Suppressed Climate Change Report

[Matt J]

I haven't heard much about this, any references?



Agree with you there. In one respect, keeping a vibrant farming industry going is a national security issue so we don't want to see farming getting exported, but I think the vast majority of this today is simply about buying votes.

I assume the first part was sarcasm.

It just kills me when I see someone in the produce department throwing away bananas because they have a few spots on them. Why not a "day old" produce bin? Lord knows the bargain hunters would go for it, or bill them as "Gourmet Banana Bread Breed".

 

[happy2Bme]

I assume the first part was sarcasm.

It just kills me when I see someone in the produce department throwing away bananas because they have a few spots on them. Why not a "day old" produce bin? Lord knows the bargain hunters would go for it, or bill them as "Gourmet Banana Bread Breed".

....or is is "Bred for Gourmet Banana Bread"?

 

[pgurney]

Question - could someone please give me an example of when we have drastically changed the environment and pollution level of an area and it had a POSITIVE outcome for the humans and animals in that area. (Please note, someone making a bunch of money does not qualify as a positive outcome).

Not drastically changing your environment or polluting it seems like good ol' common sense to me - regardless of your views on science or religion.

First example I thought of was the Clean Water Act (CWA). We made a huge improvement changing our environment through the CWA. I understand this is bit of an opposite as to what your question was about, but pertinent nonetheless.

The CWA set water quality standards based on the beneficial use of US waterways. For example: trout streams and recreational waters had higher standards than others. The CWA act did NOT allow certain polluters to buy polluting rights, through middle-men who make a bunch of money on it, from municipalities that didn't pollute so much.

The CWA was based in science, people and our ecosystems were getting sick. In third-world nations people and ecosystems are still getting sick where sewage and industrial waste continues to be released into the same streams that people fish in, wash in and get water from. The water quality standards were based on real scientific studies, not by scientists that get their funding because they're on one band wagon or the other. There was a real problem and we found a real solution.

The Cap & Trade bill is based on a theory that hasn't been proven. There's not one scientific study out there that proves that increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere cause the earth to warm. From the beginning, this has been based on theory. There's nobody getting sick, there are no rising oceans based on increased CO2 levels. The predictions about how much our earth could warm are based on models. Those models are off-shoots of the exact same weather models that predict our weather 1 to 10 days out - we know how accurate those are.

The Cap & Trade bill doesn't make pollution better, it just allows polluters to buy the right to pollute from the lesser polluters....and it allows the middle-men to make a lot of money. It will shift jobs and manufacturing to countries like China and India, who don't have nearly as much as we do in the way of environmental regulations. That, very possibly/likely, will have a net negative effect on our global environment. Other countries will gain through it and we will pay for it...all based on an unproven theory.

 

[30A Skunkape]

• Acid Rain
• Smog
• Man Made Noise Pollution that harms sea animals
• Chemical pollution found in our oceans
• Hazardous waste and sewage spills
• Strip mining, deforestation, and other destructive practices
• Nuclear power plant accidents or leakage

Oh wait, you said POSITIVE - no, can't think of any ;-)

G

You see, here is the problem. Without doing one bit of research, I can just about guarantee that every category you cite above has decreased in The United States over the last 30 or 40 years (except maybe noise pollution). Concurrently, emerging nations (Russia, China, India...take your pick) have almost certainly increased their belching of pollutants into the environment.

Why do WE have to foot the bill for cleaning things up when we have a track record of doing a good job already?

 

[Gidget]

You see, here is the problem. Without doing one bit of research, I can just about guarantee that every category you cite above has decreased in The United States over the last 30 or 40 years (except maybe noise pollution). Concurrently, emerging nations (Russia, China, India...take your pick) have almost certainly increased their belching of pollutants into the environment.

Why do WE have to foot the bill for cleaning things up when we have a track record of doing a good job already?

This goes to many on the thread, but I just picked yours to quote since you quoted me

I guess my point was that we, citizens of the world, made the "mess" in the first place. Sure, I can site things we have cleaned up and improved AFTER the fact. But that's not how I read the question.

We can do better, but of course, and many of you are correct, we have done a lot to "fix" many wrongs. And just because China or Russia or any other country doesn't do their part doesn't take away our responsibility to do the right thing. Germany for instance has incorporated quite a bit of solar and Spain, wind and solar. They didn't sit around saying, we will wait for everyone to get on board.

