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mf

Banned
May 14, 2006
208
0
here's some info from a great study done at harvard about how the media perpetuated propaganda in support of terrorists and how that bias affects americans and their lack of understanding about what really happens in the world.

i can assure you. it's middle-eastern people who are not facist that are horrified at how americans are not standing up to terrorism because they don't want to hurt "arabs". out of their racist viewpoint, they turn it into a race issue. the same way they have done with illegal immigration. moderate arabs and arabs who support democracy realize that it's actually racism that prevents most americans from standing up to extremist islamists. they recognize the patronizing racist view required to support this kind of action.

seriously, try to break out of your american-centric view and see the issues in a non-racist, non-bigoted manner. look at the facts. pretend that someone in your all-white neighborhood is engaging the world audience in the same fashion and then judge whether you find it violent, unjust or criminal. but all middle easterners ask is that you stop accomodating terrorism, intolerance and hate speech because of your white guilt. it's truly racist and horrible.



Hassan-Nasrallah-4-2.jpg
Back at the beginning of March 2007, HonestReporting's Backspin blog drew attention to a research paper published by Harvard University, which examined media coverage of the 2006 Lebanon War. The conclusion: Hezbollah succeeded at using the media as a weapon against Israel. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the mainstream media, having allowed themselves to be cynically manipulated by the Hezbollah propaganda machine, failed to report the findings of the Harvard study.
While the initial lack of publicity was disappointing, a number of blogs have recently revisited the study, generating a surge in internet-led interest. This prompted the Jerusalem Post to report:

"An open society, Israel, is victimized by its own openness," Marvin Kalb and Dr. Carol Saivetz of the Shorenstein Center of Harvard University concluded in their research paper, "The Israeli-Hezbollah War of 2006: The Media as a Weapon in Asymmetrical Conflict." "A closed sect, Hizbullah, can retain almost total control of the daily message of journalism and propaganda," manipulating its image to the world, the February 28 paper found.
"In strictly military terms, Israel did not lose to Hizbullah in this war, but it clearly did not win. In the war of information, news and propaganda, the battlefield central to Hizbullah's strategy, Israel lost this war," Kalb and Saivetz concluded.
Hizbullah was able to exploit skillfully the technological innovations wrought by the internet and the demands of the 24/7 news cycle, and constructed the narrative story line for the "first really 'live' war in history" where "the camera and the computer" were "weapons of war," they argued.
For Hizbullah, the Second Lebanon War was a "crucial battle in a broader, ongoing war, linking religious fundamentalism to Arab nationalism." Its chosen field of battle was the media and its strategic aim was to win the hearts and minds of the Arab world. Citing US and Australian military experts, Kalb and Saivetz stated Hizbullah believed the "historic struggle between Western modernity and Islamic fundamentalism will ultimately be resolved" on the "information battlefield." Hizbullah's media strategy was crafted to achieve this end, they said.

In the Second Lebanon War, Hizbullah limited access to Western reporters, "orchestrated" events and manipulated journalists with threats of expulsion if they violated its reporting rules. And the press largely complied with the restrictions that were "reminiscent of the Soviet era," Kalb and Saivetz found.
In one example cited by the paper, on a tour of a Shi'ite neighborhood of Beirut damaged by IAF air strikes, Hizbullah warned reporters not to "wander off on their own or speak to residents" and to photograph only approved sights. If the press violated these rules, "cameras would be confiscated, film or tape destroyed, and offending reporters would never be allowed access to Hizbullah officials or Hizbullah-controlled areas."
CNNCooper.jpg
"At one point, apparently on cue, a Hizbullah minder signaled for ambulances to rev up their engines, set off their sirens and drive noisily down the street. The scene was orchestrated, designed to provide a photo op, and reporters went along for the ride." "So far as we know" Kalb and Saivetz stated, all of the reporters on the tour only CNN's Anderson Cooper reported on the "attempt to create and control a story." The rest of the press "followed the Hizbullah script." (You'll note Cooper's coverage was very different from other reporters on CNN.)
Read the full JPost article here. The full Harvard publication (in pdf format) can be found on HonestReporting's Media Bias Research page.
HonestReporting addressed many of the mainstream media's failings during the Lebanon War, including doctored photography, the reporting of staged incidents as fact, and biased or inaccurate journalism. This comprehensive Harvard publication should be read by all media organizations that value high journalistic standards.
 

mf

Banned
May 14, 2006
208
0
P.S. if any of you have actually read the quran, you would be truly horrified by how the terrorist and facist islamacists are using this religion to oppress and terrorize others.
 

rancid

Beach Fanatic
Aug 9, 2006
270
68
um yeah..that's it :)

honestly, i'm so shocked by the narrowmindedness of some of these answers i don't know how to respond.

i agree with alqueda in that it is quite easy to get americans fixated on themselves in these issues. they really do believe it's all about them. and all about their approach racism or diversity and it really has nothing to do with facist islamicists or their mission.

it's an incredibly patronizing view of the rest of the world.

i think that for some people like rancid who OBSESS on differences because they live and work and exist in such a homogoneous world they kind of only know a shopping mall version of multiculturalism. so i understand that somebody like that would critique my perception because someone like me, who has worked with NGOs and lived in other countries and has a family made up of people from other nations is just so foriegn to him.

you have an idea in your head of what it means to be tolerant of others, but you have never bothered listening to or living with others. the way you speak to me is proof of that. i would encourage you to try to look beyond your americanized view of the world.

ironically, it's VERY difficult for many americans to understand how much people from other country's admire and like america and it's way of life. AND the fact that they are free to criticize it :) unlike the situations in their own countries.

i truly believe that for many uneducated americans or propagandized americans, they believe to hate themselves and their country is the equivalent of being tolerant and understanding of others. it's so sad and such a xenophobic viewpoint.

