Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]

[steel1man]

Beachfront property owners should have the right to protect their property. Dunes help protect the houses. Before the storms in 2005 there were a lot more dunes and a lot more beach area. The dunes and beach have not built back up as they did in the past. I firmly believe this is due to the number of people on the beaches. Beachfront owners put up sand fence to rebuild the dunes they once had. Without a barrier, many beach goers feel free to climb all over what dunes you do have, sit on your walkover, climb up on the neighbors walk over when they aren't home, etc. The foot traffic keeps the dunes from building. People stomp all over the sea oats and think nothing of it. Many think this doesn't happen very often but it happens numerous times per day especially during tourist season. People will come to the beach and want to sit right at the vegetation line on the dune. Teach them to go sit where the beach is flat and not on the dunes. It would be great to educate the public on these things instead of referring to beachfront property owners as "selfish".

I agree 100% save the dunes !!!!! BUT YOU only own to the MHWL !! Which is normally 5-15' north of wet sand. Some of your signs are in the wet sand and you signed away your rights to a beach cop/vendor to rent umbrellas
who puts them south of your property line MHWL.
You can't have it ALL just what is deeded.
Where do you want the public to sit ? Public beach accesses are ruled by beach vendors.
#SavetheDunes!!! #savesomesand4me!!

Also I seriously doubt people sitting and walking next to the wet sand have Anything to do with beaches reclaiming sand after the hurricane. Wait till the BIG ONE you'll wish you had agreed to renourisment.

 

[Andy A]

Steelman, your above post is 100% correct. I don't wish to see another hurricane but it will happen. Some new beach front owners have a rude awakening coming and you're right about renourishment.

 

[FactorFiction]

Interestingly enough, "16 Beach Neighborhoods" are advertised by South Walton. In spite of the fact that they all boast the beautiful white sand, there are considerable differences that set them apart. One size really does NOT fit all on a number of controversial topics. Building dunes is not only legal, but encouraged. There are guidelines published to assist with maximizing the building of dunes. I, personally, have never seen anyone put "sand/snow" fencing down to the water line. Anyone who does that is likely to lose their sand fencing to an angry surf during just a regular storm, let alone a tropical storm or hurricane.

Regarding beach access and use, some constructive dialog on a number of controversial beach oriented topics might lead to resolution of or compromise on at least some of the issues. I see and hear many complaints about vendors. I wonder how much of the backlash from "private property" owners was created by the influx of so many vendors claiming to serve the public and tourists? That doesn't mean that there aren't places for vendors to be appreciated and successful, but they need to be properly vetted and staged.

There is also the problem with enforcement that has been mentioned many times in this forum. I can't help but believe that the tremendous increase in signs has almost everything to do with the Walton County Sheriff's Office SOP. How can people possibly know if they are settling on private property if there is nothing to indicate where public ends and private begins? My whole life (which is pretty lengthy), my family and friends have visited clearly marked public beaches in Santa Rosa, Okaloosa, and Walton Counties. I thought that was what everybody did. Now, I see that my family and friends may have been an anomaly. I can understand the desire for more public access and public beach, but I can also appreciate why people who have paid premium prices for property that included the beach (in addition to paying high taxes and insurance) would not appreciate having the public and tourists act as though they are entitled to the same benefits FREE that the property owner has paid dearly to call their own. Perhaps, I am just an optimist, but it seems to me that reasonable people could establish some guidelines that most people (property owners, inland residents, and tourists) could live with without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars litigating issues that just drive the citizens of Walton County apart and cause the tourists to questions whether this is the place to vacation.

 

[steel1man]

Interestingly enough, "16 Beach Neighborhoods" are advertised by South Walton. In spite of the fact that they all boast the beautiful white sand, there are considerable differences that set them apart. One size really does NOT fit all on a number of controversial topics. Building dunes is not only legal, but encouraged. There are guidelines published to assist with maximizing the building of dunes. I, personally, have never seen anyone put "sand/snow" fencing down to the water line. Anyone who does that is likely to lose their sand fencing to an angry surf during just a regular storm, let alone a tropical storm or hurricane.

Regarding beach access and use, some constructive dialog on a number of controversial beach oriented topics might lead to resolution of or compromise on at least some of the issues. I see and hear many complaints about vendors. I wonder how much of the backlash from "private property" owners was created by the influx of so many vendors claiming to serve the public and tourists? That doesn't mean that there aren't places for vendors to be appreciated and successful, but they need to be properly vetted and staged.

There is also the problem with enforcement that has been mentioned many times in this forum. I can't help but believe that the tremendous increase in signs has almost everything to do with the Walton County Sheriff's Office SOP. How can people possibly know if they are settling on private property if there is nothing to indicate where public ends and private begins? My whole life (which is pretty lengthy), my family and friends have visited clearly marked public beaches in Santa Rosa, Okaloosa, and Walton Counties. I thought that was what everybody did. Now, I see that my family and friends may have been an anomaly. I can understand the desire for more public access and public beach, but I can also appreciate why people who have paid premium prices for property that included the beach (in addition to paying high taxes and insurance) would not appreciate having the public and tourists act as though they are entitled to the same benefits FREE that the property owner has paid dearly to call their own. Perhaps, I am just an optimist, but it seems to me that reasonable people could establish some guidelines that most people (property owners, inland residents, and tourists) could live with without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars litigating issues that just drive the citizens of Walton County apart and cause the tourists to questions whether this is the place to vacation.

Agree, but why don t the owners just put up their Private Beach signs East to west along their southern property line aka MHWL. Then public would know they can't go north toward the residence.. End of problem.......

