Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]

[Porkchop]

TLDR: What's stopping the voters of this jurisdiction from putting a new tax—levied on beachfront property—onto the next ballot?

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John G's enlightened position—that the rights of private beach property holders should, in all instances, be respected and the letter of law enforced—has me thinking:

In so far as we live in a quasi-democracy, he's correct. While the "customary use" issue could take quite a long time to adjudicate, might a more expedient (and more democratic) solution to the lack of public beach access be to levy a special assessment on all beach-front private property?

Say, $1,000 per square foot of sand, per year, calculated north-to-south from the vegetation line to the historical mean high water mark (which the owner's own surveys, signs, and mercenaries security guards, describe as being several hundred feet into the Gulf) and east-to-west by the property boundaries.

The revenue generated (~$24.3B per year) could then be spent to purchase additional public beach, with a portion allocated to conducting a census of the Blue Mountain Beach Dune Snake.

The assessment would continue until such time as the public's need and desire for beach access is well-met. Should the property owners fail to pay the special assessment, a lien would be filed against the downland portion of the property and said property surrendered and forfeited to the county (and ultimately disposed of into the public trust.)

But that wouldn't be necessary because....

The assessment wouldn't actually cost the property owners anything. Their costs would simply be passed along to the vacation rental customers. While this might result in a slight "uptick" in rental rates, it would at the same time address what John G has quite accurately identified as the very root of the controversy: the calibre of vacation rental customers. As we all know, the less financially endowed are also the most ill-mannered. Special assessment means no more noisy rule-breakers.

It is clear that this assessment represents a win for ALL of South Walton and I'm confident that it will garner the full support and backing of both the public at large and (who having already established themselves as an exceedingly generous group) the beach property owners!

P - Preserve private property owner's rights
I - Improve the calibre of vacation rental customers
S - Secure beach property for public use and conservation
S - Snakes in Dunes!

 

[John G]

I love how every argument made on this site for taking the private property of others is based in the theory of entitlement and simple jealously over what another has and another does not.

Blame the property owner for their ability to obtain property that most all desire, yet cannot afford...or were unable to obtain them (your) selves.

It's all the fault of those damn rich beach front owners...

 

[James Bentwood]

I love how every argument made on this site for taking the private property of others is based in the theory of entitlement and simple jealously over what another has and another does not.

Blame the property owner for their ability to obtain property that most all desire, yet cannot afford...or were unable to obtain them (your) selves.

It's all the fault of those damn rich beach front owners...

Since you are so black and white let me put this in terms you can understand. Humans should have no more right to own beachfront than they have a right to own a sunset.

 

[Danny Glidewell]

As someone who supports customary use for Walton County's beaches, I must say that some of the arguments in favor make me very uncomfortable. The dry beach is a piece of property, no different legally from a piece of woodland property, farm property, property containing a restaurant, Walmart or private home. The public is no more entitled to it than it is entitled to use your deck or hunt your woodlands or use any other property UNLESS the public has always had the right to use said property. If the public has exercised such rights to use, with or without the express permission of the owner, then an easement comes into existence. My position is that the beaches have been regularly used by the public for decades and so over time such an easement, or customary use, came into legal existence. Our economy was deliberately based on the public's right to use both the wet and dry portions of the beach and the government, through the TDC, promoted such use that was almost universally recognized. Now times and ownership has changed and people are attempting to change the formula and restrict usage of property that the public has always used. Such a change would have a severely negative impact on our economy and harm thousands of people who work in the tourism industry as well as upland property owners who purchased their property at premium rates based on the right for them and their renters to have access to the beaches. My position is that these new beachfront property owners are the ones who seek to change the status quo and that the government must prevent that in order to protect the rights of the public that have been recognized over a long period of time. Allowing No Trespass signs to be placed and enforced erodes those rights and will destroy them if not halted immediately. The only other solution is for the government to purchase beachfront and make it accessible to the public. That is why I support the purchase of every foot of beachfront that we can buy at reasonable prices. I am not jealous of anyone nor do I want anything for free. I simply want things to continue as they have been for decades and I want to protect our economy.

 

[wastinaway]

I love how every argument made on this site for taking the private property of others is based in the theory of entitlement and simple jealously over what another has and another does not.

Blame the property owner for their ability to obtain property that most all desire, yet cannot afford...or were unable to obtain them (your) selves.

It's all the fault of those damn rich beach front owners...

It's not about being able to obtain it ourselves. If your property was built as firmly as your statements on here, it would be easy to spot - it would be the one with a 14' walled compound extending out into the gulf. Every post I can recall reading by you states that people should not even be allowed on your property, even though you've had enough blessings in your life to own beachfront property on one of the most beautiful beaches in the world. That should bring you a sense of gratitude and happiness that you've been so lucky in life.

I certainly can't tell you how to live your life, and with all of the inflammatory statements you light up on here I doubt you're reasonable enough to listen anyway. However, I know that I WILL own beachfront property one day, and when I do I will be happy to share it with those who aren't as fortunate as me - ASSUMING THEY USE IT IN A REASONABLE MANNER. I completely agree with the fact that people should not be on your deck/use your pool/knock on the door and request to use the bathroom/use your crossover for beach access/etc. I even agree that people should not erect tents/multiple umbrellas/carry coolers the size of refrigerators/trample the dunes/bring baby cribs, gas grills, boom boxes, or any other device typically intended for in-home use.

