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Kaydence

Beach Fanatic
Jan 19, 2017
1,415
1,124
Florida
Some things just make you go "hmmmmm"! The agenda is becoming much clearer now.

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The Walton County Democrats were awarded a $2,500 Grant while at the Democratic Conference in St. Petersburg on April 1. These grant monies will be used for several community events through the next year, including a Juneteenth celebration to be held on Saturday, June 17 in DeFuniak Springs, where the Emancipation Proclamation will be read at the County Courthouse, along with a plea to remove the Confederate Flag.
 

PoppaJ

SoWal Insider
Oct 9, 2015
8,336
20,139
It is disrespectful to offend anyone with intent. There is one side of this debate that intends on being disrespectful. I challenge anyone especially African Americans to read ALL the post and make a statement regarding who is disrespecting who. The problem is of course there are no African Americans who are reading the Sowal forum. If the liberal agenda is diversity where is it in Sowal when it comes to African Americans? If the liberal agenda is about sensitivity and respect and progressive ideals your words come off as omnipotent beings who believe you are the gate keepers to an accurate history, community diversity, morality and general good will to ALL of humanity. Just go back to page one of this thread and read. There are good people on both sides of this issue and then there are a few who choose to call people disgusting names. Everyone who supports removing the Confederate Flag should be ashamed of those that are carrying your torch in this thread. This was a great opportunity to have a debate but it was hijacked by those taking extreme liberal positions. This thread is a good example of what is happening to our Country. Extreme positions will lead us into a never ending cycle of hatred. Why would anyone want to hate? Is that being evolved? Why not listen to what people are saying and take them for their word? If we fly the Confederate Flag as a memorial then why is that not enough for you? If the flag is removed and all the memorials of those Confederate soldiers would you then be satisfied? Based on this forum you would not be satisfied until your ideals are in control of everything. I think that is called supremism...
This Liberal just can not comprehend why anyone would want to celebrate a period in our history where the norm was the sale and purchase of human beings who were considered to be three fifths the value of a white person. Also, why any decent person would want to fly a flag that has been hijacked by altright hate groups, is an insult to some of your fellow Americans, and never represented what this nation is suposed to stand for. I believe there is a supremacy problem it's called white supremacy. I will follow whatever the courts decide on the matter and not roar thru black neighborhoods in my pickup.
 

Kaydence

Beach Fanatic
Jan 19, 2017
1,415
1,124
Florida
“True diversity and inclusiveness is not achieved by destroying the history of one group of people, in order to appease the demands of another,” Deo Vindice
 

PoppaJ

SoWal Insider
Oct 9, 2015
8,336
20,139
Yes removing a symbol celebrating slavery from the public square will magically erase all references to the civil war. This is why no one has ever heard of the Nazis and their concentration camps.
 

Kaydence

Beach Fanatic
Jan 19, 2017
1,415
1,124
Florida
Part 1...
Most Americans believe the U. S. “Civil War” was over slavery. They have to an enormous degree been miseducated. The means and timing of handling the slavery question were at issue, although not in the overly simplified moral sense that lives in postwar and modern propaganda. But had there been no Morrill Tariff there might never have been a war. The conflict that cost of the lives of 650,000 Union and Confederate soldiers and perhaps as many as 50,000 Southern civilians and impoverished many millions for generations might never have been.

A smoldering issue of unjust taxation that enriched Northern manufacturing states and exploited the agricultural South was fanned to a furious blaze in 1860. It was the Morrill Tariff that stirred the smoldering embers of regional mistrust and ignited the fires of Secession in the South. This precipitated a Northern reaction and call to arms that would engulf the nation in the flames of war for four years.

