Scenic 30A and 395 Intersection in Seagrove Beach

Discussion in 'All About SoWal' started by rdelong43065, Oct 16, 2008.

  1. BeachRob

    BeachRob Beach Lover

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    Here's something useful. NC State did a statistical study of American linguistic tendencies, and plotted them on a US map.

    Here is "Roundabout":

    http://www.businessinsider.com/22-m...s-in-america-2013-6#so-are-traffic-circles-13

    Here is "Highway":

    http://www.businessinsider.com/22-m...e-west-coast-is-really-into-their-freeways-18


    Notice how light the Roundabout map is. One of the responses is "I have no word for this." Memphis/Tupelo/Huntsville is distinctly green. The rest of our feeder markets have light shaded blue or red because there was no clear response between the 3 replies.

    They say the eskimos have 50 words for snow. I'd be willing to bet there were no words for snow in Caribbean indigenous languages. Which culture would you say is better at building an igloo?

    There... I fixed it.
     
  2. Kurt Lischka

    Kurt Lischka Admin Staff Member

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    Com Meadows seems to have come to the same conclusion as many of us on this thread:

    You can subscribe to her newsletter at http://eepurl.com/uBVYD
     
  3. Jenksy

    Jenksy Beach Fanatic

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    It seems like a turn lane is too simple and too inexpensive and too good of an idea for most of our commission to agree.
     
  4. tsutcli

    tsutcli Beach Fanatic

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    Saturday, 9:30 AM - Traffic on 30a - westbound was backed up to Balance with slowing traffic starting at Tom Thumb. Tourists leaving dodge and trying to go north on 395. Why can't county assign a deputy to direct traffic at this intersection on week-ends during the summer? Is this too much much for their little minds to grasp, or more likely they never have to experience this disaster because they do not live here( out of sight out of mind ). Disgusted with their lack of interest in the problems associated with tourists except the money they can collect.
     
  5. Zebraspots

    Zebraspots Beach Fanatic

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    I think they are (rightly) more focused on emergency flooding and washed out roads today.
     
  6. tsutcli

    tsutcli Beach Fanatic

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    So what's their excuse (or yours) for the other 99% of the time? I don't believe they can't spare one person for part of a shift one day a week during high season.
     
  7. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

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    267-2000, try that, your voice on the other end of the line might be the first step to addressing that problem...
     
  8. ottomatik

    ottomatik Beach Fanatic

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    They should add 2 more roads or escape routes thru the park to 98. One in Watercolor & another around Deer Lake Park.
    Also change side walks or bike path to the Southside of 30A.This way pedestrians and bikers would not be holding up 395 traffic
     
  9. Abby Prentiss

    Abby Prentiss Beach Fanatic

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    No more roads! Keep SoWal Scenic! Take down signs, bury utilities, fix existing stuff.
     
  10. tsutcli

    tsutcli Beach Fanatic

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    Tried that - no results. In another post I called about the panhandling at 30a/395 last Saturday. Said they would check it out and the officer would call me. No results/call back again. The gov't here, including Sheriff's, don't take residents seriously - only care about tourists and the dollar. Their decision on a roundabout at this intersection is just another example of their tone-deafness.
     
  11. miznotebook

    miznotebook Beach Fanatic

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    Tried to attach. See if this works.

    roundabout.jpg
     

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  12. James Bentwood

    James Bentwood Beach Fanatic

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    Thank you Miznotebook!

    First thing I see is that the homes on SE corner actually gain front yard. I assume this is because Stephens/EBSCO owns one of them. In turn they give up a little of their EBSCO property on the NE corner. Maybe this would be OK, after all they will now have more headlights shining into their restaurant.

    On the other hand we now know for certain why they aren't moving the bike path to the south side which we know if that isn't done makes this whole thing a cluster.

    THE ONLY solution that makes sense is to move the bike path to south side and create a right turn lane on NE corner with yield sign on a gentle curve as shown. PROBLEM SOLVED!

    I also suggest adding more roadside parking for V restaurant on the east and especially the west side of 395.
     
