Gay Marriage - poll added

[Matt J]

See my point in #177, w/r/t ignorance. See my point above w/r/t the rest of the post. Also, I didn't vote in the poll, it's pretty clear where I stand.

Come November could you please continue that train of thought?

 

[Smiling JOe]

The bible also says we are not to judge, that is HIS calling.

(I'm not trying to judge gay peeps and their morality.) I hear this statement fairly often, but I've read the Bible a few times and have yet to read any translation which says that we are not to judge people. I believe I know the passage to which you refer, but if that is the one, the statement is out of context with the Bible. Can you find the passage to which you refer for me? It is my belief that anyone can judge, but he or she should weigh more heavily his or her own self.

 

[Matt J]

(I'm not trying to judge gay peeps and their morality.) I hear this statement fairly often, but I've read the Bible a few times and have yet to read any translation which says that we are not to judge. Can you find that passage for me?

Judge not lest ye be judged. Not sure of the actual book and passage, but it's a pretty good "those in glass houses" statement.

 

[Minnie]

Conservative and liberal Christians interpret the Bible in very different ways. This leads to two distinct and contraditory sets of beliefs within Christianity on just about every conceivable topic, from abortion to sex, even to the role women play in the church. Belief in equal rights for homosexuals and bisexuals is no exception.

Since the two groups approach the Bible with different assumptions about its nature, and look for different content, one can expect that their conclusions will be very different.

Religious liberals promote homosexual ordinations, same-sex marriage, civil union ceremonies in the church, equal protection under hate-crime legislation, protection against discrimination in employment, etc. as fundamental human rights issues.

Religious conservatives feel that the Bible teaches that homosexual behavior is always a serious sin. Allowing sexually active gays and lesbians to be ordained, or to have their committed relationships recognized by the church would involve a drastic and unacceptable lowering of church standards. The church would be condoning sin.

The problem with any discussion about religion is that no one knows for sure if either side is right. And I for one will never judge, it is not my place. I will not judge the conservative nor the liberal. And I do not want my government making these judgements either.

I do know that based on information shared with me from a friend who has a Phd. in Religion from Vanderbilt that there is no biblical text against sexual activity within a loving, committed, monogamous homosexual relationship.

There is text against homosexual activity of a deviant nature, but then so is there text against rape involving men and women, incest, adultry and much more of the deviant sexual nature.

I know that in any discussion of this nature; what does bother me is that some will profess to not judge yet they do. They judge anything different from them, be it the liberal or the conservative or even the hate filled bigot. We can not expect not to be judged, if we ourselves are judging even if it is in the subconcious. We must strive for acceptance of all, even those that are different in their beliefs.


I do know for a fact that I value any human being with a caring, loving, giving heart and soul and that SWGB fits that description in all aspects. He was, while my daughter was living in SoWal, and has been one of the most caring and helpful friends I have ever made and I will cherish his friendship forever.

If that makes me a sinner because I support him and his commitment to a loving partner, I figure I will be in good company and I know that I am a sinner on many counts and I know that my Lord Jesus died on the cross in order for my sins to be forgiven and I pray daily for that. The rest truly does not matter.

 

[kathydwells]

The Gospel according to St. Matthew 7

Judging OthersLk. 6.3738, 4142
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[NoHall]

(I'm not trying to judge gay peeps and their morality.) I hear this statement fairly often, but I've read the Bible a few times and have yet to read any translation which says that we are not to judge people. I believe I know the passage to which you refer, but if that is the one, the statement is out of context with the Bible. Can you find the passage to which you refer for me? It is my belief that anyone can judge, but he or she should weigh more heavily his or her own self.

Judge not lest ye be judged. Not sure of the actual book and passage, but it's a pretty good "those in glass houses" statement.

Matthew 7

I think we're disputing the use of the word "judge." We are to discern what is right and wrong for ourselves, obviously, but Jesus' point in Matthew 7 was similar to the adage about how if you point a finger you'll find 3 pointing back at you. He asks how we can see to remove the speck of dust in our brother's eye when we have a plank in our own. It's similar to the later passage (John 8, I think?) about the woman caught in adultery--those without sin should cast the first stone.

Both are lessons in grace, not lessons in moral imperatives.

 

[seagrovegirl]

Very interesting...I did not know that certain tax excemptions could be revoked because a religion didn't follow the doctrines of our government. Reminds me the era of King Henry the VIII. If the church did not agree with his changes to the bible (so he could divorce his 1st wife) he had the cardinals and bishops poisoned or beheaded. Sounds like blackmail to me. An another note, if a church truly thinks their ways are the way to God, than they can give up their exception and pray for God to provide. Money shouldn't be an issue, especiall the Catholic church.

 

[6thGen]

It's all over the Gospels, but the exact verse cited is Matthew 7:1. Following, which I am completely guilty of here is the verse on casting your pearls before swine. The verse is misinterprited often, as it refers to final judgment, which is not ours to make. To take Matthew 7:1 in context, you need to read what follows, criticizing the spec in your brother's eye while failing to notice the beam in your own. Jesus later taught that for those that refuse to listen, it should be told to the church. In I Corinthians, Paul commands the church to "judge" those within the church and remove the wicked.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Conservative and liberal Christians interpret the Bible in very different ways. This leads to two distinct and contraditory sets of beliefs within Christianity on just about every conceivable topic, from abortion to sex, even to the role women play in the church. Belief in equal rights for homosexuals and bisexuals is no exception....

Maybe the problem is that we give too much weight to the Bible and not enough weight to God. There isn't one conservative God and one liberal God. There is just God. More people would be wise to listen to God, rather than reading the Book.

 

[Minnie]

Maybe the problem is that we give too much weight to the Bible and not enough weight to God. There isn't one conservative God and one liberal God. There is just God. More people would be wise to listen to God, rather than reading the Book.

Exactly.