Get the lead out of yer herbs

[Gidget]

What about cranberry juice for prevention of bladder and urinary tract infections? That's really all I care about. I switched over to Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic for the supposed benefits, and that stuff is awful! I would rather drink that citrusy Blue Moon weasel piss whatever you call it.

My friend's husband was diagnosed with gout. The thing that really got his uric acid levels down was black cherry juice.

 

[Gidget]

Skunky = I might be wrong, but I bet that the label on your Vitamin C simply displaying a company name headquartered in the USA does not specifically mean it was produced in the USA..

Ok Skunky, I told you I would contact the company on my bottle of Vit C. I did.

Here's what I found out from NOW Foods

GMP Certification

The Natural Products Association (formerly NNFA) has recertified NOW? Foods, Bloomingdale, IL as an "A-rated" GMP facility. This follows another rigorous inspection by an independent auditor for the Natural Products Association.


NOW Foods? 250,000 sq. ft. state-of-the-art manufacturing facility with complete Quality Assurance and Quality Control systems and processes has been GMP certified and ?A-rated? by NPA/NNFA since 2000. Today, NPA GMP Certification includes all requirements for the new FDA dietary supplement cGMPs, and more.


NOW?s GMP certification covers standard operating procedures, employee training, product specifications, expiration dating, vendor certifications and much more. Standard operating procedures include sampling and testing incoming materials according to NOW Foods specifications, inspecting manufacturing processes, and testing finished products to specifications. Tests include organoleptic evaluation (human senses such as sight, taste, smell), physical testing of tablets and capsules, chemical identity of ingredients, potency and contamination testing by the company?s in-house state-of-the-art analytical testing lab, as well as microbiological testing by NOW Foods? in-house rapid analysis microbiological lab.


"Our GMP certification by the NPA is a cornerstone of our commitment to quality,? said Michael Lelah, Ph.D., NOW Foods Technical Director. ?As industry leaders in analytical and microbiological testing, we have the technical and professional personnel, lab facilities, standards and procedures to ensure the highest quality products. Our quality commitment also includes continuous improvement programs to get even better."

At NOW foods your concern for safety is our concern for safety. We take countless steps to ensure we select safe ingredients and we follow those ingredients through the manufacturing process to finished packaging, testing each step of the way for contaminants and imperfections. Ensuring safety requires robust and rigorous systems and processes. Our state of the art facility and equipment and our dedicated professional staff work hard to ensure product safety for everyone.
Some examples of the many systems and processes NOW has put in place to ensure product safety.

• We examine the toxicological and safety data for our ingredients when formulating our products. Our scientists work to ensure that products are formulated at safe ingredient levels.
• We work with trusted, high quality raw material suppliers. We determine their commitment to safety and audit all of them to ensure that they too have systems and processes for safety and quality.
• We test all our products and ingredients for adulterants and contaminants. This includes testing for heavy metals, microbiological contamination, cross contamination and for specific allergens and gluten. We test our water and air to insure there is no outside contamination coming in and we test to make sure our equipment is clean and sanitized. Click here to learn about our testing capabilities and expertise.
• Our manufacturing processes follow dietary supplement cGMPs and we are certified by the National Products Association. We use HACCP (Hazard Analysis Contamination Control Point) systems to identify potential hazards and to put in place barriers to prevent them from occurring. These hazards include metals, glass, pests and microbial contamination.
• Our manufacturing control systems are automated. Our electronic MRP (Manufacturing Resource Planning) system is designed to ensure that the correct materials are used in production with measures such as bar codes to double check accuracy. We have many other checks and balances in manufacturing including separate QC inspection processes.
• Our QC inspectors accept or reject raw materials, in-process materials, and finished products, based on meeting specifications. Our QC inspectors work independently from our manufacturing personnel so as to eliminate any conflict of interest.
• NOW products are packaged in containers designed to protect their integrity. We strive to ensure the safety and freshness of all our products through their shelf life.
• We make sure that all necessary cautions and warnings are placed on product labels, and that any allergens are clearly identified. We have a rigorous label approval process designed to best comply with all relevant laws and regulations and we exceed federal requirements for allergen labeling by also including corn and gluten. As an added layer of caution, NOW is a peanut-free processing facility.

