Walton County: Leave no Trace - modified ordinance approved

[DuneLaker]

Again, no people in sight to quickly get this stuff out of harms way. Hope the bears don't get their food stored in the corners. Also, more laundry hanging. You could live on beach like this for a while. Hope they have a building permit or occupancy order. There's more, but I'm stopping here for now.

 

[Matt J]

Don't stop DL, keep posting, perhaps a new blog is in order.

Tent Cities of South Walton

 

[TechPyle]

The trash on the beach is terible, people treat it as a garbage dump but the truth is most of the beach is owned to the mean high water line by individuals. This will be real unpopular but if the material is not on public property how is it any different than me putting a tent up in my back yard? Should this crud be left there NO but it is up to the land owner not the county. I beleave there was a lawsuit about a vollyball net that the county lost already. Again I agree that the crud on the beach is wrong but can or should the county be able to tell you when you can put up a tent in your back yard. If the government can control that then what next? How may cars you can have in your driveway? When you can turn your lights on? Where do the new laws end? I beleave that we are trying to regulate through the government common sense and courtesy. You can not regulate either and it is foolhardy to try. The fact is the people who leave this crud on the beach needed to be taught from thier mommies and daddies that it was wrong but that was not done and now we are stuck with it. To try to regulate what should be taught to a child (How to put up toys and throw away garbage) will not work and will just infringe on others rights.

 

[Kurt]

The trash on the beach is terible, people treat it as a garbage dump but the truth is most of the beach is owned to the mean high water line by individuals. This will be real unpopular but if the material is not on public property how is it any different than me putting a tent up in my back yard? Should this crud be left there NO but it is up to the land owner not the county. I beleave there was a lawsuit about a vollyball net that the county lost already. Again I agree that the crud on the beach is wrong but can or should the county be able to tell you when you can put up a tent in your back yard. If the government can control that then what next? How may cars you can have in your driveway? When you can turn your lights on? Where do the new laws end? I beleave that we are trying to regulate through the government common sense and courtesy. You can not regulate either and it is foolhardy to try. The fact is the people who leave this crud on the beach needed to be taught from thier mommies and daddies that it was wrong but that was not done and now we are stuck with it. To try to regulate what should be taught to a child (How to put up toys and throw away garbage) will not work and will just infringe on others rights.

You make a valid point, except you are forgetting about wildlife protection. You can also argue against wildlife regulations, but personally I'd rather not.

You've hit the heart of the matter though. The issue goes back to the day when some landowners, officials, and surveyors decided they could sell shorelines (kind of like their predecessors introduced land ownership to native Americans). Now we have a mess on our hands as a legacy.

 

[DuneLaker]

A lot, to most, of the junk left on the beach is not left there by the people that own the property. So, probably in many cases it has nothing to do with their property rights. I feel sorry for the property owners who do have this mess left in front of their property. Sometimes, the pathway from the public walkways are almost blocked. These public access and right of ways are 33 feet wide or wider in some cases. I believe the state and county parks can and should enforce that nothing be left on the public beach at night. I doubt that the tents set up in front of a vacant dune lot or two belong to anyone that owns any part of that lot. The ones that I've questioned from time to time didn't. Now, a lot of that sand in front of some of that "private" property was pushed up there with public dollars. Just be nice like a kindergarten student. Enjoy the beach. Take a towel and a chair (or nothing). Take your stuff home at night. Let everyone enjoy the beach.

 

[TechPyle]

DuneLaker,
I am sure most of the junk left in front of houses or vacant lots on the beach is not put thier by the property owners but some is put there by renters usually short term, or by people tresspassing on the property owners land. Then when the property owner gets tired of it and calls the police to remove the tresspasser then everyone gets mad because they can't have free access to the water except at the parks and everyone screams that if people can't get to the water than why would they visit. I imagine that if only the property owners used the area up to the mean high water line and that anyone else was carted off to jail that there would be considerably less junk on the beach. The problem is that people want free use of the beach and don't want any responsability for thier actions.

As to the public parks or other public land anything unattended should be removed.

The sand that was added by TDC dollars is currently in dispute at the Supreme Court Level. My thoughts is that it is public property now but my 2 cents ain't worth a penny.

 

[DuneLaker]

In my opinion, there is a difference to just sitting on the beach for the day or walking about or playing (longtime customary use) versus setting up an encampment for a week or more often on someone else's property (squatting) or on public property not designated for overnight or longterm camping. I'm not sure how the whole "what was once public land is public land in perpetuity" will play out in the courts. The problem with beach use became notable when the whole tent and excess junk became in vogue the last few years. The previous 50 years had people coming to the beach and having a great time. They did not set up tents and did not leave junk on the beach. Whether it was one person or 10,000. this wasn't the norm. Most people are really pretty cool about everyone enjoying the beach and just sitting on a towel or chair for the day. Even a small umbrella they can easily cart back and forth works. Once tents, sometimes quite large, and excess junk started cropping up and being set up for a week or more, and sometimes abandoned, the balance was upset.

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same "sand" provided by public dollars. I'm not a lawyer and don't have a bunch of lobbyists and lawyers at my beck and call to discuss the Supreme Court case. I thought that had more to do with some specific renourishment programs. I'm talking about county and other large machinery that plied the beaches after the 2004 and 2005 hurricane seasons, and later for other reasons, that pushed around tons of sand onto private property. That might be part of the ongoing Supreme Court case. I don't know.

 

[TechPyle]

I remember going to the beach with a small cooler, a blanket, and a bag to hold some snacks, toys, and sunscreen. When we left there was only some flattened sand where the blanket was. I understand your use of the beach but "customary use" is another legal quandry that has not yet played out. If the beach is public than the county has the ability to dictate what can be placed on it but if it is private than the county has no responsability other than to stay off of the private property. As to the graders and other equipment if the county improves private property that does not make it public it just means the county did work on private property which is generally against the law. The scrapping of beaches would be like paving the private drive where it intersects the highway. It would still be a private drive but the county paved it. Again this would be a concern that would have to wind its way through court. It all boils down to what is public property or what is private. The county has limited rights on private property and an individual is tresspassing if they walk, sit, jog, or otherwise use someone elses private property without consent of the property owner. If the property is public then the government can institute rules to control the property.

 

[tsutcli]

Nothing will change this year because there will be no enforcement. There never has been. End of story.

 

[TreeFrog]

Nothing will change this year because there will be no enforcement. There never has been. End of story.

In my short time here (since 2004), I've seen the whole thing develop at exactly the location DuneLaker photographed.

First, we had chair rental companies arrive. They played by the rules and I've got no beef with them. However, they were enterprising souls and got out to the beach much earlier than the vacationers. They set up chairs and umbrellas close to the waterline. The vacationers were stuck with second row spots.

The next move was the vacationers'. Since they didn't want to get up early enough to snag the prime spots from the chair rentals, or maybe they just didn't realize that the chair rentals were actually taken down and stored every night, they just put up their encampments for the week. This really only got momentum in the last year or two.

All we really have to do is enforce the existing system. Tag stuff that's left out overnight. Be nice, and tag it again the next night. If it's still there after two nights, load it up and cart it off.