I do believe we are ALL human beings just being human. I do see some of the flag supporters using inflammatory words, phrases and statements. Just go back and read this thread. You are trying to find the moral high ground for your position but your position requires you to dig up a lot of negative history. You can not just dig up the history that makes your position more moral because those on the other side want stand for it. There is a lot of bad in American History so leave it alone and just vote for removing the flag. I believe we have come a long ways but this issue has the potential to create serious division between us. That would not be good for any of us in this County or this Country. Sign the petition and move on.
Petition to Ban Confederate Flag from Walton County Courthouse
- Thread starter Beauford
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Put your name where your mouth is. You have nothing to fear but fear itself...
Jdarg, I do not excuse or defend anyone who is threatening anyone for what they say. You have a God-given right to say what you want and I will fight to defend it. I swore an oath to defend everyone's rights 31 years ago and though I am retired I still take that oath serious. The tone of the comments from those who wish to remove the flag are often condescending and insulting and that is wrong as well. Some are also arrogant like the "Get used to it." comment in the Daily News. And there is a steady undercurrent that anyone who dares oppose removing the flag is a racist and hater.
As far as "politically correct" "liberal" or "eradicator" which I have used personally, I will say this. This is a political debate and you must identify who you are speaking of. There are people who fit those descriptives and that is who you want to identify the opposition as. Nothing personal towards anyone is intended and if someone was offended, I apologize.
I really regret this entire episode has occurred and wish it had been handled differently. Using the South Carolina tragedy as the excuse was a mistake IMHO because that was certain to offend those who sincerely view the flying of the flag as part of their heritage. A discussion of options and remedies among stakeholders might not have averted this mess and maybe no consensus could have been reached. But not making an effort sure hasn't worked out well and the fault for that lies entirely at the feet of those who brought this up in the first place.
I will say it again, I do not like this. I see both sides and do not see anything positive coming from this debate. This thread is a microcosm of the division and harsh words that are being said by both sides. This is not helping our community and is taking time from addressing present-day problems. There will be nothing to celebrate either way.
As far as "politically correct" "liberal" or "eradicator" which I have used personally, I will say this. This is a political debate and you must identify who you are speaking of. There are people who fit those descriptives and that is who you want to identify the opposition as. Nothing personal towards anyone is intended and if someone was offended, I apologize.
I really regret this entire episode has occurred and wish it had been handled differently. Using the South Carolina tragedy as the excuse was a mistake IMHO because that was certain to offend those who sincerely view the flying of the flag as part of their heritage. A discussion of options and remedies among stakeholders might not have averted this mess and maybe no consensus could have been reached. But not making an effort sure hasn't worked out well and the fault for that lies entirely at the feet of those who brought this up in the first place.
I will say it again, I do not like this. I see both sides and do not see anything positive coming from this debate. This thread is a microcosm of the division and harsh words that are being said by both sides. This is not helping our community and is taking time from addressing present-day problems. There will be nothing to celebrate either way.
From today's DeFuniak Herald-Breeze:
America is besieged by political correctness. From abolishing copyrights (Washington Redskins) to proposing to dig up graves (General Nathan B. Forrest) to proposing to dismantle a work of art (Stone Mountain) the self-appointed thought police are obsessed with removing anything they find offensive. They have made their way to Walton County to demand the removal of the Confederate flag from the Civil War Memorial in DeFuniak Springs.
As usual, the truth is distorted or misrepresented in order to fit their narrative. This is certainly true of the letter from a University of Florida professor recently circulated around the county. Professor Ortiz is the faculty advisor for Students for a Democratic Society, Dream Defenders and CHISPAS UF. These organizations are far-left, radical groups that seek to destroy anything that they do not deem as fitting their vison for America. He is interested in Walton County only as it serves to promote his politics and agenda. While those who support his views on the Confederate flag seek to portray him as an unbiased observer, this is clearly not the case. As the old saying goes, the professor “has a dog in the hunt.”
The flag in question DOES NOT fly over the county courthouse. The flag is part of a memorial to Confederate war dead from Walton County. These individuals fought to protect their families and homes and they served with honor.
The delegation from Walton County voted against secession in 1861. One of the delegates, John Morrison, later donated a portion of the funds used to create the monument. Tragically, one of his sons is listed on the memorial. These facts support the position that the majority of these men fought to protect their homes and families and not to support slavery.
The politically correct crowd places great stock in the fact that the flag was not erected until 1964. They consider this to be the “smoking gun” that the supporters of the flag, then and now, are all racist and favor segregation. The fact is we have no idea why the 1964 commission voted to erect the flag. All are dead so they are not here to explain themselves, so we simply do not know. What we do know is that those same leaders complied with the law by removing the separate public facilities and the school board followed suit.