Prior to the U. S. “Civil War” there was no U. S. income tax. In 1860, approximately 95% of U. S. government revenue was raised by a tariff on imported goods. A tariff is a tax on selected imports, most commonly finished or manufactured products. A high tariff is usually legislated not only to raise revenue, but also to protect domestic industry form foreign competition. By placing such a high, protective tariff on imported goods it makes them more expensive to buy than the same domestic goods. This allows domestic industries to charge higher prices and make more money on sales that might otherwise be lost to foreign competition because of cheaper prices (without the tariff) or better quality. This, of course, causes domestic consumers to pay higher prices and have a lower standard of living. Tariffs on some industrial products also hurt other domestic industries that must pay higher prices for goods they need to make their products. Because the nature and products of regional economies can vary widely, high tariffs are sometimes good for one section of the country, but damaging to another section of the country. High tariffs are particularly hard on exporters since they must cope with higher domestic costs and retaliatory foreign tariffs that put them at a pricing disadvantage. This has a depressing effect on both export volume and profit margins. High tariffs have been a frequent cause of economic disruption, strife and war.

Prior to 1824 the average tariff level in the U. S. had been in the 15 to 20 % range. This was thought sufficient to meet federal revenue needs and not excessively burdensome to any section of the country. The increase of the tariff to a 20% average in 1816 was ostensibly to help pay for the War of 1812. It also represented a 26% net profit increase to Northern manufacturers.

In 1824 Northern manufacturing states and the Whig Party under the leadership of Henry Clay began to push for high, protective tariffs. These were strongly opposed by the South. The Southern economy was largely agricultural and geared to exporting a large portion of its cotton and tobacco crops to Europe. In the 1850’s the South accounted for anywhere from 72 to 82% of U. S. exports. They were largely dependent, however, on Europe or the North for the manufactured goods needed for both agricultural production and consumer needs. Northern states received about 20% of the South’s agricultural production. The vast majority of export volume went to Europe. A protective tariff was then a substantial benefit to Northern manufacturing states, but meant considerable economic hardship for the agricultural South.
 

Kaydence

Beach Fanatic
Jan 19, 2017
1,415
1,124
Florida
Part 2...
Northern political dominance enabled Clay and his allies in Congress to pass a tariff averaging 35% late in 1824. This was the cause of economic boom in the North, but economic hardship and political agitation in the South. South Carolina was especially hard hit, the State’s exports falling 25% over the next two years. In 1828 in a demonstration of unabashed partisanship and unashamed greed the Northern dominated Congress raised the average tariff level to 50%. Despite strong Southern agitation for lower tariffs the Tariff of 1832 only nominally reduced the effective tariff rate and brought no relief to the South. These last two tariffs are usually termed in history as the Tariffs of Abomination.

This led to the Nullification Crisis of 1832 when South Carolina called a state convention and “nullified” the 1828 and 1832 tariffs as unjust and unconstitutional. The resulting constitutional crisis came very near provoking armed conflict at that time. Through the efforts of former U. S. Vice President and U. S. Senator from South Carolina, John C. Calhoun, a compromise was effected in 1833 which over a few years reduced the tariff back to a normal level of about 15%. Henry Clay and the Whigs were not happy, however, to have been forced into a compromise by Calhoun and South Carolina’s Nullification threat. The tariff, however, remained at a level near 15% until 1860. A lesson in economics, regional sensitivities, and simple fairness should have been learned from this confrontation, but if it was learned, it was ignored by ambitious political and business factions and personalities that would come on the scene of American history in the late 1850’s.

High protective tariffs were always the policy of the old Whig Party and had become the policy of the new Republican Party that replaced it. A recession beginning around 1857 gave the cause of protectionism an additional political boost in the Northern industrial states.

In May of 1860 the U. S. Congress passed the Morrill Tariff Bill (named for Republican Congressman and steel manufacturer, Justin S. Morrill of Vermont) raising the average tariff from about 15% to 37% with increases to 47% within three years. Although this was remarkably reminiscent of the Tariffs of Abomination which had led in 1832 to a constitutional crisis and threats of secession and armed force, the U. S. House of Representatives passed the Bill 105 to 64. Out of 40 Southern Congressmen only one Tennessee Congressman voted for it.

