Welcome to America

[Bob Wells]

Boy, that bit of levity was brief...but seriously, Bob, isn't is just plain logical, if not written in law, that a pardon can only be given to someone convicted of a crime? This pardoning of someone suspected of a crime, some one thinking about a crime, someone who may be thinking about a crime next week, someone who may have done a crime in the last four years... that seems crazy.

You said LOGICAL. Now there is a true conundrum.

 

[PoppaJ]

Boy, that bit of levity was brief...but seriously, Bob, isn't is just plain logical, if not written in law, that a pardon can only be given to someone convicted of a crime? This pardoning of someone suspected of a crime, some one thinking about a crime, someone who may be thinking about a crime next week, someone who may have done a crime in the last four years... that seems crazy.

Also think about the self pardon argument. I have zero training in constitutional law, but common sense would dictate this shouldn’t be possible. A self pardon would place the president above the law. He could spend four years committing any number of crimes knowing there will be no accountability. This is exactly what the current criminal in the oval office believes and these anti-democracy republicans are re-enforcing that belief.

 

[PoppaJ]

After tweeting “This is 1776” Q-Anon nut and proud gun toter Colorado Republican Lauren Boebert tweeted real time movements of the speaker of the house during deadly trump ordered insurrection.

 

[Lake View Too]

I’m getting an error message from Sowal.
Found it. Good for them. Hope every company joins them.

I got that error too. The story is that business companies are going to stop contributing to Trump Liars Club, including Cruz, Hawely, Rick Scott, Matt Gaetz, Marco Rubio... and on and on. The party is over.

 

[Lake View Too]

Also think about the self pardon argument. I have zero training in constitutional law, but common sense would dictate this shouldn’t be possible. A self pardon would place the president above the law. He could spend four years committing any number of crimes knowing there will be no accountability. This is exactly what the current criminal in the oval office believes and these anti-democracy republicans are re-enforcing that belief.

I think that this may be his ultimate extortion card: " I will call off the proud boys if you grant me my Universal Pardon for All Time." I 'm not sure I'm kidding.

 

[PoppaJ]

My favorite line in a movie is from The Renaissance Man when Danny DeVito’s character tells the group of misfits he is charged with educating “The choices you make dictate the lives you lead.” Here is a trumpnazi learning that lesson.

 

[PoppaJ]

After tweeting “This is 1776” Q-Anon nut and proud gun toter Colorado Republican Lauren Boebert tweeted real time movements of the speaker of the house during deadly trump ordered insurrection.

View attachment 87811

Man Armed With Assault Rifle Texted Plans To Shoot Nancy Pelosi, Officials Say | HuffPost

Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr. relayed plans to hurt the House speaker while traveling to attend Wednesday’s pro-Trump rally near the Capitol, authorities said.

 

[Leader of the Banned]

If you read my posts you will find at least some of the answer to your question. I have very personal conversations with Trump supporters so maybe I have insight that you might not have. Of course this is my opinion and we all have one of those

Some are super religious. They fear that liberals are taking God out of everything. I am trying to keep this simple but generally they believe that liberals are mean spirited athiest and trying to take away their faith. They make up about a third of the trump supporter group. There is some truth to their beliefs in terms of mean spirited liberals who use the f bomb in conversations a lot. Many in this group are working class to middle class Americans.

Some are super anti-government. They fear government intrustion into both their private and business lives. They hate paying taxes and believe that government waste too much. This group includes a broad range of economic class from poor to upper middle class and even the wealthiest Americans. I would say that at least half of all Trump supporters are in this group.

Some are super followers of any person with power that seems to support their chaotic drama filled lives. They are thugs, criminals, conspiracist, racist, white supremacist etc. This group is the most vulnerable to radicalization and they range from working class to middle class. Hard to say how many are in this group but based on what happened this past week there are too many of them.

All three groups have factions that are easily radicalized. All three groups are angry beyond what many in this forum probably understand. When/If Trump goes away there will be others like Ted Cruz that steps in to stoke the anger and hatred. There is money to be made in anger and hatred and that seems to be what motivates people like Cruz and Trump and others. The Republican Party recognized this a long time ago and lost their soul along the way. The Democratic Party has room to improve but when they have full power to wield who really knows whether that power will corrupt them as well. Money and Power just seems to corrupt humans. We the people need to be United in terms of electing good people to political office rather than party affiliation whether it be County, State or Federal offices. We need more choice in our elections. The election of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris is a good sign that our Democracy is not over yet...

OK, I need to clarify. My bad. I wasn't talking about the common man, average Joe or Jane. I was talking about the higher ups in our power base. The elected officials, the appointed officials. Why can't they just say "thanks but no thanks"?

 

[Leader of the Banned]

Boy, that bit of levity was brief...but seriously, Bob, isn't is just plain logical, if not written in law, that a pardon can only be given to someone convicted of a crime? This pardoning of someone suspected of a crime, some one thinking about a crime, someone who may be thinking about a crime next week, someone who may have done a crime in the last four years... that seems crazy.

Nope, Nixon was pardoned in advance of commission of a crime.

 

[Leader of the Banned]

Also think about the self pardon argument. I have zero training in constitutional law, but common sense would dictate this shouldn’t be possible. A self pardon would place the president above the law. He could spend four years committing any number of crimes knowing there will be no accountability. This is exactly what the current criminal in the oval office believes and these anti-democracy republicans are re-enforcing that belief.

I believe that the pardon would be legit, but after he leaves office he could be prosecuted for issuing the pardon.