Slavery and segregation were evil. I cannot imagine anyone who would wish to reinstate these abominations. Those who support the flag seek to honor their heritage and remember and preserve history, not bring back a failed system of oppression. Each of us hopes to achieve a society where a person is judged by the content of their character instead of their ethnic background or the color of their skin.
Professor Ortiz’ version of history paints the Civil War as a list of atrocities and horrific acts on the part of the Southern citizens and soldiers; in reality history is much more complex. Atrocities were committed by both sides. In fact, the North killed far more Southern civilians and destroyed far more private property than did their Southern counterparts. Walton County did not go through the Civil War unscathed. The county seat at Eucheeanna was captured and looted by Union troops under General Asboth in 1864 with devastating results to the citizens of the area. And lest anyone forget, Reconstruction was traumatic for ordinary, poor-working Southerners, white and black. Many were left homeless and fell into a type of servitude as harsh as slavery due to share-cropping and company store operations.
Did individuals suffer under the Confederate flag, both during the war and the years of Jim Crow and segregation? Certainly. The same statement could be said about most symbols and flags around the world. If you remove every symbol or monument that might offend someone or that someone has negative feelings about you would be left with nothing. And no flag would be left except a white flag.
So the central question in this debate is should a symbol that is a source of pride for one group but offends another be displayed on government property? As with history, this is a complex subject and there are no easy answers. I am sure there are those who are offended when they fly into Reagan National Airport as well as those who fly into Kennedy International. There are as many opinions as there are people. In the case of this flag at this monument, what is the correct response? This flag has existed as part of this memorial over 50 years. Other than those who have family connections to those memorialized there and those whose families lived here during that era in history, as well as those who are deeply offended by its existence, most people did not know the flag was even in the courthouse lawn. Many of those who stand in opposition to it now did not know it existed until a group of people with an agenda decided to use the horrific, evil acts of a monster in South Carolina as an excuse to remove all vestiges of anything positive about the Old South and whitewash history into a narrative they approve of.
Removal of the flag would give satisfaction to those in our community who truly feel oppressed or offended by its presence. I would say to them that the un-whitewashed remembrance of what their ancestors suffered as well as segregation and it’s ending is needed and the memorials and flags they wish to remove serve to remind us all of their history as well. At the same time the flag’s removal would hurt and deeply offend those who see the memorial and the flag as a symbol of pride in the courage and honor exhibited by their ancestors and who want to continue to remember their sacrifice. There are hundreds of Walton County citizens who have a connection to that flag and monument and want it to remain in place. So, in the end, removal will only serve to further divide us and cause a new round of hard feelings and pain. Those of us who wish for the flag to remain did not start this battle and did not want it. The injuries that have already resulted and will result in the future cannot be laid at our feet. At the BCC meeting a lady left her seat when a flag supporter sat down next to her because she did not want to sit by her. What a sad commentary on where we are as a people when we cannot be civil and respectful to those with differing opinions.
Some have asked me what I personally see the flag as representing. I see the good and the bad but in the end I see a representation of our shared history and a group of people who were willing to die for their family, homes and freedom. “Heritage, not Hate.”
America is besieged by political correctness. From abolishing copyrights (Washington Redskins) to proposing to dig up graves (General Nathan B. Forrest) to proposing to dismantle a work of art (Stone Mountain) the self-appointed thought police are obsessed with removing anything they find offensive. They have made their way to Walton County to demand the removal of the Confederate flag from the Civil War Memorial in DeFuniak Springs.
As usual, the truth is distorted or misrepresented in order to fit their narrative. This is certainly true of the letter from a University of Florida professor recently circulated around the county. Professor Ortiz is the faculty advisor for Students for a Democratic Society, Dream Defenders and CHISPAS UF. These organizations are far-left, radical groups that seek to destroy anything that they do not deem as fitting their vison for America. He is interested in Walton County only as it serves to promote his politics and agenda. While those who support his views on the Confederate flag seek to portray him as an unbiased observer, this is clearly not the case. As the old saying goes, the professor “has a dog in the hunt.”
The flag in question DOES NOT fly over the county courthouse. The flag is part of a memorial to Confederate war dead from Walton County. These individuals fought to protect their families and homes and they served with honor.
The delegation from Walton County voted against secession in 1861. One of the delegates, John Morrison, later donated a portion of the funds used to create the monument. Tragically, one of his sons is listed on the memorial. These facts support the position that the majority of these men fought to protect their homes and families and not to support slavery.