U. S. tariff revenues already fell disproportionately on the South, accounting for 87% of the total even before the Morrill Tariff. While the tariff protected Northern industrial interests, it raised the cost of living and commerce in the South substantially. It also reduced the trade value of their agricultural exports to Europe. These combined to place a severe economic hardship on many Southern states. Even more galling was that 80% or more of these tax revenues were expended on Northern public works and industrial subsidies, thus further enriching the North at the expense of the South.
 

Kaydence

Beach Fanatic
Jan 19, 2017
1,415
1,124
Florida
Part 3...
In the 1860 election, Lincoln, a former Whig and great admirer of Henry Clay, campaigned for the high protective tariff provisions of the Morrill Tariff, which had also been incorporated into the Republican Party Platform. Thaddeus Stevens, the most powerful Republican in Congress and one of the co-sponsors of the Morrill Tariff, told an audience in New York City on September 27, 1860, that the two most important issues of the Presidential campaign were preventing the extension of slavery to new states and an increase in the tariff, but that the most important of the two was increasing the tariff. Stevens, a Pennsylvania iron manufacturer, was also one of the most radical abolitionists in Congress. He told the New York audience that the tariff would enrich the northeastern states and impoverish the southern and western states, but that it was essential for advancing national greatness and the prosperity of industrial workers. Stevens, who would become virtually the “boss’ of America after the assassination of Lincoln, advised the crowd that if Southern leaders objected, they would be rounded up and hanged.

Two days before Lincoln’s election in November of 1860, an editorial in the Charleston Mercury summed up the feeling of South Carolina on the impending national crisis:

“The real causes of dissatisfaction in the South with the North, are in the unjust taxation and expenditure of the taxes by the Government of the United States, and in the revolution the North has effected in this government, from a confederated republic, to a national sectional despotism.”

With the election of Lincoln and strengthened Northern dominance in Congress, Southern leaders in South Carolina and the Gulf states began to call for Secession. Lincoln endorsed the Morrill Tariff in his inaugural speech and promised to enforce it even on seceding Southern states. He signed the Act into law a few days after taking office in March of 1861. The South was filled with righteous indignation.

At first Northern public opinion as reflected in Northern newspapers of both parties recognized the right of the Southern States to secede and favored peaceful separation. A November 21, 1860, editorial in the Cincinnati Daily Press said this:

“We believe that the right of any member of this Confederacy to dissolve its political relations with the others and assume an independent position is absolute.”

The New York Times on March 21, 1861, reflecting the great majority of editorial opinion in the North summarized in an editorial:

“There is a growing sentiment throughout the North in favor of letting the Gulf States go.”

Northern industrialists became nervous, however, when they realized a tariff dependent North would be competing against a free-trade South. They feared not only loss of tax revenue, but considerable loss of trade. Newspaper editorials began to reflect this nervousness. Events in April would engulf the nation in cataclysmic war.

Lincoln met secretly on April 4, 1861, with Colonel John Baldwin, a delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention. Baldwin, like a majority of that convention would have preferred to keep Virginia in the Union. But Baldwin learned at that meeting that Lincoln was already committed to taking some military action at Fort Sumter in South Carolina. He desperately tried to persuade Lincoln that military action against South Carolina would mean war and also result in Virginia’s secession. Baldwin tried to persuade Lincoln that if the Gulf States were allowed to secede peacefully, historical and economic ties would eventually persuade them to reunite with the North. Lincoln’s decisive response was,

“And open Charleston, etc. as ports of entry with their ten percent tariff? What then would become of my tariff?”

Despite Colonel Baldwin’s advice, on April 12, 1861, Lincoln manipulated the South into firing on the tariff collection facility of Fort Sumter in volatile South Carolina. This achieved an important Lincoln objective. Northern opinion was now enflamed against the South for “firing on the flag.” Three days later Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers to put down the Southern “rebellion”. This caused the Border States to secede along with the Gulf States. Lincoln undoubtedly calculated that the mere threat of force backed by a now more unified Northern public opinion would quickly put down secession. His gambit, however, failed spectacularly and would erupt into a terrible and costly war for four years.

