Welcome to America

[Lou Deman]

Lou has a problem. He can't differentiate between what people have been charged with, and what their actual crimes might have been had they been pursued to the letter of the law. I blame the education system. Being a carpenter as he says he is, is no excuse for profound ignorance.

LOTB check out the article below. Maybe pick 5 names of those that have plead guilty and compare them with what they were charged with then tell me who's being ignorant. If you would ever like to discuss politics I would love to do so over lunch as I find it more enlightening to hear from the other side of the isle instead of my own. I'll even buy. I'm easy to find I post under my actual name. Thanks in advance

 

[Lou Deman]

You just keep repeating the same point that I rendered meaningless without even trying to convince me that I'm wrong.

Please help a lowly tradesmen out. How did you render the point that no one has been charged with insurrection meaningless? My goal is not to convince you that you are wrong, I am interacting with people I don't know in an attempt to gain knowledge and insight. If my stance is wrong or flawed I adjust it accordingly. Its your anger that I could do without

 

[Leader of the Banned]

Please help a lowly tradesmen out. How did you render the point that no one has been charged with insurrection meaningless? My goal is not to convince you that you are wrong, I am interacting with people I don't know in an attempt to gain knowledge and insight. If my stance is wrong or flawed I adjust it accordingly. Its your anger that I could do without

I'll type slowly. It's meaningless to use solely what people have been charged with as a basis for the crimes they have actually committed. People frequently get charged with crimes lesser than the actual in order to expedite prosecution and ensure conviction.

 

[elgordoboy]

Monotodium glutamate.

I put that on boogers before I eat them

 

[elgordoboy]

I'll type slowly. It's meaningless to use solely what people have been charged with as a basis for the crimes they have actually committed. People frequently get charged with crimes lesser than the actual in order to expedite prosecution and ensure conviction.

Thats a clunky sentence you typed up there. what would you use additionally as a basis for “the crimes they have actually committed” beyond charging them with those crimes? With all the clamor going on about traitorous behavior then convicting someone of jay walking means they were still traitorous but the easy route was taken? sounds reasonable. I see why your sentence was clunky, mine is too, lots of mental gymnastics needed. Its political theater. As always

 

[Lou Deman]

I'll type slowly. It's meaningless to use solely what people have been charged with as a basis for the crimes they have actually committed. People frequently get charged with crimes lesser than the actual in order to expedite prosecution and ensure conviction.

Thanks for typing slowly, please know the difference between sarcasm and being a JO, now back to business

“Plea bargaining is a defining, if not the defining, feature of the federal criminal justice system” (Brown and Bunnell, 2006:1063). In plea bargaining, a defendant is faced with a charge at arraignment. Typically this is the maximum charge or punishment that the defendant will be held to if he or she goes to trial. The prosecutors will present the defendant with an opportunity to plead guilty to a lesser charge or to the original charge with less than the maximum sentence. In theory, the charge presented limits the penalties faced if the defendant decides to go to trial. While being found innocent or being acquitted is, of course, the best way for defendants to avoid jail time and other penalties, going to trial is perceived as risky, because it is impossible to predict what a jury will decide. As a result, many defendants enter pleas (Bar-Gill and Ben-Shahar, 2009).

Standard operating procedure is to charge the person with the max and plead them down. As you can see by the links earlier in this thread (what the people were charged with and what they pleaded to) that you may not understand the justice system as well as you think you do.

 

[elgordoboy]

Lou has a problem. He can't differentiate between what people have been charged with, and what their actual crimes might have been had they been pursued to the letter of the law. I blame the education system. Being a carpenter as he says he is, is no excuse for profound ignorance.

Why should being a carpenter be or not be an excuse for profound ignorance? What is it that you do or have done that’s so great? What a ridiculous and pompous statement. Being a douche is no excuse for profound douchiness. Or I guess it is

 

[Leader of the Banned]

Thats a clunky sentence you typed up there. what would you use additionally as a basis for “the crimes they have actually committed” beyond charging them with those crimes? With all the clamor going on about traitorous behavior then convicting someone of jay walking means they were still traitorous but the easy route was taken? sounds reasonable. I see why your sentence was clunky, mine is too, lots of mental gymnastics needed. Its political theater. As always

In your humorous example it's an impossible case to make. In the Jan 6 insurrection, it's an extremely difficult one, at least historically. It's so difficult, that even attempting it may not be worth the trouble. Fortunately for our country's sake, there is very little legal precedent. These things don't happen very often. Still, legal scholars leave it on the table.

Are Jan. 6 rioters traitors? So far, criminal charges say no

Some legal scholars say that sedition charges could be justified but that prosecutors may be reluctant to bring them because of their legal complexity and the difficulty historically in securing convictions. Overzealousness in applying them going back centuries has also discredited their use

Accusations against Jan. 6 rioter Thomas Caldwell certainly seem to fit the charge of sedition as it’s generally understood — inciting revolt against the government.

The Justice Department is continuing its work to prosecute a record number of cases. But they have so far opted for comparatively run-of-the-mill charges, like entering a restricted area and obstructing an official proceeding. Caldwell faces those charges, as well as conspiracy, which, like sedition, carries a maximum 20-year prison term.

At least one man is charged with conspiracy. It should be clear that the nature of the crimes committed at the insurrection are a far cry from statue toppling. It was an attempt to interfere with our most important governmental function. To use the word "insurrection" is not hyperbole, simply because prosecutors were reluctant to bring charges of sedition or treason.

 

[Lou Deman]

Why should being a carpenter be or not be an excuse for profound ignorance? What is it that you do or have done that’s so great? What a ridiculous and pompous statement.

When dealing with some people you have to just let the water roll off your back and just realize they can't help themselves.

 

[Leader of the Banned]

Why should being a carpenter be or not be an excuse for profound ignorance? What is it that you do or have done that’s so great? What a ridiculous and pompous statement. Being a douche is no excuse for profound douchiness. Or I guess it is

He's the one who brought his profession into this.