 

[FactorFiction]

Agree, but why don t the owners just put up their Private Beach signs East to west along their southern property line aka MHWL. Then public would know they can't go north toward the residence.. End of problem.......

The MHWL for a property survey is done at a specific point in time. Using that line across 365 days can end up with the line IN the water, in the wet sand, or in the dry sand. If the surveyed MHWL on a property is in the water or near the water, signs are not practical placed at the surveyed MHWL. Near the vegetation line or at some reasonable distance from the wet sand (maybe 30-50 feet?) might be more feasible. What would be even nicer is to figure out some ways where signs on each property are not necessary, but perhaps groups of properties are marked by a relatively modest sign on each end. MHWL properties tend to be grouped, not always, but a lot of the time. Of course, the best of all worlds would be that everyone who used the beach was considerate and respectful and property owners felt like they could share their property without sacrificing rights in the long term.

 

[JBBeached]

Interestingly enough, "16 Beach Neighborhoods" are advertised by South Walton. In spite of the fact that they all boast the beautiful white sand, there are considerable differences that set them apart. One size really does NOT fit all on a number of controversial topics. Building dunes is not only legal, but encouraged. There are guidelines published to assist with maximizing the building of dunes. I, personally, have never seen anyone put "sand/snow" fencing down to the water line. Anyone who does that is likely to lose their sand fencing to an angry surf during just a regular storm, let alone a tropical storm or hurricane.

Regarding beach access and use, some constructive dialog on a number of controversial beach oriented topics might lead to resolution of or compromise on at least some of the issues. I see and hear many complaints about vendors. I wonder how much of the backlash from "private property" owners was created by the influx of so many vendors claiming to serve the public and tourists? That doesn't mean that there aren't places for vendors to be appreciated and successful, but they need to be properly vetted and staged.

There is also the problem with enforcement that has been mentioned many times in this forum. I can't help but believe that the tremendous increase in signs has almost everything to do with the Walton County Sheriff's Office SOP. How can people possibly know if they are settling on private property if there is nothing to indicate where public ends and private begins? My whole life (which is pretty lengthy), my family and friends have visited clearly marked public beaches in Santa Rosa, Okaloosa, and Walton Counties. I thought that was what everybody did. Now, I see that my family and friends may have been an anomaly. I can understand the desire for more public access and public beach, but I can also appreciate why people who have paid premium prices for property that included the beach (in addition to paying high taxes and insurance) would not appreciate having the public and tourists act as though they are entitled to the same benefits FREE that the property owner has paid dearly to call their own. Perhaps, I am just an optimist, but it seems to me that reasonable people could establish some guidelines that most people (property owners, inland residents, and tourists) could live with without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars litigating issues that just drive the citizens of Walton County apart and cause the tourists to questions whether this is the place to vacation.

Well said.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

The MHWL for a property survey is done at a specific point in time. Using that line across 365 days can end up with the line IN the water, in the wet sand, or in the dry sand. If the surveyed MHWL on a property is in the water or near the water, signs are not practical placed at the surveyed MHWL. Near the vegetation line or at some reasonable distance from the wet sand (maybe 30-50 feet?) might be more feasible. What would be even nicer is to figure out some ways where signs on each property are not necessary, but perhaps groups of properties are marked by a relatively modest sign on each end. MHWL properties tend to be grouped, not always, but a lot of the time. Of course, the best of all worlds would be that everyone who used the beach was considerate and respectful and property owners felt like they could share their property without sacrificing rights in the long term.

To everyone:

That is one beautiful, articulate statement!

I wish I could just stop there but I can't. I now "tremble in fear" if I were to see someone setting up on our private beach. If I run them off, then I'm viewed as a bad neighbor. If I don't run them off, then I'm haunted by the concept of customary use and the associated requirement of uninterrupted use to validate it.

I've said many times in the past that I have never ran anyone off of our beach. BUT I'm not saying others in our area have not. It's difficult to tell a public straggler from an invited guest. Who wants to run up and down their beach all day long asking everyone where they are staying, assuming they were giving you an honest answer?

But the above bolded succinct statement from FactorFiction is exactly why most everyone has been taking such measures as signs, security guards, chains, etc., to make sure that the property is protected from any public use.

My greatest fear regarding all of this is for my and my neighbors' property to become inundated by the "public" to any degree like the private beach immediately to the east and west of BMB Regional access. It would definitely compromise my "quiet enjoyment of private property" as well as my paying guests that WE have enjoyed for so very long. This would compromise our rentals and ultimately our value. It can't be separated.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Agree, but why don t the owners just put up their Private Beach signs East to west along their southern property line aka MHWL. Then public would know they can't go north toward the residence.. End of problem.......

I can see right through this ridiculous question and obviously won't add anything else to the one answer so far.

How about stating or agreeing "for the record" that the 3 accesses on Blue Mountain Road to the west of the regional access are indeed available for use by the general public? Would that be asking too much for you to correct your previous assertion(s) that they are privately owned?

Call me crazy, but I thought you wanted more public beach for the public.

Why would you post such misleading statements?

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

steel1man, as much as it greatly pains me, I do fully agree with you regarding eliminating vending from public beaches.

If we SHARE this view, it must be RIGHT! Right? Right.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

After hunting for an appropriate smiley for steel1man I noticed this:



10 years ago I used to see in the above picture 2 kids playing beachball and 2 kids building a "selfie".

Now, it's possible that I see 2 individuals legally occupying space in state owned lands just south of the MHWL and 2 other individuals trespassing on dry sand property north of the MHWL who are jeopardizing our legal defense of uninterrupted use and should be asked to leave so that we don't lose the quiet enjoyment rights to our private property to customary use.

I'm just kidding. Don't pick it apart unless you're kidding.