The politically correct crowd places great stock in the fact that the flag was not erected until 1964. They consider this to be the “smoking gun” that the supporters of the flag, then and now, are all racist and favor segregation. The fact is we have no idea why the 1964 commission voted to erect the flag. All are dead so they are not here to explain themselves, so we simply do not know. What we do know is that those same leaders complied with the law by removing the separate public facilities and the school board followed suit.
Slavery and segregation were evil. I cannot imagine anyone who would wish to reinstate these abominations. Those who support the flag seek to honor their heritage and remember and preserve history, not bring back a failed system of oppression. Each of us hopes to achieve a society where a person is judged by the content of their character instead of their ethnic background or the color of their skin.
Professor Ortiz’ version of history paints the Civil War as a list of atrocities and horrific acts on the part of the Southern citizens and soldiers; in reality history is much more complex. Atrocities were committed by both sides. In fact, the North killed far more Southern civilians and destroyed far more private property than did their Southern counterparts. Walton County did not go through the Civil War unscathed. The county seat at Eucheeanna was captured and looted by Union troops under General Asboth in 1864 with devastating results to the citizens of the area. And lest anyone forget, Reconstruction was traumatic for ordinary, poor-working Southerners, white and black. Many were left homeless and fell into a type of servitude as harsh as slavery due to share-cropping and company store operations.
Did individuals suffer under the Confederate flag, both during the war and the years of Jim Crow and segregation? Certainly. The same statement could be said about most symbols and flags around the world. If you remove every symbol or monument that might offend someone or that someone has negative feelings about you would be left with nothing. And no flag would be left except a white flag.
So the central question in this debate is should a symbol that is a source of pride for one group but offends another be displayed on government property? As with history, this is a complex subject and there are no easy answers. I am sure there are those who are offended when they fly into Reagan National Airport as well as those who fly into Kennedy International. There are as many opinions as there are people. In the case of this flag at this monument, what is the correct response? This flag has existed as part of this memorial over 50 years. Other than those who have family connections to those memorialized there and those whose families lived here during that era in history, as well as those who are deeply offended by its existence, most people did not know the flag was even in the courthouse lawn. Many of those who stand in opposition to it now did not know it existed until a group of people with an agenda decided to use the horrific, evil acts of a monster in South Carolina as an excuse to remove all vestiges of anything positive about the Old South and whitewash history into a narrative they approve of.
Removal of the flag would give satisfaction to those in our community who truly feel oppressed or offended by its presence. I would say to them that the un-whitewashed remembrance of what their ancestors suffered as well as segregation and it’s ending is needed and the memorials and flags they wish to remove serve to remind us all of their history as well. At the same time the flag’s removal would hurt and deeply offend those who see the memorial and the flag as a symbol of pride in the courage and honor exhibited by their ancestors and who want to continue to remember their sacrifice. There are hundreds of Walton County citizens who have a connection to that flag and monument and want it to remain in place. So, in the end, removal will only serve to further divide us and cause a new round of hard feelings and pain. Those of us who wish for the flag to remain did not start this battle and did not want it. The injuries that have already resulted and will result in the future cannot be laid at our feet. At the BCC meeting a lady left her seat when a flag supporter sat down next to her because she did not want to sit by her. What a sad commentary on where we are as a people when we cannot be civil and respectful to those with differing opinions.
Some have asked me what I personally see the flag as representing. I see the good and the bad but in the end I see a representation of our shared history and a group of people who were willing to die for their family, homes and freedom. “Heritage, not Hate.”
I think you are exactly right. I am not a big fan of social media although I do like the SoWal website. It gives me much information I wouldn't receive otherwise. On the subject at hand, I have been known to be very vociforous when confronting individuals in person but is is a rare occurrence. It is much easier for someone to do so on a website, even SoWal.
I certainly understand what you are saying, Danny. I hope others will really really listen but something tells me the arrogance (in some) is too great to overcome by themselves. Yes there are people that do not tolerate arrogance and condescension very well, me included. I have to really work on it myself. Others may not be so inclined and to tell the truth they did not start it. I hope it does not continue to escalate. Since nothing has happened yet I am actually hopeful that it won't but would not be surprised if it does. I did not want to bring this up but I have already spoken to some that have a full can of whoopass to go along with those empty beer bottles in the back of their pickup trucks that keep getting talked about. I tell them to take a deep breath and go fishing. That is what I do 
So now people are threatening us with bodily harm? Maybe I should contact the sheriff's office. Threats are scary, and we will be taking them seriously. And since you have published that you had knowledge about this, you will be the first person that I have the sheriff speak to if any thing bad should happen or threats are made. I can't even believe this.I certainly understand what you are saying, Danny. I hope others will really really listen but something tells me the arrogance (in some) is too great to overcome by themselves. Yes there are people that do not tolerate arrogance and condescension very well, me included. I have to really work on it myself. Others may not be so inclined and to tell the truth they did not start it. I hope it does not continue to escalate. Since nothing has happened yet I am actually hopeful that it won't but would not be surprised if it does. I did not want to bring this up but I have already spoken to some that have a full can of whoopass to go along with those empty beer bottles in the back of their pickup trucks that keep getting talked about. I tell them to take a deep breath and go fishing. That is what I do
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If you look at the CNN poll from a few weeks ago on the Flag issue, and look at the specific stats within that poll, it tells a good overall story about opinions, racial divide, education, etc... the poll looked at opinions on what the confederate flag stands for in general and whether the flag should be removed from public land or not.