We firmly believe that exceptional finished products start with the best quality raw materials. To ensure product quality from start to finish, NOW works with the industry?s most trusted and reputable raw material suppliers, many of whom are GMP and/or Organic Certified. All vendors are thoroughly screened in accordance with our strict Quality Assurance standards, and each is required to submit a detailed certificate of analysis on every lot that is shipped. NOW Quality technicians perform mandatory inspections on all incoming batches of raw materials. Additionally, audits are conducted to ensure that our key raw material suppliers are in compliance with NOW?s demanding quality standards.

​

If an incoming batch of raw material does not meet our quality standards, we have no reservations when it comes to rejecting and returning it. Chondroitin is just one of many examples. In one recent year, we pre-tested 45 batches for potency, identity and potential contamination. Of the 45 batches that we tested throughout the year, only 4 were accepted after meeting our strict quality standards. The other 41 batches were rejected and returned to their suppliers.
The relationships that we have forged over the years are rooted in a collective desire to provide today?s health-seeking consumers with superior health products. With assistance and input from nearly a dozen different departments, we work closely with our raw material providers to ensure product quality from the very start. Strong attention to detail and consistent scrutiny in choosing our raw materials are visible throughout each phase of the manufacturing process. This constant scrutiny is of immeasurable worth when it comes to ensuring that the NOW products on your shelves have been carefully tended to; from the moment they arrive at our facility to the time they are shipped to our customers.


Testing 1-2-3
The role of microbiology in quality control at NOW? Foods is expanding daily to encompass a wide variety of quality and safety issues.
Incoming raw materials and natural food products as well as any supplements formulated and manufactured off site are tested for the presence of undesirable microbes. Materials that do not meet NOW?s stringent specifications are returned to the vendor with an explanation detailing the reason for refusal.
To ensure all products manufactured at NOW remain free of biological contaminants, various sites throughout our manufacturing plant are monitored regularly for the presence of unwanted microbes.
In addition to ensuring quality and safety, NOW?s microbiologists are also directly involved in the formulation of active bacteria products such as probiotics containing acidophilus.
NOW Foods has made substantial investment in the development and staffing of an in-house laboratory to meet ever-increasing demands for accurate product analysis of herbal and nutritional raw materials as well as finished consumer products.
Our expert team of highly qualified scientists and technicians work in tandem to develop new and improved analytical methods with the highest accuracy and precision possible to ensure NOW Foods? products will remain among the best the market has to offer.

To assist in this mission, NOW?s recently renovated and expanded laboratory facilities feature state-of-the-art testing equipment including high performance liquid chromatographs (HPLC), a new Fourier transform infrared spectrophotometer (FTIR) and an ultraviolet/visible spectrometer (UV/VIS). Primary analyses are also performed in house using Gas Chromatography (GC)and Gas Chromatography Mass Spectroscopy (GCMS).
NOW?S analytical chemists are also second to none and widely recognized as being among the industry?s best and most accomplished.

Waiting to back this up with a phone call after holiday

From Skunky: FYI, I tried to call Bayer today (maker of the ubiquitous Flintstones vitamins) to see where the pills are actually made. The company has a New Jersey address. Unfortunately, the customer service line is closed on the weekend and the website did not mention it. I will report back with an update.

BAYER? I wouldn't buy anything or take anything from them if I could help it!

I think we are on the same page about the blanket idea that many do have when it comes to herbs and vitamins and that is that because it is "natural" it is ok.

We have to do our research and START with a fit body by way of good foods and exercise. Then add what is needed after we have all the facts. The article is good skunky but the idea that ALL herbs and supplements are "crap" is just as extreme as saying that all are safe.

(Thank goodness for cut and paste )

G

 

[Gidget]

Oops forgot to add that you might have to rethink antibiotics too skunky

More than 100 antibiotics enable China to establish complete industrial chain

With more than 100 antibiotics in production, China has now taken the lead worldwide in total production volume of antibiotics.

and...

FDA Scrutiny Scant In India, China as Drugs Pour Into U.S. - washingtonpost.com

In India, which has more plants making drugs and drug ingredients for American consumers than any other foreign nation, it conducted a handful.