  13. Beach Runner

    Beach Runner beats on hood

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    The purpose of a roundabout is to keep the traffic moving. If a pedestrian is trying to cross 395 and a vehicle is in the roundabout trying to go north, the vehicle will have to stop, thus blocking the roundabout (especially if that vehicle is an 18 wheeler). Traffic doesn't keep moving, so that makes the roundabout ineffective. The pedestrian crossovers need to be totally outside the circular center and the triangular separators that make up the roundabout in order to keep traffic moving more continuously.

    I agree with James Bentwood on his simpler solution with the bike path on the south and a right turn lane. Move 30A to the north slightly so that the property owners on the south don't lose their space. Put in a bike path crossover from south to north several car lengths from the intersection, say at the west property line of V.

    BTW you don't see pedestrian crossings in the photo in Bob's post #175.
     
  14. Beach Runner

    Beach Runner beats on hood

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    Okay, so here's how the roundabouts work in Australia. This is a three-way at a normally very busy intersection in the surfing resort of Torquay, Victoria, AU. I've used it several times. It works.

    Color code:
    Red: Vehicles must (EDIT) yield to vehicles already in the circle. Pedestrians can't cross here.
    Green: Vehicles do not give the right of way to pedestrians in order to keep the traffic flowing.
    Magenta: Vehicles should give the right of way to pedestrians, but are not required to.
    Blue: Pedestrian crosswalks. Pedestrians can't cross the green areas if a vehicle is coming because that would stop the flow of traffic. Pedestrians can cross the magenta if a vehicle stops for them (which the vehicle should do).

    This way the traffic keeps flowing. If you're gonna mix up a roundabout (which again is designed to keep traffic flowing) with pedestrian crosswalks, this is the only way to do it. It works in Australia. I've been at this intersection quite a few times.

    Note: They drive on the left side of the road in AU, so things would have to be reversed in the US. Except in one place I know of -- on the bridge at I-285 and Ashford-Dunwoody road, vehicles drive on the left.
     

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  15. Beach Runner

    Beach Runner beats on hood

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    Here's the 30A-395 equivalent. I still think that moving the bike path to the south and adding a right turn lane would be safer. Can you imagine a bunch of big SUVs and kids in golf carts trying to navigate that roundabout together if they've never been on a roundabout?
     

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  16. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    I agree that the bike path should be on the south side. I doubt any study has been made on the volume of traffic that uses it. (Most of these plans are produced at a computer with ample air-conditioning, if you know what I mean.) But, regardless of that, the pedestrian/bike paths should be located as far away from the circle as possible. I don't see any indication of the four driveways that will also be dumping into the circle...
     
  17. Beach Runner

    Beach Runner beats on hood

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    It's not a perfect analogy. Also there's the issue of the cars that park across 395 from Seagrove Market.

    But in a roundabout you need to keep the traffic in the circular section moving, or otherwise there could be a deadlock (in operating system terminology) and no one goes anywhere. There are algorithms that can stop this (the simplest being a traffic cop at peak times).

    I'm not a civil engineer, so I am talking outside my field of expertise. I am just giving an example of what I've seen work.

    Certainly the county has done the research to determine the best solution from an engineering and a human/vehicle interaction perspective, as well as looking at raw data and analyzing it in a mathematical model using software like MATLAB.
     
  18. Matt J

    Matt J SWGB

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    To put it in plumbing terms:

    I don't care what kind of pretty pipe you put in place, you can still only get so much water through it. Seagrove needs another pipe.
     
  19. Lake View Too

    Lake View Too SoWal Insider

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    Well said.
     
  20. deborsk

    deborsk Beach Lover

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    Roundabout or turn lane at 395?

    Just noticed yesterday and today, the county is clearing trees, etc on the south side of 30 starting at Whiskey Bravo and heading up to 395. Do you think that means they have discarded the roundabout idea and will actually put in a turn lane, moving the bike path to the south side? Wishful thinking or reality? anybody know for sure?

    On a side note, my daughter thought it strange to see a prisoner walking along 30 A with a chainsaw this morning where they are doing the cutting. :blink:
     

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