...nearly all flag-related questions reveal broad racial divides.
The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride. Opinions of the flag are sharply divided by race, and among whites, views are split by education.
Among African-Americans, 72% see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism, just 25% of whites agree. In the South, the racial divide is even broader. While 75% of Southern whites describe the flag as a symbol of pride and 18% call it a symbol of racism, those figures are almost exactly reversed among Southern African-Americans, with just 11% seeing it as a sign of pride and 75% viewing it as a symbol of racism.
Among whites, there's a sharp divide by education, and those with more formal education are less apt to see the flag as a symbol of pride. Among whites with a college degree, 51% say it's a symbol of pride, 41% one of racism. Among those whites who do not have a college degree, 73% say it's a sign of Southern pride, 18% racism.
A majority favors removing the Confederate flag from government property that isn't part of a museum: 55% support that while 43% are opposed. And half support private companies choosing not to sell or manufacture items featuring the Confederate flag: 50% are in favor, 47% opposed.
But most oppose other efforts, including redesigning state flags that feature Confederate emblems or symbols to remove references to the Confederacy (57% oppose that), renaming streets and highways named after Confederate leaders (68% oppose that) and removing tributes to those who fought for the Confederacy from public places (71% oppose that).
Among African-Americans, however, most favor removing flags from government property (73%), private companies stopping the sale or manufacture of products featuring the flag (65%) and redesigning state flags that feature Confederate references to remove them (59%)...
The CNN/ORC poll was conducted June 26-28 among a random national sample of 1,017 adults. Additional interviews were conducted with African-Americans and combined with those reached through the initial sample of 1,017 for a total of 303 non-Hispanic black respondents. The margin of sampling error for all adults is +/- 3 percentage points, for results among blacks it is +/- 5.5 percentage points. Results among the 727 non-Hispanic whites reached in the initial sample have a margin of sampling error of +/- 3.5 percentage points.
more analsis and poll questions at cnn.com.
...nearly all flag-related questions reveal broad racial divides.
The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride. Opinions of the flag are sharply divided by race, and among whites, views are split by education.
Among African-Americans, 72% see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism, just 25% of whites agree. In the South, the racial divide is even broader. While 75% of Southern whites describe the flag as a symbol of pride and 18% call it a symbol of racism, those figures are almost exactly reversed among Southern African-Americans, with just 11% seeing it as a sign of pride and 75% viewing it as a symbol of racism.
Among whites, there's a sharp divide by education, and those with more formal education are less apt to see the flag as a symbol of pride. Among whites with a college degree, 51% say it's a symbol of pride, 41% one of racism. Among those whites who do not have a college degree, 73% say it's a sign of Southern pride, 18% racism.
A majority favors removing the Confederate flag from government property that isn't part of a museum: 55% support that while 43% are opposed. And half support private companies choosing not to sell or manufacture items featuring the Confederate flag: 50% are in favor, 47% opposed.
But most oppose other efforts, including redesigning state flags that feature Confederate emblems or symbols to remove references to the Confederacy (57% oppose that), renaming streets and highways named after Confederate leaders (68% oppose that) and removing tributes to those who fought for the Confederacy from public places (71% oppose that).
Among African-Americans, however, most favor removing flags from government property (73%), private companies stopping the sale or manufacture of products featuring the flag (65%) and redesigning state flags that feature Confederate references to remove them (59%)...
The CNN/ORC poll was conducted June 26-28 among a random national sample of 1,017 adults. Additional interviews were conducted with African-Americans and combined with those reached through the initial sample of 1,017 for a total of 303 non-Hispanic black respondents. The margin of sampling error for all adults is +/- 3 percentage points, for results among blacks it is +/- 5.5 percentage points. Results among the 727 non-Hispanic whites reached in the initial sample have a margin of sampling error of +/- 3.5 percentage points.
more analsis and poll questions at cnn.com.
Danny - who is the author of that opinion piece in the Defuniak Herald you posted?
Yes please do. I will give them a copy of your post as well.