 

[scooterbug44]

Very interesting to read that - it would appear that Skunky's warning was spot on and that is one of the few companies trying to do the right thing/position themselves for when it all hits the fan.

The example they gave of accepting only 4/45 batches - even from their trusted suppliers - should give everyone pause as to just what is being sold in stores.

I was always told that it was better to get your vitamins from a natural source - like fruits and vegetables - than in pill form. Partly because the pills were so skewed in their doses, partly because they weren't regulated, and partly because it was better to eat right than to pop a pill to make up for bad nutrition.

 

[LuciferSam]

This has NOTHING to do with this thread - so you are telling me that I, who understand and believe in evolution and I, who understand and believe in man's hand in global warming am not scientific because I believe that when if I take an herbal supplement or a vitamin I am building health?

There's a balance here when it comes to herbs and vitamins. Yes, making sure our sources are clean sources is important. And making sure we don't buy into all the hoopla about herbs AND prescribed drugs is important. We must do our research. But to dismiss ALL claims when it comes to herbs and vitamins is wrong.

It has everything to do with this thread. If the shoe fits wear it.

 

[Alicia Leonard]

I've seen Gidget and she is the picture of health. I'll take some of whatever she is taking. She looks and lives in a healther manner than 90 percent of the people I know. Science has its flaws just like everything else and that includes medical science.

I check my sups from consumer labs, because I don't always eat right and I have problems with dairy, so I need calicum if I don't get enough from greens and veggies. During the winter I add Vit D.


To call anyones beliefs crap as a blanket statment is crappy in itself.

 

[LuciferSam]

I've seen Gidget and she is the picture of health. I'll take some of whatever she is taking. She looks and lives in a healther manner than 90 percent of the people I know. Science has its flaws just like everything else and that includes medical science.

I check my sups from consumer labs, because I don't always eat right and I have problems with dairy, so I need calicum if I don't get enough from greens and veggies. During the winter I add Vit D.


To call anyones beliefs crap as a blanket statment is crappy in itself.

I didn't see anybody call anybody's beliefs crap. I saw maybe a slight over-generalization about the vitamin industry. On the other side I see a widespread willingness to accept claims without evidence. It is my sincere opinion that this is not a good thing. Is that crap? I also think that judging a supplement's alleged benefits on the basis of anecdotal evidence rather than controlled experiment is not a good thing and this is bad for society as a whole. I'm grateful that the government is regulating this industry and subjecting the manufactures of these substances to scrutiny. That being said, I think people should be allowed to put into their body whatever they want even it entails ingesting toxic substances for which neither lethal nor effective doses are known.

 

[Alicia Leonard]

I didn't see anybody call anybody's beliefs crap. I saw maybe a slight over-generalization about the vitamin industry. On the other side I see a widespread willingness to accept claims without evidence. It is my sincere opinion that this is not a good thing. Is that crap? I also think that judging a supplement's alleged benefits on the basis of anecdotal evidence rather than controlled experiment is not a good thing and this is bad for society as a whole. I'm grateful that the government is regulating this industry and subjecting the manufactures of these substances to scrutiny. That being said, I think people should be allowed to put into their body whatever they want even it entails ingesting toxic substances for which neither lethal nor effective doses are known.

THIS is what I was responding to, not you on an individual basis.


Gidget posted:
"Yeah, but you said "the herb/vitamin thing is a bunch of crap" - so are you saying herbs are crap or that herbs that are manufactured in loose ways are crap. That's why I wrote that."

Regulation is one thing, banning the industry is another. Many "approved" drugs are pulled over individual incidents when the numbers become overwhelming, not before they come out.

I'd like to see the numbers on herbal related deaths or health food related deaths. Even with the FDA involved, it does not stop people from dying from medications.

"Prescription drug reactions kill more than 100,000 a year

By BRENDA C. COLEMAN

April 15, 1998

Associated Press

CHICAGO ? Bad reactions to prescription and over-the-counter medicines kill more than 100,000 Americans and seriously injure an additional 2.1 million every year ? far more than most people realize, researchers say.

