,500
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
Ok, I thought that post sounded familiar. And I've asked you the same. What is your opinion on the issue.. Can you state that clearly without putting others into boxes with labels on them? Maybe you aren't comfortable sharing that opinion. That's ok. You're using many words to divide people into sides but few to connect. I believe that many of us have more in common on the issue than not.

Your post was your observation of those you happen to not agree. It is filled with thoughts about the views of others but is it constructive? Or is it a whine fest?

I appreciate your sharing of thoughts. Just trying to get to the bottom of your actual position. I know you must have one!
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,395
1,814
Really, you don't know what my opinion is? In summary I am for an ACCURATE HISTORY OF THE WAR BETWEEN THE STATES, RESPECT FOR THE CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS, RESPECT FOR ALL AMERICAN SOLDIERS, RESPECT FOR ALL PEOPLE REGARDLESS OF COLOR OR RELIGION OR POLITICS. If Walton County chooses to keep the Confederate Flag I will respect their decision and I would hope that you will too. My expectations of others are to be CIVIL but I can tolerate a lot.

I do not really have a response to your comments regarding a whine fest but I do find it out of character for you.
 
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