Should we be like Saudis re Religious Freedom?

[Lynnie]

You're great, Alicia. Not sure if I've ever told you that, but I think you're pretty cool.

But, the facts ARE INDEED the facts and we as a Nation did not arbitrarily call 'Freedom Fries' or boycott French Wines, which are delightful......and, I am a bonafide wino.

We took a stand against the French bowing down to terrorist harboured nations.......for money. The French know this and the World knows this. And, sometimes I take a position so that history isn't rewritten. I love the French, but they sold themselves out for the wrong reasons. And, with the comments I saw here, I felt like standing up.

Admittedly, I am tipsy, however.

 

[Alicia Leonard]

You're great, Alicia. Not sure if I've ever told you that, but I think you're pretty cool.

But, the facts ARE INDEED the facts and we as a Nation did not arbitrarily call 'Freedom Fries' or boycott French Wines, which are delightful......and, I am a bonafide wino.

We took a stand against the French bowing down to terrorist harboured nations.......for money. The French know this and the World knows this. And, sometimes I take a position so that history isn't rewritten. I love the French, but they sold themselves out for the wrong reasons. And, with the comments I saw here, I felt like standing up.

Admittedly, I am tipsy, however.

Great, show me documented facts and I'm sure that played a part in some of it.I'm not even arguing a point on this, except at the time, I remembered when this happened that it had something to do with them not wanting to invade Iraq, supposedly. I Googled it and that was the first thing that popped up. I could really give a rat's patootie what we call fries, but I believed the way it started was what I remembered, vaguely, about them not standing with us. I didn't move on the floor to declare them freedom fries. Fries aren't even from France. They're from the same people that make waffles............mmmmmmmmmm..................waffles...........

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80700,00.html

WASHINGTON ? There's no more "French" in the "fries" served in House cafeterias on Capitol Hill.
Chairman of the House Administration Committee Bob Ney, R-Ohio, ordered cafeterias Tuesday to rename "French fries" to "freedom fries" in a display of congressional pique at French intransigence over war with Iraq.
Ney and Rep. Walter Jones, R-N.C., made the name changes official when they personally altered the menu signs in the Longworth building's cafeteria.
"Once again, our brave men and women in the American military are putting their lives on the line to ensure the freedom and security of others, and once again, France is sitting on the sidelines," Ney said.
"Over the years, France has enjoyed all of the benefits of an alliance with the United States, and all our nation has received in return is a trade deficit and a cry for help when their appeasement efforts fail. This action today is a small but symbolic effort to show the strong displeasure of many on Capitol Hill with the actions of our so-called ally, France."

 

[LuciferSam]

I remember a little about the Freedom Fries. Didn't that have more to do with loans to France by Muslim Nations that were being forgiven after 9.11.01, which is why France wasn't supportive of the Western World - inclusive of "nations which harbour terrorists" - this was the biggest sticking point if I remember?

I also recall after just a few short months of their decision, France pleading to Americans to buy their yummy wines because there had been an almost national boycott after learning the real reason for France's decision. It was all about money and how France could profit, nothing more and certainly not placing human capital first.

And, you all know by now that I love the French, so there's no reason for me to take an opposing position.......except for the facts.

Nope, freedom fries was the brainchild of a bunch of fat angry jingoistic ignorant white American folk FYI.

 

[Lynnie]

If you google 'Freedom Fries,' you get the information surrounding the fries and general boycott of anything French. If you google France's relations with Middle Eastern Countries, you uncover the real reasons from their relationship to Saddam Hussein and nuclear weapons inclusive of sales of weapons to Iraq (even during the years of sanctions, which were imposed during the Clinton Adminstration). You see the real reasons they back away from these sanctions as well as the intricacies between France and Syria, France and Iran, France and Lebanon....and, this boycott wasn't the first; there had been several beginning in the 1980's, but this one was the most reported......for obvious reasons. I recall several discussions (in the media) surrounding this as France was pretty weak spined when it came to standing up to "terrorism."

They had even received threats from terrorists and while we take the position that we don't negotiate with terrorists, France caved. We began to boycott them, most likely around Dec 2002/Jan 2003 and since we are such large consumers, it didn't take long for France to feel this in every facet of their economy. As early as April 2003 (we invaded Iraq in March) they were asking for Americans to buy their products again and began to promote their tourism as many had changed their travel plans to France by that time.

