The Pope and the Condom

[Bob]

why does religion conflict with science??? it is a continual "problem" for papacy incorporated.

 

[Geo]

The last 7 words of the article make a nice slogan for the church-

inspiration beyond the science of the matter.

 

[hnooe]

why does religion conflict with science??? it is a continual "problem" for papacy incorporated.

God is not a control freak, but the Pope is.:angry:

 

[WhoDat1]

There is abuse in all sectors of society. A few bad priests, like a few bad cops, give all of them a bad name. Catholic bashing should NOT be tolerated anymore than racism on this site.

I once considered the priesthood. Celebacy had nothing to do with me not answering this vocation. I simply chose law enforcement to combat evil instead. Clerical celibacy is not a universal requirement. There ARE rites in the Catholic Church that allow married clergy. Your statements are not only ignorant but hurtful. To Catholics AND homosexuals.

And, by the way, homosexual men ARE NOT pedophiles. Those are two DIFFERENT things. This is a crime of dominance and power. PREDATORS have found a place to hide in the LATIN rite of the Catholic Church, not homosexuals. Pope Paul IV made the statment that the smoke of Satan has infiltrated the Church. He was right. But this smoke was not homosexuals (there ARE GOOD homosexual priests!) it was PREDATORS and the destruction of the Latin Mass by Vatican II.

You want to talk about dogma, the destruction of the Church by predators or even the lack of scriptural basis for clerical celibacy, fine. You group my priests and my Church into a evil generalization and you and me need to meet in the school yard after class.

 

[scooterbug44]

Condoms only prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS when they are used properly and every time - not usually the case in Africa. The poor treatment/standing of women makes it difficult for them to insist on it (when they have access to them), and when your leaders are publicly stating that a good shower after sex w/ a prostitute keeps you from catching AIDS, your family is starving, and your daughter is being circumcised w/ a rusty razor ............... the philosophy of abstinence vs. condoms is the least of the issue. Not to mention there is the minor issue of being able to get medical treatment and medicine.

Yes, Pope Benedict advocates abstinence outside of marriage - and as far as I know he practices what he preaches and hasn't been accused of molesting kids. That's not just a Catholic view - due to pressure from conservatives, Bush made billions in aid only available to abstinence only programs in Africa.

Yes, the Pope said that condoms are not the solution to the African AIDS epidemic. I agree with that - not because I think they are ineffective, but because they are just a small part of the solution to a MASSIVE problem.

 

[woodworker]

What I am about to say has gotten me thrown out of family members' homes. So I expect some heat here.

The reason the pope preaches abstinence is because he (as a priest) believes it is natural for people to sexually repress themselves (as priests have chosen to do).

[Here comes the part where I get asked to leave]

I believe that a signficant number of priests became priests because they realized they were gay during a time (the 50's and 60's) when homosexuality wasn't accepted, during a time when the nuclear family actually believed it was (gasp!) mortal sin.

I believe these men felt shame for who they were and seeked religion to save them from this evil/fix themselves and also- the priesthood was a place to hide where they wouldn't be questioned as to why they don't have girlfriends or wives.

[ready for more?]

Furthermore, I believe this is why sexual molestation is rampant among clergy. We have a group of sexually repressed middle aged gay men living together immersed in a culture with no use for women surrounded by trusting boys (no need for altar girls, nuns are second class citizens).

This went on for half a century (much longer actually if we work backwards) until society and the media became willing and able to hear and believe the stories of the abused and young gay men realized they no longer need to repress themselves and join the priesthood (instead they can come out and live fulfilling lives being themselves).

Long story short- abstinence and sexual repression is a bad idea and does not work.

Oh boy. Here I go. Getting ready to hit the Post button.

Jeez Geo - what exactly happened to you in that Catholic school?

 

[Bob]

condom promoters vs. the catholic church....texas death match! who will win? who will die? who has the money, and why?

 

[Geo]

Jeez Geo - what exactly happened to you in that Catholic school?

I fared just fine. But some good friends of mine- not so much...

 

[Bob]

There is abuse in all sectors of society. A few bad priests, like a few bad cops, give all of them a bad name. Catholic bashing should NOT be tolerated anymore than racism on this site.

I once considered the priesthood. Celebacy had nothing to do with me not answering this vocation. I simply chose law enforcement to combat evil instead. Clerical celibacy is not a universal requirement. There ARE rites in the Catholic Church that allow married clergy. Your statements are not only ignorant but hurtful. To Catholics AND homosexuals.

And, by the way, homosexual men ARE NOT pedophiles. Those are two DIFFERENT things. This is a crime of dominance and power. PREDATORS have found a place to hide in the LATIN rite of the Catholic Church, not homosexuals. Pope Paul IV made the statment that the smoke of Satan has infiltrated the Church. He was right. But this smoke was not homosexuals (there ARE GOOD homosexual priests!) it was PREDATORS and the destruction of the Latin Mass by Vatican II.

You want to talk about dogma, the destruction of the Church by predators or even the lack of scriptural basis for clerical celibacy, fine. You group my priests and my Church into a evil generalization and you and me need to meet in the school yard after class.

define "a few" please. how do you compare "racism" with the most powerful christian church in the world?

 

[Geo]

There is abuse in all sectors of society. A few bad priests, like a few bad cops, give all of them a bad name. Catholic bashing should NOT be tolerated anymore than racism on this site.

I once considered the priesthood. Celebacy had nothing to do with me not answering this vocation. I simply chose law enforcement to combat evil instead. Clerical celibacy is not a universal requirement. There ARE rites in the Catholic Church that allow married clergy. Your statements are not only ignorant but hurtful. To Catholics AND homosexuals.

And, by the way, homosexual men ARE NOT pedophiles. Those are two DIFFERENT things. This is a crime of dominance and power. PREDATORS have found a place to hide in the LATIN rite of the Catholic Church, not homosexuals. Pope Paul IV made the statment that the smoke of Satan has infiltrated the Church. He was right. But this smoke was not homosexuals (there ARE GOOD homosexual priests!) it was PREDATORS and the destruction of the Latin Mass by Vatican II.

You want to talk about dogma, the destruction of the Church by predators or even the lack of scriptural basis for clerical celibacy, fine. You group my priests and my Church into a evil generalization and you and me need to meet in the school yard after class.

I presume you are addressing me.

I was baptized and raised catholic, 12 years of catholic schooling, catholic youth camp every summer, I know the mass by heart, most of my family are still practicing catholics. I have friends who are priests (and friends who have been molested by priests). Anyway- I say this only to point one thing out to you-

In my post that offended you, I was speaking of *my* church and *my* priests. You don't hold exclusive speaking rights on catholicism because you are a satisfied customer.

You are being emotional which is causing you to read my words as a generalization. After you have cooled off go back and reread my post. It started with-

"I believe that a signficiant number of priests"...

I didn't say, "All", "Most", etc. and I definitely didn't say explicitly or implicitly that I believe homosexuals are pedophiles.

My post was about sexual repression.

The Political forum is a place for adults to exchange ideas. My ideas expressed here aren't off the cuff. These are long thought out conclusions based on my life experiences.

If you are so bothered by my post that you feel the need to resort to threatening me with violence ("meet me in the schoolyard after class") then maybe this forum (or at least this subject) isn't for you or you need a little break.

I stand by my post.