Shortly after Lincoln’s call to put down the “rebellion;” a prominent Northern politician wrote to Colonel Baldwin to enquire what Union men in Virginia would do now. His response was:

“There are now no Union men in Virginia. But those who were Union men will stand to their arms, and make a fight which shall go down in history as an illustration of what a brave people can do in defense of their liberties, after having exhausted every means of pacification.”

The Union Army’s lack of success early in the war, the need to keep anti-slavery England from coming into the war on the side of the South, and Lincoln’s need to appease the radical abolitionists in the North led to increasing promotion of freeing the slaves as a noble cause to justify what was really a dispute over fair taxation and States Rights.

Writing in December of 1861 in a London weekly publication, the famous English author, Charles Dickens, who was a strong opponent of slavery, said these things about the war going on in America:

“The Northern onslaught upon slavery is no more than a piece of specious humbug disguised to conceal its desire for economic control of the United States.”

Karl Marx, like most European socialists of the time favored the North. In an 1861 article published in England, he articulated very well what the major British newspapers, the Times, the Economist, and Saturday Review, had been saying:

“The war between the North and South is a tariff war. The war, is further, not for any principle, does not touch the question of slavery, and in fact turns on the Northern lust for power.”

The Tariff question and the States Rights question were therefore strongly linked. Both are linked to the broader issues of limited government and a strong Constitution. The Morrill Tariff dealt the South a flagrant political injustice and impending economic hardship and crisis. It therefore made Secession a very compelling alternative to an exploited and unequal union with the North.

How to handle the slavery question was an underlying tension between North and South, but one of many tensions. It cannot be said to be the cause of the war. Fully understanding the slavery question and its relations to those tensions is beyond the scope of this article, but numerous historical facts demolish the propagandistic morality play that a virtuous North invaded the evil South to free the slaves. Five years after the end of the War, prominent Northern abolitionist, attorney and legal scholar, Lysander Spooner, put it this way:

“All these cries of having ‘abolished slavery,’ of having ‘saved the country,’ of having ‘preserved the Union,’ of establishing a ‘government of consent,’ and of ‘maintaining the national honor’ are all gross, shameless, transparent cheats—so transparent that they ought to deceive no one.”

Yet apparently many today are still deceived and even prefer to be deceived.

The Southern states had seen that continued union with the North would jeopardize their liberties and economic wellbeing. Through the proper constitutional means of state conventions and referendums they sought to withdraw from the Union and establish their independence just as the American Colonies had sought their independence from Great Britain in 1776 and for very similar reasons. The Northern industrialists, however, were not willing to give up their Southern Colonies.

In addition to the devastating loss of life and leadership during the War, the South suffered considerable damage to property, livestock, and crops. The policies of “Reconstruction” and “carpetbagger” state governments further exploited and robbed the South, considerably retarding economic recovery. Further, high tariffs and discriminatory railroad shipping taxes continued to favor Northern economic interests and impoverish the South for generations after the war. It is only in relatively recent history that the political and economic fortunes of the South have begun to rise.

Unjust taxation has been the cause of many tensions and much bloodshed throughout history. The Morrill Tariff was certainly a powerful factor predisposing the South to seek its independence and determine its own destiny. As outrageous and unjust as the Morrill Tariff was, its importance has been largely ignored and even purposely obscured. It does not fit the politically correct images and myths of popular American history. Truth, however, is always the high ground. It will have the inevitable victory