You're right, french fries aren't French, but Freedom Fries was an effort to send the message that we aren't doing anything French based upon the lack of support and the reasons for the lack of support.

Interestingly, while they blamed the reduced wine sales on this particular boycott, there is even evidence that the US boycott of French wines in the US actually had nothing (or, not as much as the media reported and the French claimed) to do with the invasion of Iraq and its ultimate perceived pansy support. Rather, their sales always dip after holiday periods and there had been a downward trend of these sales for a lengthy period of time, even prior to the attacks of 9.11.01.

 

[ugabuga]

Article by Peter Beinart:

"Words I never thought I?d write: I pine for George W. Bush. Whatever his flaws, the man respected religion, all religion....

Once upon a time, Republicans were so confident that the vast majority of Muslims preferred freedom to jihad that they believed the U.S. could install democracy in Iraq within months. Now, confronted with a group of Muslim Americans who want to build a cultural center that includes Jews and Christians on the board (how many churches and synagogues do that?), GOP leaders call them terrorists because they don?t share Benjamin Netanyahu?s view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

Beinart also criticizes his fellow Jews for joining the forces of religious intolerance & says that they should remember when Jews were on the receiving end.

Ground Zero Mosque Controversy: America Has Disgraced Itself - The Daily Beast

 

[Alicia Leonard]

Article by Peter Beinart:

"Words I never thought I?d write: I pine for George W. Bush. Whatever his flaws, the man respected religion, all religion....

Once upon a time, Republicans were so confident that the vast majority of Muslims preferred freedom to jihad that they believed the U.S. could install democracy in Iraq within months. Now, confronted with a group of Muslim Americans who want to build a cultural center that includes Jews and Christians on the board (how many churches and synagogues do that?), GOP leaders call them terrorists because they don?t share Benjamin Netanyahu?s view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

Beinart also criticizes his fellow Jews for joining the forces of religious intolerance & says that they should remember when Jews were on the receiving end.

Ground Zero Mosque Controversy: America Has Disgraced Itself - The Daily Beast

First they came for the Mosque, But I did not attend a Mosque, so I said nothing;-)

 

[beachFool]

First they came for the Mosque, But I did not attend a Mosque, so I said nothing;-)

Then they came for the gays. But I was not gay so I said nothing.

 

[scooterbug44]

My guess is that most of the people "opposed" have no idea what it is like to be in a minority group and do not have much contact with people who aren't exactly like them.

I've been a religious minority, a gender minority, an age minority, an ethnic minority, and a "non-citizen" minority. It is quite an eye opening experience.

 

[GoodWitch58]

My guess is that most of the people "opposed" have no idea what it is like to be in a minority group and do not have much contact with people who aren't exactly like them.

I've been a religious minority, a gender minority, an age minority, an ethnic minority, and a "non-citizen" minority. It is quite an eye opening experience.

I agree. I think this has a lot to do with it; add to that the intolerance that is taught in many churches (I will never understand that); and mix in with the right wing extremists who grab on to any issue/non-issue that will wring out the most emotion in their followers; and pour over the politicians who care only about getting re-elected so they can continue to get the perks they have arranged for themselves and you get Americans willing to give up basic rights that are the foundation of our very country! It is sad and unbelieveable IMO.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/08/19/99390/a-muslims-faith-in-america.html

As young children, we would ask him why he chose this country. He would calmly respond: "The acceptance of my faith that I received in my travels through this country, I would not be able to find anywhere else."

He would tell us about the people who respected his religious practice of praying five times a day and created spaces for him to pray in. He would fondly recall how warm and open people were



Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/08/19/99390/a-muslims-faith-in-america.html#ixzz0x5MJSiOR

 

[Geo]

I have heard many say the Sowal forum is left leaning. I disagree. But one thing is for certain, I find it to be more balanced than the FL Panhandle.

Here is a nice sign of the times. The republican party and much of the populace is making a sharp right turn. Check out what a Republican candidate for the House told a group of high school students in Panama City today!!!!

http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/florida/Mosque-sparks-House-candidate-comments-