Testing the sand for Customary Use
- Thread starter Kaydence
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Kaydence,
Pretty much see it the same way. BUT.....
If you open that door, then the “public” will eventually assume sooner than later that they are entitled to the whole beach. And the associated problems then follow. And of of course if we don’t run them off, then that’s one of the conditions of customary use.
Oh yeah, besides taxes and all (not that taxes are necesarily a criteria required to own private property), another absolute issue is LIABILITY. Insurance policies cover one’s entire property, down to the MHWL.
Did the county include in their customary use ordinance that the property owner would be held totally harmless by the county should an injury occur on that property?
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Yeah maybe....on the Persian Gulf.
Just having a little fun.
Now that’s something! I had no idea!!
Unbelievable, a popularity contest can trump (maybe I should use the word, supersede) the Constitution.
With thinking like that, no wonder we’re in this mess.
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If the Sheriff requires signs to post the surveyed property boundaries - OK. Walton County's requirement. Then don't vilify property owners for doing what the Sheriff and Walton county requires ... oh I forgot the Walton commissioners prohibited property owners from placing signs marking their property boundaries at all times.
Or...
How about Walton mark their 8 miles of public beach boundaries and by default the remainder of the 899 parcels are private property. If the Sheriff is going to make up the rules and use the wet sand, private property owner don't need to survey their properties, unless you/Walton want to prove the public landward MHWL property boundary is landward of the wet sand or near the toe of the dune. But I'm not worried about that MHWL survey either.
Your head is buried in the sand.
I've seen decades of storms. Seen how erosion is minimal in undeveloped areas in SoWal like to the west of state parks. Read about coastal geography and how seawalls and such hasten erosion, I've walked many miles of beaches far to the east and west of SoWal. We got our wonderful beaches from millions of years of erosion from the Smoky mountains. That ain't happening any more. The state of Georgia has cut off our water and any future sand. Our beaches are moving west and will disappear. It is happening very fast without storms. Were you here in 2005? A couple of years like that and your beach will look like Carabelle.
The entire wet sand/dry sand wordage is ridiculous. Whoever came up with that needs to be made to read the entire 177 Chapter of Florida Statues over and over again. As I said before, the county has recently purchased beachfront parcels and I am sure they were required to get that "legal description" of that property. I even said that the TDC could fund surveys on ALL public accesses and use those as a general sight line (since you can just about see from one to the next)for the SO to be able to tell (approximately) where the MHWL is. It would be alot better than NO ONE having any idea where it is. As for the signage on the beaches goes none of the signs that are posted are compliant with the wording of those pesky Florida statutes on property posting. The statute (810.09) those signs cite that deal with Burglary and Trespass clearly state...
" 2.a. Conspicuous no trespassing notice is painted on trees or posts on the property, provided that the notice is:
(I) Painted in an international orange color and displaying the stenciled words “No Trespassing” in letters no less than 2 inches high and 1 inch wide either vertically or horizontally;"
" 2.a. Conspicuous no trespassing notice is painted on trees or posts on the property, provided that the notice is:
(I) Painted in an international orange color and displaying the stenciled words “No Trespassing” in letters no less than 2 inches high and 1 inch wide either vertically or horizontally;"
Teresa, you have good intentions. I don't think you understand the Constitution or the law. [Comments in brackets]
Not all property owners who happen to own a Gulf front home claim to own the actual beach or wish to keep the sandy beach private for their own use. [Good for those owners. They have the right to give permission to anyone they choose to access or occupy their property.] The Gulf front home owners I know and have talked to or heard from are also people who appreciate customary use [I probably know more beachfront owners than you and I'd estimate that's a small percentage of the 900+ parcel owners who Walton pay property taxes but that is their right as well. ] of our beaches in South Walton FL. They are not interested in signs or calling the Sheriff [Nor are most property owners - IF our property rights are respected].
Gulf front homeowners ... Who love this place who stand for customary use of our beaches. Because they stand for our community. Period. [Because you believe it does not mean you are correct. Because a beachfront owner does not "stand for customary use" does not mean they don't stand for "our community" as you imply. They stand for the Constitution and Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness under the rule of law that protects minorities from mob rule.]
But there are those who claim private rights to the beach and so here we are. It will be resolved. [Alternatively, there are those who claim property rights to the private beach they do NOT have without consideration for the Constitution or due process ... and here we are.]
All those who have an investment in the community want what's best for our beaches. They are worth preserving. [All those that have an investment in the property they paid for and pay taxes on to the MHWL want what's best for their beaches and all beaches as well. Constitutional rights are worth preserving.]
Sheriff officers will be placed in the middle of trying to keep the peace on certain beaches. Because Walton County has been singled out and targeted by a law. [Because Walton politicians declared by police power that private property rights were invalid WITHOUT due process FIRST. No other county has done that and the FL legislature had to correct Walton's, and any other county, failure to property owner Constitutional due process BEFORE taking property rights they have today.] The governor's EO makes no sense. Why would he need to issue an order to keep public beach accesses open to the public? This was never an issue. [Agree. Except as a political maneuver. Have you read the EO? What does the EO say about what beaches the Governor is assuring access to? All beaches? The beach? Private beaches? PUBLIC beaches?]
