The Trouble with Islam

[Smiling JOe]

An educational exercise for MF and 6thGen: Take your list of ranting posts, substitute Christian for every time you said Muslim, America for each time you wrote Middle East, and then reread your posts.

You will find that your posts would sound exactly the same as the rantings of "Islamo-Fascists" (or whatever media term you are using).
If you two were in the other shoes and were living in Iraq, you would be leading some suicide bomber or death squad group.

:scratch:Interesting. If you do that, you basically get the message, "kill the Christian Extemists." Scary thought.

 

[mf]

Then why didn't you name this thread "The Trouble with Extremist Religion"?

Certain people of ALL religions mis-use and re-interpret their messages to justify horrible actions. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus you name it.

What I so strongly disagree with in this thread is the flipant demonizing of only one group.

How are you ever going to empower and begin a dialogue with progressive elements in Islam when you demonize the entire group so casually?

And how many of your criticisms are based on a comparison of secular, economically advanced democratic nations as compared to religiously oriented, third world countries?

very good point. consider what freedom OF religion does to a nation vs. freedom FROM religion. nations that inhibit religion are generally facist and 3rd world. most conflicts come from inhibiting religion. what i saw in bosnia was a tragic case of facists insisting on eliminating and "cleansing" cultural differences. when you can learn to celebrate people's differences instead of condemn them, then you will be closer to understanding what brings peace.

i think that it is your right to dislike religion and not practice any religion. i don't believe it is people's right to insist on the elimination of other's religions. that is completely anti-thetical to honoring basic human rights and an intolerance that leads us in the direction of oppression and war.

 

[mf]

:scratch:Interesting. If you do that, you basically get the message, "kill the Christian Extemists." Scary thought.

really? in which post of mine do you find such language?

 

[6thGen]

Then why didn't you name this thread "The Trouble with Extremist Religion"?

Certain people of ALL religions mis-use and re-interpret their messages to justify horrible actions. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus you name it.

What I so strongly disagree with in this thread is the flipant demonizing of only one group.

How are you ever going to empower and begin a dialogue with progressive elements in Islam when you demonize the entire group so casually?

And how many of your criticisms are based on a comparison of secular, economically advanced democratic nations as compared to religiously oriented, third world countries?

Uh, that was the title of the article. Same reason the other was "The U.S. War, Five Years On".

I'd be happy to address economically advanced countries. However, economically advanced countries are not overtly threatening our life and liberty, so I thought I should get to this first.

 

[6thGen]

An educational exercise for MF and 6thGen: Take your list of ranting posts, substitute Christian for every time you said Muslim, America for each time you wrote Middle East, and then reread your posts.

You will find that your posts would sound exactly the same as the rantings of "Islamo-Fascists" (or whatever media term you are using).
If you two were in the other shoes and were living in Iraq, you would be leading some suicide bomber or death squad group.

As an exercise, why don't you do that to something I've posted?

 

[Smiling JOe]

... It is part of the religion to debate the 613 commandments or religious laws and how they should be implemented or adapted depending on rabbi, etc.

Islam does not encourage debate or discussion ...

...
From my personal experiences, Christianity does not encourage debate or discussion. Why do you point fingers only at Islam but not at Christians who are similar in that respect?

Just like Christianity, while some denominations have homosexual rabbis, others consider it against Jewish law. ...

Please enlighten us on what denomination of Christianity accept homosexuality amongst its ministers.

 

[Smiling JOe]

really? in which post of mine do you find such language?

So are you not saying that you believe in killing the Islamic Extremists? I'm not reading back through four pages of craziness, but I believe that someone was talking about that, and it is very possible that it is not you, but I didn't use your name specifically.

 

[6thGen]

...
From my personal experiences, Christianity does not encourage debate or discussion. Why do you point fingers only at Islam but not at Christians who are similar in that respect?



Please enlighten us on what denomination of Christianity accept homosexuality amongst its ministers.

I've had very, very different experiences, but it's one anecdote to another. The United Methodist Church, as well as The Episcopalian Church are two off the top of my head. I believe they are wrong, for the same reason I believe that the Church should not have an openly adulterous minister at the pulpit.

 

[mf]

...
From my personal experiences, Christianity does not encourage debate or discussion. Why do you point fingers only at Islam but not at Christians who are similar in that respect?



Please enlighten us on what denomination of Christianity accept homosexuality amongst its ministers.

the prior post was asking about judaism in comparison to islam. christianity was not involved in the question. i based my assessment on both from reading both biblical texts and studying with a rabbi and imam.

as for which christian denominations accept homosexuality among ministers, episcopalians (a major protestant denomination) actually have gay bishops.

 

[Bob]

um yeah..that's it

honestly, i'm so shocked by the narrowmindedness of some of these answers i don't know how to respond.

i agree with alqueda in that it is quite easy to get americans fixated on themselves in these issues. they really do believe it's all about them. and all about their approach racism or diversity and it really has nothing to do with facist islamicists or their mission.

it's an incredibly patronizing view of the rest of the world.

i think that for some people like rancid who OBSESS on differences because they live and work and exist in such a homogoneous world they kind of only know a shopping mall version of multiculturalism. so i understand that somebody like that would critique my perception because someone like me, who has worked with NGOs and lived in other countries and has a family made up of people from other nations is just so foriegn to him.

you have an idea in your head of what it means to be tolerant of others, but you have never bothered listening to or living with others. the way you speak to me is proof of that. i would encourage you to try to look beyond your americanized view of the world.

ironically, it's VERY difficult for many americans to understand how much people from other country's admire and like america and it's way of life. AND the fact that they are free to criticize it unlike the situations in their own countries.

i truly believe that for many uneducated americans or propagandized americans, they believe to hate themselves and their country is the equivalent of being tolerant and understanding of others. it's so sad and such a xenophobic viewpoint.

The ultimate display of patriotism is to criticize one's own malignant behavior. I have traveled the world, I suspect, as much or more than you in the service of my country, and I can tell you, there's more to consider than your obvious hatred of Muslims. Israel will be at war, in my opinion, forever, because of the intractability of both sides. You have multiple citizenships, but choose to live here, because of what reason? The quality of life, freedom, and opportunity is here. You are here for the money available and lifestyle. If you want to try hell on for size, go live in the Middle East. There's more potential for affluence in the Middle East than anywhere on earth because of the availability of oil, yet it is the most consistently violent place because of mutual religious and ethnocentric hatred. Each and every side believes in it's own infallible rectitude, and the result is never ending anger. America is anything but homogenous, and I believe we've come a long way in a short period of time by shedding much of the "my way or the highway" attitude you so freely sling around. You don't have the market cornered on suffering.