Universal Health Coverage

[rapunzel]

I have asked several insurance agents about this plan as I was sort of interested in starting something myself. But I have not been able to find anyone that can really explain how it works to me. I have also questioned both the county and the school district why they do not consider such an offering for employees, but again all I get is blank stares. My family is pretty healthy and I would not mind doing something that allowed me to accumulate wealth that would eventually be mine instead of Blue Cross Blue Shield.

If you find someone versed in this sort of thing, please pass along their contact info.

It is very hard to get information on HCSA's from brokers. Typically, brokers get a big fee per enrollee plus about 1% total annual group premium when they move a book of business, and then about 1% of the total group premium at renewal. The broker has no incentive in cutting the insurance premiums the group will pay by up to 70%.

 

[Bdarg]

I didn't mean for the post to come across as angry, I am certainly not angry. I do, however, believe in debate. If everyone's opinion is equal, then there is no point to discourse. If someone posts a candidates talking points on a forum, I think it's right and fair to respond to those talking points in a thoughtful manner.

Instead of calling me a GEENYUS and saying no one is right all the time, argue with me and show me where I'm wrong. I think it's far more :angry: to attack me than to attack my post.

With all due respect, and I mean all due respect, it's not enough to care, we need to have a deep understanding of the positions we take on the issues.

Your health care post was excellent. It summed up most of troubles from all sides of the health care question. I believe that the issues need to be discussed rather than pointing to planks in a political platform. It is through intelligent and informed debate that we find the legitimacy of the planks and the platform. I know that Hillary's universal health care is up for discussion, with out rereading the entire thread, is there any discussion of a republican health plan?

As for my comments:

I think this is more of an augmentation of your post in that I have a few things that always come to mind when the topic arises.

• Most families are one paycheck away from financial trouble and, it must be added, away from health care coverage. Throw in preexisting problems and the heat really cranks up. With the unsteady employment environment that basically includes us all.

• 
  If single payer universal health care becomes the way of the land, how do we deal with the millions of unemployed insurance workers?

• 
  What we all tend to forget is that the current system has the insured ultimately paying the bill for those who are uninsured. That is the cost of providers giving emergency health care to the uninsured is eventually passed on to the insured through higher premiums.

• 
  Of course there are hundreds of ethical questions that we need to ask ourselves and decide when we talk of health care reform. These are very tough questions too. Such as how do we limit treatment of the seriously ill, or should we limit any treatment no mater what the cost or how minimal the outcome is expected?
  

While I would like to think that a politician could be a strong enough leader to answer the tough questions, I feel that our ability to destroy leaders is stronger; with our society's current gullibility to spin, twist and exaggeration of facts all leaders have an Achilles' heel.


One added note for thought:
Our government is by design, and as so eloquently stated by President Lincoln, is one "of the people, by the people and for the people" , that is, we are the government. With that in mind, do we want to limit or expand it? Do we want an educated and informed government/people, or an ill informed government/people? Lack of education, ambivalence and blind voting are a sure fire way to let our government shrink down to the point where all we have remaining are the politicians.

 

[TreeFrog]

Slightly tangential question - has anyone tried the health care savings account/plan instead of the standard health insurance?

Since I already pay for vision and dental out of pocket, my prescription drugs aren't covered, and I am quite healthy, I am thinking that might be the best way to go.

I've used an HSA for years. One key to whether it will work for you is whether you can accept the mandatory high deductible. If you can...

You can withdraw from your HSA at any time to reimburse your legitimate expenses for non-covered medical expenses. This means, among other things, your deductible, co-pay, or legitimate medical expenses not covered by your policy. There is a limit to what you can contribute to your HSA. I'm self-employed and find the tax benefit useful. Some years I just contribute and then draw right back out, other years I leave it there. If you think of it as an actual "Health Savings Account", the money that accumulates there can be thought of as a cushion to cover the co-pay if you have a truly expensive medical event, like a wreck or major surgery.

 

[seacrestkristi]

I didn't mean for the post to come across as angry, I am certainly not angry. I do, however, believe in debate. If everyone's opinion is equal, then there is no point to discourse. If someone posts a candidates talking points on a forum, I think it's right and fair to respond to those talking points in a thoughtful manner.

Instead of calling me a GEENYUS and saying no one is right all the time, argue with me and show me where I'm wrong. I think it's far more :angry: to attack me than to attack my post.

With all due respect, and I mean all due respect, it's not enough to care, we need to have a deep understanding of the positions we take on the issues.

I apologize. I thought the not bein' thoughtful comment was for me when the page changed, not skunky. When I said the geenyus thang I really meant myself as much as anyone. I really shouldn't joke like that. It really wasn't meant for you. I just tried to read your post and get it but I don't see how repealing HIPPA is going to help so much. It protects our privacy as patients. -Also, when you said , quote~~~Unfortunately, most Americans don't have the attention span to read this post, let alone listen to a politician explain all of this and understand it enough to not be swayed by the barrage of negative PR the various groups who'd be opposed to the proposals would let loose. That is why we end up with solutions that can be explained in a sound bite, backed by inaccurate and contradictory talking points~~~ You lost me here, gull. We're all in it together. It was also the whole feel of the previous, Lala land stuff and GetaBrain poster too. Where is this plagerism he is accusing someone of? I guess I need to find my big girl panties again! Sorry. No personal harm meant, Punzy. You're obviously a sweet and smart lady and a spectacular elf too! Where is that pix?

Also JCHOA(sp?) is for patient protection and safety standards too. I wouldn't want to get rid of them.