Such reactions, which do not include prescribing errors or drug abuse, rank at least sixth among U.S. causes of death ? behind heart disease, cancer, lung disease, strokes and accidents, says a report based on an analysis of existing studies.

"We're not saying, 'Don't take drugs.' They have wonderful benefits," said Dr. Bruce H. Pomeranz, principal investigator and a neuroscience professor at the University of Toronto.

"But what we're arguing is that there should be increased awareness also of side effects, which until now have not been too well understood."

The harm may range from an allergic reaction to an antibiotic to stomach bleeding from frequent doses of aspirin, Pomeranz said. The study, by Pomeranz and two colleagues at his school, Jason Lazarou and Paul N. Corey, did not explore which medications or illnesses were involved.

The authors analyzed 39 studies of hospital patients from 1966 to 1996. Serious drug reactions affected 6.7 percent of patients overall and fatal drug reactions 0.32 percent, the authors reported in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association.

In the study, serious injury was defined as being hospitalized, having to extend a hospital stay or suffering permanent disability.

The most surprising result was the large number of deaths, the authors said. They found adverse drug reactions ranked between fourth and sixth among leading causes of death, depending on whether they used their most conservative or a more liberal estimate.

In 1994, between 76,000 and 137,000 U.S. hospital patients died, and the "ballpark estimate" is 106,000, Pomeranz said. The low estimate, 76,000 deaths, would put drug reactions sixth. The ballpark estimate would put them fourth, he said.

An additional 1.6 million to 2.6 million patients were seriously injured, with the ballpark estimate 2.1 million, he said.

More than two-thirds of the cases involved reactions outside hospitals rather than in hospitals, the authors reported.

Experts commended the study but disagreed whether the estimates are on target.

Dr. David W. Bates of Partners Healthcare Systems and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston said the estimates may be high. One reason, he said, is that they may overrepresent large medical centers, which treat sicker than average patients, who are more prone to reactions.

"Nonetheless, these data are important, and even if the true incidence of adverse drug reactions is somewhat lower than that reported ... it is still high, and much higher than generally recognized," he said.

Dr. Sidney M. Wolfe, director of the consumer advocacy Public Citizen Health Research Group, said he believes the numbers are on target.

"I've read most of these studies, and they represent large hospitals, small hospitals ... a heterogeneous sample of the kinds of hospitals in this country, and include a whole range," Wolfe said by telephone Tuesday from Washington."

I trust little or nothing from outside this country after the pet food deaths a few years back. I was lucky. I was broke and could not buy my two their regular brand. It saved their lives as some of the cheaper brand werre not contaminated.
__________________

 

[Gidget]

It has everything to do with this thread. If the shoe fits wear it.

You sure are a rude ___! I am truly beginning to see your true colors. FLIP OFF!

 

[Gidget]

Very interesting to read that - it would appear that Skunky's warning was spot on and that is one of the few companies trying to do the right thing/position themselves for when it all hits the fan.

The example they gave of accepting only 4/45 batches - even from their trusted suppliers - should give everyone pause as to just what is being sold in stores.

I was always told that it was better to get your vitamins from a natural source - like fruits and vegetables - than in pill form. Partly because the pills were so skewed in their doses, partly because they weren't regulated, and partly because it was better to eat right than to pop a pill to make up for bad nutrition.

Yes I agree it is most telling! But at the same time, let's look at where a lot of our drugs are being made too - not just vitamins and herbs - not fair to pick on the herbs and supplements and it does appear that regulating hasn't done a whole heck of a lot when it comes to the safety of many FDA approved drugs.

Look, I totally 1000% believe what you say about getting your health from food and exercise - I do that. But for anyone to say that herbs can't have medicinal qualities is just plain wrong. And he said that - plain and simple and dismissed any positive effects as placebo. So I will fight that claim. Sure people go overboard with their trust in vitamins and supplements JUST AS THEY DO with many things - face creams, diet pills (FDA approved ones too), prescription and OTC drugs.

If Skunky had just posted the article that would have been fine, but he challenged the use of any diet supplement and herb as quackery - not just the manufacturing.

What I've learned from this? A lot. First, Lucifer is a jerk and a half and second, that I need to do my homework on the few supplements I take.

G