No one expected to have access to Beach access taken away. It isn't a partisan thing in many minds. It is a threat to our community and our way of life - as locals, visitors, business owners, homeowners, and families who choose to be here because of the natural beauty that surrounds South Walton. [You can thank the Walton commissioners and the TDC for creating the myth and expectation over the decades that 75% of Walton beaches are not private beaches that property owners graciously shared with the public until the demand exceed the public beach supply and the "hooligans" (Sheriff's word) abused property owner's right to private enjoyment of their property by the tourist and locals abuse of that grace. If you use private beachfront property - you can not be disrespectful to the owner, relieve yourself there or in the water, get drunk and disorderly, smoke, have unsupervised children, dogs, setup tents, ...]
Every inch of our beaches deserves to be held in preserve. To keep them clean, beautiful, and safe (vendor free would be a great goal too) so that they remain accessible to all of us. [Then you buy the property at fair market value and do with it how you wish. Until then respect the Constitutional property rights owners have had and have today.]
Keep our beaches pristine. Let us educate our visitors on wildlife, leave no trace, and enforce beach rules and safety. Let's work to keep [public] beaches everywhere open for everyone to enjoy [and respect private property rights]. Always.
Not all property owners who happen to own a Gulf front home claim to own the actual beach or wish to keep the sandy beach private for their own use. [Good for those owners. They have the right to give permission to anyone they choose to access or occupy their property.] The Gulf front home owners I know and have talked to or heard from are also people who appreciate customary use [I probably know more beachfront owners than you and I'd estimate that's a small percentage of the 900+ parcel owners who Walton pay property taxes but that is their right as well. ] of our beaches in South Walton FL. They are not interested in signs or calling the Sheriff [Nor are most property owners - IF our property rights are respected].
Gulf front homeowners ... Who love this place who stand for customary use of our beaches. Because they stand for our community. Period. [Because you believe it does not mean you are correct. Because a beachfront owner does not "stand for customary use" does not mean they don't stand for "our community" as you imply. They stand for the Constitution and Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness under the rule of law that protects minorities from mob rule.]
But there are those who claim private rights to the beach and so here we are. It will be resolved. [Alternatively, there are those who claim property rights to the private beach they do NOT have without consideration for the Constitution or due process ... and here we are.]
All those who have an investment in the community want what's best for our beaches. They are worth preserving. [All those that have an investment in the property they paid for and pay taxes on to the MHWL want what's best for their beaches and all beaches as well. Constitutional rights are worth preserving.]
Sheriff officers will be placed in the middle of trying to keep the peace on certain beaches. Because Walton County has been singled out and targeted by a law. [Because Walton politicians declared by police power that private property rights were invalid WITHOUT due process FIRST. No other county has done that and the FL legislature had to correct Walton's, and any other county, failure to property owner Constitutional due process BEFORE taking property rights they have today.] The governor's EO makes no sense. Why would he need to issue an order to keep public beach accesses open to the public? This was never an issue. [Agree. Except as a political maneuver. Have you read the EO? What does the EO say about what beaches the Governor is assuring access to? All beaches? The beach? Private beaches? PUBLIC beaches?]
No one expected to have access to Beach access taken away. It isn't a partisan thing in many minds. It is a threat to our community and our way of life - as locals, visitors, business owners, homeowners, and families who choose to be here because of the natural beauty that surrounds South Walton. [You can thank the Walton commissioners and the TDC for creating the myth and expectation over the decades that 75% of Walton beaches are not private beaches that property owners graciously shared with the public until the demand exceed the public beach supply and the "hooligans" (Sheriff's word) abused property owner's right to private enjoyment of their property by the tourist and locals abuse of that grace. If you use private beachfront property - you can not be disrespectful to the owner, relieve yourself there or in the water, get drunk and disorderly, smoke, have unsupervised children, dogs, setup tents, ...]
Every inch of our beaches deserves to be held in preserve. To keep them clean, beautiful, and safe (vendor free would be a great goal too) so that they remain accessible to all of us. [Then you buy the property at fair market value and do with it how you wish. Until then respect the Constitutional property rights owners have had and have today.]
Keep our beaches pristine. Let us educate our visitors on wildlife, leave no trace, and enforce beach rules and safety. Let's work to keep [public] beaches everywhere open for everyone to enjoy [and respect private property rights]. Always.
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Prove it. Don't give opinions. Lets see facts. Look at the photos from the 1940's and show how the 26 miles of shore line are different from today's shore line.
Were you here in 1975 when Eloise went through? Our beach shoreline property has recovered within a few years each time. Dunes have recovered well with sand fencing too. Now if I can just keep the ignorant tourist and disrespectful locals off the dunes.
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Read statue 810.011. Only applies to property greater than 5 acres or without a residential dwelling on it.
The shoreline in the western end of SoWal where renourishment was done looks the same as it did 50 years ago. But anywhere else, especially areas like Blue Mountain Beach and many other areas are nearly gone compared to the past. Don't you own a townhouse in BMB that became uninhabitable because it almost crumbled into the Gulf?
Alys Beach early plan before 2005 had beachfront setbacks pretty narrow. 2005 happened and they moved all the construction back. They made less money but saw what a disaster it would have been to allow building too close to the water like 90% of other beachfront development in SoWal. Did you see the homes and condos falling on to the beach in 2005? There are photos on this site.
Every storms since 2005 (all have luckily just brushed by) have waves hitting the toe of the dunes. Just watch the beachcams. Only an idiot would deny that the next big storm is going to destroy the dunes and most of the homes on them. I've seen tons of pictures on this site that make it clear. Just search and see and compare to Google earth today. It ain't hard to see if your head is not buried in the sand.