However, I do believe that people should bring a chair, a book, some kids and a blanket and sit down on any piece of the beach south of the dunes and not have homeowners panting, yelling, loading shotguns or calling the police.

 

[sharon davis]

Every post I can recall reading by you states that people should not even be allowed on your property, even though you've had enough blessings in your life to own beachfront property on one of the most beautiful beaches in the world. That should bring you a sense of gratitude and happiness that you've been so lucky in life.

Hey wastinaway,
Being able to own beach front property has nothing to do with Luck as you mention in your post. It has to do with working very hard all your life, and being able to enjoy
the end years of your life the way you would like after saving your money and planning. The problem is and will be, too many tourists squeezed into south walton beaches and roadways. The TDC advertised so well it brought everyone and their brother to our beaches. It would not be a problem if we had wide beaches and roads planned to carry the heavy load of vehicles. Because Walton county has never had a plan of any kind except taking in tax dollars, we are now in the middle of a crisis. Beaches along the Atlantic for the most part on the East Coast have much wider beaches and can handle the size of the crowds we experience here. Tourism is making our little piece of paradise bust at the seams. People that own beach front property and decide not to allow people on their property probably have a good reason for doing so based on their past experience and it is only going to get worse.

 

[Danny Glidewell]

There are differences between the Atlantic beaches and our area. The Atlantic beaches have been tourist destinations for many years and they are well into redevelopment and fixing problems that occur. Our area is relatively new to the development and destination business. Look at photos from the 70's and 80's, the area was radically different with almost no development occurring until SanDestin came in the mid-70's. We did not do a good job anticipating the tremendous growth along 30-A and so we are behind playing catch-up. We need leadership to make tough choices and build the necessary infrastructure. Redevelopment is messy and sometimes painful but necessary because the people are not going away and in fact more are coming every day.

 

[wastinaway]

Hey wastinaway,
Being able to own beach front property has nothing to do with Luck as you mention in your post. It has to do with working very hard all your life, and being able to enjoy
the end years of your life the way you would like after saving your money and planning. The problem is and will be, too many tourists squeezed into south walton beaches and roadways. The TDC advertised so well it brought everyone and their brother to our beaches. It would not be a problem if we had wide beaches and roads planned to carry the heavy load of vehicles. Because Walton county has never had a plan of any kind except taking in tax dollars, we are now in the middle of a crisis. Beaches along the Atlantic for the most part on the East Coast have much wider beaches and can handle the size of the crowds we experience here. Tourism is making our little piece of paradise bust at the seams. People that own beach front property and decide not to allow people on their property probably have a good reason for doing so based on their past experience and it is only going to get worse.

Sharon,
I agree completely with your statements that there has been no foresight in planning. I am an engineer in the area, and experience the lack of planning every day through the course of my business. Any changes that have been made have all been reactionary in Walton County - nothing happens until the problem has already appeared, then a remedy is planned and implemented, usually many years after it was truly needed and without enough foresight to think about what will be needed even 5 years from now. TDC dollars should be used to create an effective planning group to help anticipate the growth of the area and improve it, with a program modeled after cities such as Raleigh-Durham, NC. Then the plan should actually be used, and not collect dust on a shelf somewhere.

However, I completely disagree that luck doesn't play a part in the fortune of life. Every successful person I've ever met has been given opportunities by a person or organization who sees your true potential, or helps set you up for success - usually through training, recognition, or both. That is a lucky set of circumstances, that along with your hard work allows you to succeed.

I'm not trying to steer this thread to such an unrelated topic, so I'll stop there. But I know I'll consider myself very lucky the day I buy my beachfront property that I have had good health, the chance to go to college, many opportunities, and parents that taught me the value of hard work that all added up to me being where I am.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Danny, I appreciate your position and the thought behind it. You correctly point out that "real development" in our area didn't start until the 70's and 80's as opposed to the Atlantic coast which started much earlier.

The property we own was built in the early 80's and was the first condos (if not the first) in our immediate area. Assuredly there was little to no use of our section of the beach by the public. There was no need. I've mentioned this a few times in the past: when people arrived at the public access during those times, there was no reason to have to hike a few hundred feet to find a tranquil spot on the beach. And it was pretty much that way when we purchased the property 15 years ago.

Of course times are different.

I understand your concept of customary use, really. But how does one justify (other than idealistically) opening the entire beach for public use when there may be only a hand-full of property parcels adjacent to heavily used accesses where customary use might be successfully argued?

...That is why I support the purchase of every foot of beachfront that we can buy at reasonable prices.

Just curious, what would you consider to be a reasonable price with all that's at stake? I might be ready to sell. On the flip side, why would you encourage this solution if you think customary use might prevail?

One more observation...this idea that our beach economic engine will crash into a brick wall simply is not true in my opinion. It's still running very strong right now as evidenced by TDC revenues even at the height of this debate. Perhaps this push-back on uncontrolled growth (no parking, no bathrooms, crowded 30A, etc.) should be viewed a little differently....

That is instead of the economic engine crashing against the brick wall (finite beach space and infrastructure), perhaps today's new tracks could be seen as simply curving around and running parallel to the brick wall. In the end, the engine keeps on running - but the number of cars it's pulling stays the same.

 

[Danny Glidewell]

I support public ownership as the best possible solution to our problems. I do not have any burning desire to fight nor do I think such a fight is beneficial to anyone. So the government purchasing property on the beach will help both sides. But I fully believe that if the issue is pushed customary use will prevail because in my opinion customary use follows existing law. This could change if the BCC does not act decisively to protect those rights.