Can American Leadership be Restored?

[6thGen]

That is precisely the reason why your attempt to justify Islamofascism is flawed. There is no adherence to state authority. I said by your definition, the Klan would be considered WASPfascism. I didn?t say this was the correct term to describe the KKK.

There are many *isms or political terms which may be used to more accurately define AlQaeda?s philosophy and my original point, that Bush intentionally used fascism as a way to distort the threat, is valid.

As for the left being the last to criticize the use of fascism or Nazism to invoke fear about one?s opponent; -what ever happened to the politics of reason? Distorting reality is of no benefit to our society, left or right. Whipping up ?fear? or anger is not an appropriate move within a democratic society.

If a threat to our society is real, than a rational response to that threat is all that is required ?minus the cheap political fear or anger mongering.

That?s where you miss. The state authority and the religious authority are one in the same under Islamic law. I believe that fascism most closely describes the ideology, but I see your point on emphasizing the threat. We can argue whether it distorts it until the cows come home. However, I agree with the rest of this post.

On your point on the ?Religious Right?s influence on the administration, I believe the gay marriage get out the vote is the only real issue I can come up with where the RR overreached. Side note ? I?m in the Gingrich camp on the genius of Rove. The RR is correct in pushing for judges to overturn Roe v. Wade, not because I believe that abortion is wrong, which I do, but because I know the Warren Court completely overreached their Constitutional authority on the issue. I think the RR would go one further to outlaw abortion if they did over turn Roe, but you can?t pin that on this administration. I?m against state funding of stem cell research, not because I believe that it is wrong to create life in order to destroy it, but that?s because I?m against state funding of all medical research.

 

[6thGen]

Mango,
A few things, on looking to the past, that?s exactly what the ideology presses towards, so he misses there. Second, I?ve never heard the term used to describe regimes, but you could probably get away with stretching it to the Iranian mullahs. Finally -

?If you doubt that every other British Muslim under the age of 30 is ready to blow himself up for Allah?

Yea, I think it?s closer to one in four.

I?m not married to the term, but I think it has merit, only because of the Qu?ran?s position on union of church and state. I?m all for Timmy?s idea of politics of reason and using labels to scare the public into something. However, I know the brutal reality of militant Islam?s world view is far, far scarier than a six syllable sound bite.

 

[Uncle Timmy]

That?s where you miss. The state authority and the religious authority are one in the same under Islamic law. I believe that fascism most closely describes the ideology,

Then you are refering to Hierocracy or Ecclesiacracy, not Fascism. Again there are many other terms which more accurately describe Al Quaeda's philosophy without having to distort the definition of Fascism.

Fascism was intentionally used for political reasons.

 

[6thGen]

Then you are refering to Hierocracy or Ecclesiacracy, not Fascism. Again there are many other terms which more accurately describe Al Quaeda's philosophy without having to distort the definition of Fascism.

Fascism was intentionally used for political reasons.

No sh*t. Most of politicians words are used for political reasons.

The other terms don't establish the totalitarianism of the Islamist (I've preferred that term for years anyway) movement. Again, I'm not married to the term, I'm just pointing out that it is not without merit. I've heard the argument that the political spectrum is more of a circle than a line, and that the extreme right wing is not so different than the extreme left wing, but I only believe that it is the case in reality, not theory.

 

[Uncle Timmy]

The other terms don't establish the totalitarianism of the Islamist (I've preferred that term for years anyway) movement.

Totalitarianism is a term employed by political scientists, especially those in the field of comparative politics, to describe modern regimes in which the state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private behavior.


Again, there is no STATE here.

There is no fascism here.

There is no threat here which approaches the level of what the US faced against fascism in WWII or the totalitarianism of the Cold War.

So, in conclusion, your quote that "the Islamofascism term pretty much nails the ideology" is dead wrong.

 

[6thGen]

Totalitarianism is a term employed by political scientists, especially those in the field of comparative politics, to describe modern regimes in which the state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private behavior.


Again, there is no STATE here.

There is no fascism here.

There is no threat here which approaches the level of what the US faced against fascism in WWII or the totalitarianism of the Cold War.

So, in conclusion, your quote that "the Islamofascism term pretty much nails the ideology" is dead wrong.

Bloody hell. I might as well argue with a fencepost. I've made my case. You disagree. You've tried to make your case. I disagree. Right now our argument is moving like a scratched record.

 

[Mango]

Fair enough - but here's proof that you don't have to be competent to inflict damage. I'd assume the JFK folks were more competent than mentally retarded children, who killed five in one example sited.

http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=71257

As for the question on publicizing biological weapons, given the fact that a bust would pass through so many hands, I'd guess we would hear about it. You would not be so naive to believe that if a fair number of people were involved in foiling such a plot that the government and media would not be publicizing is, would you? But I get your point.

This is like comparing apple to oranges. Not the same.

Um, ok, based on what I posted, how is the term used out of context? Do I need to remind you to keep the conspiracy theories to a minimum? Like me being a government plant?

I don't need any reminding from you about anything 6thgen, but I believe you just made my point for me about using terms as a means to spread propanganda. ;-)

Excellent post Mango, I think that pretty much wraps up the Islamofascist debate.

and ironic that the post comes when Mahna Mahna is my signature line.
I mean, does anyone know what it really means?, but people remember it and evokes emotion.

I

 

[6thGen]

This is like comparing apple to oranges. Not the same.

You said that breaking up the JFK group didn't count because they are wannabes. I used the mentally retarded suicide bombers as proof that you don't have to be brilliant evil scientists to kill people.

 

[Uncle Timmy]

Bloody hell. I might as well argue with a fencepost. I've made my case. You disagree. You've tried to make your case. I disagree. Right now our argument is moving like a scratched record.

Disagreeing on opinions is perfectly acceptable.

Disagreeing in the face of facts, or reason is not.


Look back over the past 20 or so posts, your argument that ?the term Islamofascism nails the ideology [of Al-Qaeda]? is not defendable. Fascism requires a state. Period. There is no state in Al Qaeda. Period. Debate over.

You aren?t arguing with a fencepost, you are arguing with someone who is determined to move the political discussions in a rational direction.. No matter how persistent your responses are, no matter how determined you are to get the last word ?if the last word isn?t a rational one then it isn?t relevant.

Concede the point and move on to the next one.

 

[Uncle Timmy]

and ironic that the post comes when Mahna Mahna is my signature line.
I mean, does anyone know what it really means?, but people remember it and evokes emotion.

Ok, I had to google it.......(who is it -a Hindu philosopher?)

Wikipedia:

"Mah N? Mah N?" debuted as part of Umiliani's soundtrack for the Italian softcore pornography movie Svezia, Inferno e Paradiso (Sweden, Heaven and Hell) (1968), a pseudo-documentary film about wild sexual activity and other behavior in Sweden ("Mah N? Mah N?" accompanied a scene set in a sauna). A soundtrack album, "Svezia, Inferno e Paradiso" was released in 1968. The movie was also released under the English title Sweden Heaven and Hell.


LOL! And then I got the MUPPET reference...........laughing my mahna mahna off