That's just how I see it anyway.

OH please read Stolen Harvest if you want to get the real scoop on the world's agriculture. Chandra suggested it, and I just finished reading it. AMAZING book - truly a must read.

In closing I'd like to say that I think all of us on this forum want for a cleaner better world - in our own backyard and beaches and in the slums of India. There's no doubt I am sure we are on the same page when it comes to that.

G

 

[happy2Bme]

Suppressed Climate Change Repor

God gave us the world in which we live, and the brains that we have that guides us to ensure we utlilize that which is contained within the world in a manner that will sustain us, such that we (those before us, us, and those after us) might enjoy our existence, and prosper, from that which He has given us. If we utilize our God-given intelligence, we'll appropriately manage our resources until the time that they are no longer required.

For those who question the existence of "God"....if our amoebic/ monkey ancestors, us, and our three-fingered-orangutan offspring greedily rape our planet of its resources, we'll cease to exist. Ironically, we'll cease to exist anyway.......stuff happens, then we die.

 

[Matt J]

You see, here is the problem. Without doing one bit of research, I can just about guarantee that every category you cite above has decreased in The United States over the last 30 or 40 years (except maybe noise pollution). Concurrently, emerging nations (Russia, China, India...take your pick) have almost certainly increased their belching of pollutants into the environment.

Why do WE have to foot the bill for cleaning things up when we have a track record of doing a good job already?

You forgot about light pollution.

God gave us the world in which we live, and the brains that we have that guides us to ensure we utlilize that which is contained within the world in a manner that will sustain us, such that we (those before us, us, and those after us) might enjoy our existence, and prosper, from that which He has given us. If we utilize our God-given intelligence, we'll appropriately manage our resources until the time that they are no longer required.

For those who question the existence of "God"....if our amoebic/ monkey ancestors, us, and our three-fingered-orangutan offspring greedily rape our planet of its resources, we'll cease to exist. Ironically, we'll cease to exist anyway.......stuff happens, then we die.

Yeah, I'm a little over people who feel the solution to the financial crisis, deficit, and climate change is the rapture. Those are the people you should be the most leery of.

 

[30ashopper]

I assume the first part was sarcasm.

It just kills me when I see someone in the produce department throwing away bananas because they have a few spots on them. Why not a "day old" produce bin? Lord knows the bargain hunters would go for it, or bill them as "Gourmet Banana Bread Breed".

Apes in the jungle do that all the time, they are as picky as we are. Should we start a program to rehabilitate them?

Generally though I've not seen any reports on large scale waste in our produce and grain production, AFAIK, excess and then some is sold to organizations like the U.N. at reduced cost. I was curious about large scale waste, not picky shoppers.

 

[30ashopper]

This goes to many on the thread, but I just picked yours to quote since you quoted me

I guess my point was that we, citizens of the world, made the "mess" in the first place. Sure, I can site things we have cleaned up and improved AFTER the fact. But that's not how I read the question.

We can do better, but of course, and many of you are correct, we have done a lot to "fix" many wrongs. And just because China or Russia or any other country doesn't do their part doesn't take away our responsibility to do the right thing. Germany for instance has incorporated quite a bit of solar and Spain, wind and solar. They didn't sit around saying, we will wait for everyone to get on board.

That's just how I see it anyway.

OH please read Stolen Harvest if you want to get the real scoop on the world's agriculture. Chandra suggested it, and I just finished reading it. AMAZING book - truly a must read.

In closing I'd like to say that I think all of us on this forum want for a cleaner better world - in our own backyard and beaches and in the slums of India. There's no doubt I am sure we are on the same page when it comes to that.

G

How can you define something we did as being a "mess"? Are you saying the consequences of our existence are somehow 'synthetic' in the grand scheme of things?

 

[Matt J]

Apes in the jungle do that all the time, they are as picky as we are. Should we start a program to rehabilitate them?

Generally though I've not seen any reports on large scale waste in our produce and grain production, AFAIK, excess and then some is sold to organizations like the U.N. at reduced cost. I was curious about large scale waste, not picky shoppers.

Yeah, compare less than a million apes to, what is it these days, 6 billion people. My point is that the waste in produce alone goes into land fills as opposed to be composted, used as feed, or other reuse methods.

You must be one of those people that can't see the hurricane because there's a drop of water on your glasses.