Oh, you could not be more wrong about me. My background is much more international than you could imagine. Interesting how you extrapolated such a wrong headed observation from my posts. It only further cements my opinion that you are very naive.
 

rancid

Beach Fanatic
Aug 9, 2006
270
68
An educational exercise for MF and 6thGen: Take your list of ranting posts, substitute Christian for every time you said Muslim, America for each time you wrote Middle East, and then reread your posts.

You will find that your posts would sound exactly the same as the rantings of "Islamo-Fascists" (or whatever media term you are using).
If you two were in the other shoes and were living in Iraq, you would be leading some suicide bomber or death squad group.
 

mf

Banned
May 14, 2006
208
0
30Gay,
First, I agree that fundamental religion is the problem. However, there is nothing in the Bible that supports what Rev. Fred Phelps stated. The wages of sin is death. However, the death that is being spoken of is in the eternal sense, not death by stoning. The world is full of folks who use the Bible to further their own means, but it does not make their distortions true. I'm not as familiar with Judaism, but I'll bet that the stonings of homosexuals in the name of Allah are far more recent and far more in number than any in Yahweh's.

As for the most violent statement, I thought that was a bit obvious hyperbole. Again, I'm not the one that started the Muslim bashing, I'm quoting a Muslim reformer, who I admire. I wish there were more Muslims like him.

Judaism and it's religious laws and courts are the predecessor for our own country's legal system. In Jewish law, the Sandedrin - the predecessor for our Supreme Court - was allowed to sentence someone who broke the law to a capital punishment, though while it was legal to punish someone by death, if I recall correctly, in ancient times, any judge in the Jewish system who does so is required to be called "murderous" by society and makes any decision on such a severe punishment with that knowledge.

Now I'm talking about the Sanhedrin of ancient times! it's important to remember that we are now in modern times, and Jewish law, as it's religion, and society and punishments have evolved and like most people of our times are obviously less barbaric than say the people's of 6AD.

Bear in mind, the law is a very different thing in Judaism, they invented the concept of arguing the validity, compassion and justness of a law is up for discussion and debate. It is part of the religion to debate the 613 commandments or religious laws and how they should be implemented or adapted depending on rabbi, etc.

Islam does not encourage debate or discussion and is very heterosexual (although it is considered culturally ok for men to have homosexual sex, so long as they keep it private and marry) male-dominated and authoritarian.

Just like Christianity, there are a number of denominations of Judaism and one can be extremely different from the next. Just like Christianity, while some denominations have homosexual rabbis, others consider it against Jewish law. But no criminal or capital punishment is advised or would be tolerated against a homosexual by any denomination of the Jewish faith.

It's important to note that in Jewish law the primary concern is to value life. For instance, today, Israel's military must comply with Jewish law, and thereby has a number of constraints and issues by which they are not allowed to harm another. While it is considered in compliance with the law to defend oneself the parameters for harming another under those auspices are much different than our own.
 

30gAy

Beach Fanatic
Jul 4, 2006
417
0
The greater SoWal metro area
30Gay,
First, I agree that fundamental religion is the problem. However, there is nothing in the Bible that supports what Rev. Fred Phelps stated. The wages of sin is death. However, the death that is being spoken of is in the eternal sense, not death by stoning. The world is full of folks who use the Bible to further their own means, but it does not make their distortions true. I'm not as familiar with Judaism, but I'll bet that the stonings of homosexuals in the name of Allah are far more recent and far more in number than any in Yahweh's.

Then why didn't you name this thread "The Trouble with Extremist Religion"?

Certain people of ALL religions mis-use and re-interpret their messages to justify horrible actions. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus you name it.

What I so strongly disagree with in this thread is the flipant demonizing of only one group.

How are you ever going to empower and begin a dialogue with progressive elements in Islam when you demonize the entire group so casually?

And how many of your criticisms are based on a comparison of secular, economically advanced democratic nations as compared to religiously oriented, third world countries?
 

mf

Banned
May 14, 2006
208
0
An educational exercise for MF and 6thGen: Take your list of ranting posts, substitute Christian for every time you said Muslim, America for each time you wrote Middle East, and then reread your posts.

You will find that your posts would sound exactly the same as the rantings of "Islamo-Fascists" (or whatever media term you are using).
If you two were in the other shoes and were living in Iraq, you would be leading some suicide bomber or death squad group.

since i have never even hit or touched another human being in anger, even in sport, i seriously doubt that would be me.

the fact that you keep coming back with insults instead of information suggests that perhaps it is you with anger issue. a little self-reflection might be in order for you before you go on the attack again.

also, the middle east is not a one people or one way of life. much like america. so if you ever have the chance to meet someone outside of your white suburban neighborhood, please try and remember that, as much of what you say is very racially and culturally offensive to some.
 

6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
6thgen, was that really called for? name calling and personal attacks?


"There are people who can see , accept, and understand differences in others and those that cannot. MF and 6thgen cannot."

He also said that I'm about to lead a suicide death squad, someone else compared me to McVeigh. I don't take him seriously, because I think he's dumber than a sack of hammers. Bob told someone to take me overseas with a roll of ductape and you don't hear me whining about that. If we want to upgrade the level of discourse you should start with some other folks. "Jackass" is pretty harmless.
 
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