Had it not been for the Morrill Tariff there would have been no rush to Secession by Southern states and very probably no war. The Morrill Tariff of 1860, so unabashed and unashamed in its short-sighted, partisan greed, stands as an astonishing monument to the self-centered depravity of man and to its consequences. No wonder most Americans would like to see it forgotten and covered over with a more morally satisfying but largely false version of the causes of the Uncivil War.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,395
1,814
That's a broad statement.
Yes it is a broad statement and based on the 2010 Census for the 32459 zip code. The additional facts that you just posted are evidence that many people just really are out of touch with reality. During a campaign debate with Douglas, Lincoln said, "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality". Those wanting to remove the flag generally only quote Southern representatives with similar racial prejudices. History books only quote Southern prejudices so young people do not have an accurate history of America. Much of history is white washed except when it comes to Southern Heritage. Our schools teach that slavery ended with the Civil War which is not accurate. There is no group of people without prejudice and bias. In this thread there are a few on one side who are so insecure in their own values that they trash other people they do not know with emotionally charged words like racist and bigot and idiot and worse. Until this thread I thought liberals were progressive and now I see that some do not really care about being progressive and prefer to ridicule anyone who has a different opinion. Before this thread I thought that extremism was only on the conservative side because of all the negative rhetoric about President Obama. Both sides are to blame for allowing extreme obstructionist behaviors. We should be able to have pride in our heritage weather you live in the North, South, East or West or are white, black or in between. I am proud of Walton County for flying the Confederate Flag and making the effort to listen to all sides. If we start complaining every time a decision is made that we don't like then good luck with that...
 

Bob Wells

Beach Fanatic
Jul 25, 2008
3,380
2,857
Yes it is a broad statement and based on the 2010 Census for the 32459 zip code. The additional facts that you just posted are evidence that many people just really are out of touch with reality. During a campaign debate with Douglas, Lincoln said, "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality". Those wanting to remove the flag generally only quote Southern representatives with similar racial prejudices. History books only quote Southern prejudices so young people do not have an accurate history of America. Much of history is white washed except when it comes to Southern Heritage. Our schools teach that slavery ended with the Civil War which is not accurate. There is no group of people without prejudice and bias. In this thread there are a few on one side who are so insecure in their own values that they trash other people they do not know with emotionally charged words like racist and bigot and idiot and worse. Until this thread I thought liberals were progressive and now I see that some do not really care about being progressive and prefer to ridicule anyone who has a different opinion. Before this thread I thought that extremism was only on the conservative side because of all the negative rhetoric about President Obama. Both sides are to blame for allowing extreme obstructionist behaviors. We should be able to have pride in our heritage weather you live in the North, South, East or West or are white, black or in between. I am proud of Walton County for flying the Confederate Flag and making the effort to listen to all sides. If we start complaining every time a decision is made that we don't like then good luck with that...
The last sentence should really mean something to a few.
 

Kaydence

Beach Fanatic
Jan 19, 2017
1,415
1,124
Florida
Yes it is a broad statement and based on the 2010 Census for the 32459 zip code. The additional facts that you just posted are evidence that many people just really are out of touch with reality. During a campaign debate with Douglas, Lincoln said, "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality". Those wanting to remove the flag generally only quote Southern representatives with similar racial prejudices. History books only quote Southern prejudices so young people do not have an accurate history of America. Much of history is white washed except when it comes to Southern Heritage. Our schools teach that slavery ended with the Civil War which is not accurate. There is no group of people without prejudice and bias. In this thread there are a few on one side who are so insecure in their own values that they trash other people they do not know with emotionally charged words like racist and bigot and idiot and worse. Until this thread I thought liberals were progressive and now I see that some do not really care about being progressive and prefer to ridicule anyone who has a different opinion. Before this thread I thought that extremism was only on the conservative side because of all the negative rhetoric about President Obama. Both sides are to blame for allowing extreme obstructionist behaviors. We should be able to have pride in our heritage weather you live in the North, South, East or West or are white, black or in between. I am proud of Walton County for flying the Confederate Flag and making the effort to listen to all sides. If we start complaining every time a decision is made that we don't like then good luck with that...

I happen to know there are blacks who read SoWal. I don't know what their zip code is and I don't know that it matters. (That's what I meant by that's a broad statement.) Are they the majority on this board? Probably not.

That's aside I've never had issues with that flag, don't care about it one way or another. What I do care about are friends and neighbors and what that monument means to them, protecting their heritage and their ancestors who died and are memorialized on it.

As ugly as some people think our history is, it is what it is and taking down that flag today means the monument tomorrow and none of it will change history.
 
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