 

[Bobby J]

Great post Rapunzel. I always like to hear from folks in the Field on this issue. We did not get here over night and you are right it will take a courageous leader to get us out. My concern about the government fixing the problem is we can look to the past to see the future. The past and government solutions don't look to good on such an important issue...

 

[Smiling JOe]

My brother and SIL recently paid cash for their hospital and doctor costs for childbirth, because it was cheaper than paying the deductible and increased insurance premiums. The bill was about 1/3 of what it would have cost if they had claimed it on insurance. The hospital has to raise the price of everything, hoping to receive a portion back from the insurance company, so they charged only the "true" cost to the cash payers, and saved a bunch of insurance paperwork and time with the money in Accounts receivable in the process. I found this to be very interesting.

The gov't cannot even get my freaking mail delivered to me in a timely and proper fashion, and I sure as hell wouldn't trust them to handle eye surgery or an organ transplant.

 

[Bobby J]

My brother and SIL recently paid cash for their hospital and doctor costs for childbirth, because it was cheaper than paying the deductible and increased insurance premiums. The bill was about 1/3 of what it would have cost if they had claimed it on insurance. The hospital has to raise the price of everything, hoping to receive a portion back from the insurance company, so they charged only the "true" cost to the cash payers, and saved a bunch of insurance paperwork and time with the money in Accounts receivable in the process. I found this to be very interesting.

This is where they could help....

 

[Andy A]

Hey, I spent hours on that post. I think it deserves a more thoughtful response.

It was a wonderful post and certainly right on for the most part, whether you're Liberal or Conservative. Health care is a very complex issue and, while answers to the problem may be diverse, the ones you offered in your summation of the post make a lot of sense. A job well done!

 

[seacrestkristi]

Granted it is a very thoughful post but tell me please, exactly how in the world do you think getting rid of Joint Commission of Accrediting Hospitals and also repealing HIPPA laws are going to help in the long run with the quality of care in relative comparison to cutting costs by hospital administration? It's not worth cutting these very important patient protectors. They were develpoed to protect the consumer, the patient, and our privacy. It makes no sense to me. Being an RN for over 20 years, I don't understand this at all from a patient's advocate point of view. Our hospitals are already understaffed enough without someone undercutting the current standards set by joint commission. They protect patients and nursing staff from unsafe staffing practices and patients from having their medical conditions used against them, eg. getting a job, etc. in order to maintain their quality of life, and privacy. I worked with a nurse, who is still working by the way that before HIPPA got strict would go in to her friend's/enemies' electronic medical records and spread rumors/truths about them. That is just so so wrong. She tried tellin' me 'stuff' one day and I told her :nono1:. I don't wanna hear that sheeet. It's personal. Do unto others, right? I am a goody 2 shoes maybe, in some ways. Once Vandy started getting stricter and enforcing HIPPA, she quit her snooping, I think, I wouldn't know, I got away from that sick environment. :roll: I'm just sayin' to me, getting rid of HIPPA and Joint commission(JCHOA)sp?, would be a terrible step backward for patient's rights.

 

[Jdarg]

Granted it is a very thoughful post but tell me please, exactly how in the world do you think getting rid of Joint Commission of Accrediting Hospitals and also repealing HIPPA laws are going to help in the long run with the quality of care as opposed to cutting costs? It's not worth cutting these very important patient prtectors. They were develpoed to protect the consumer, the patient, and our privacy. It makes no sense to me. Being an RN for over 20 years, I don't understand this at all from a patient's advocate point of view. Our hospitals are already understaffed enough without someone undercutting the current standards set by joint commission. They protect patients and nursing staff from unsafe staffing practices and patients from having their medical conditions used against them, eg. getting a job, etc. in order to maintain their quality of life, and privacy. I worked with a nurse, who is still working by the way that before HIPPA got strict would go in to her friend's/enemies' electronic medical records and spread rumors/truths about them. That is just so so wrong. She tried tellin' me one day and I told her :nono1:. I don't wanna hear that sheeet. It's personal. Do uto others. Once Vandy started getting stricter and enforcing HIPPA, she quit, I think, I wouldn't know, I got away from that sick environment. :roll: I'm just sayin' to me, getting rid of HIPPA and Joint commission(JCHOA)sp?, would be a terrible step backward for patient's rights.

Rapunzel offers sound and viable alternatives to both JCAHO and HIPPA. I fail to see why overhauling both and improving them would be a step backwards for patients' rights. Maybe you only read the first parts of each paragraph?

I quoted these sections.

• Get rid of JCAHO -- the hospital accreditation organization that causes so much inefficiency and ridiculous privacy and staffing rules in the name of insuring quality, which it fails to do. It does make it impossible for hospitals and physician groups to be innovative, and makes start up costs prohibitively high thereby limiting competition. In lieu of JCAHO, open up the National Provider Database or enact laws that will make it possible for Health Grades or some other J.D. Powers for health care to emerge so that consumers have access to information that will make it possible to make to factor quality into health care decisions. This will be opposed by physicians, nurses, large hospital groups, and unions.
• Repeal the Privacy and Security provisions of HIPAA. Replace them with laws that prohibit insurance companies from collecting and selling data about individuals health care utilization to other companies and make it illegal to commoditize individuals' medical records. This will decrease administrative and software costs for providers greatly, resulting in increased competition. It will also give Americans real security and privacy with regards to their medical history. This will be opposed by large hospital groups, health care administrators, medical software companies, insurance companies, and anyone who believes the Privacy and Security provisions of HIPAA have anything to do with privacy or security.