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Paula

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2005
3,747
442
Michigan but someday in SoWal as well
Just did my taxes and am VERY pleased with the return on our investment. I'm assuming those who are criticizing people who invest in property and SoWal are doing extremely well with their choice of investments (and I'd love to know what those investments are so we can, too, can join in on these smart decisions).

As for our cottages, no -- we don't cover all of our costs through our rentals and I earn extra income by working extra (fortunately at work that I enjoy very much and would do even if I didn't have to pay for these cottages) to cover some of the costs of carrying these two cottages. However, a lot of the costs are indeed covered by rentals, moreso than I had initially expected. We have two properties and the combined rental income certainly pays for all of the expenses for one of those cottages after only 3 years of ownership of one cottage and 2.5 years of ownership of the other. And we've spent quite a bit of money to make sure the cottages had quality furnishings and equipment, so the start-up was pretty expensive. I think we're finally through with high-ticket purchases for a while.

We do indeed pay quite a bit for the management fees from our management company, but I believe they earn those fees and I'm happy to pay them to take good care of the cottages and guests since I can't be there to do it myself. Sure, the value of the cottages went way up and then settled down again, but they're still now worth a pretty penny more than when we bought them.

One thing I can't do with stocks or my retirement account is that I get to enjoy the cottages a lot now by myself, with family, and with friends. I get to meet and hang out with SoWallers who are wonderful, learn about life at the beach and the environment, so my life is even fuller than before (and it was pretty darn good before). If all goes well (which we can never predict because life can always bring in something unexpected -- but that could happen whether or not we had the cottages), I get to hand them down to the kids someday (along with all the memories they've made at the cottages with us, their friends, their kids, etc.). We didn't put all our financial future in one basket -- there are other investments as well so our future doesn't ride on the cottages. And like most people, we're thinking long-term not short term. Most people on this board who have bought property in SoWal are pretty smart investors and enjoy living well and see their property in SoWal as part of a broader life plan and financial picture.

The only thing I worry about is a devastating hurricane someday. Right now, that would hurt quite a bit because we'd lose rental income. But within about 5-8 years, even a hurricane wouldn't be devastating as long as we have insurance and aren't counting on rentals, though it would certainly put a dent in our plans. When I get nervous, I remind myself that, though possible, the odds of a high 4 or 5 level hurricane are very low. I remind myself that this is not the time to panic because if I do, I'd probably kick myself in a few years for having panicked.

Anyway, this is just one person's experience to throw out their as a possible scenario.
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,770
803
dsilvar said:
I have never seen any real estate holding become a 'penny' stock and fall off the face of the earth in terms of valuation.

The time is coming when you'll see some folks (who "invested" in condos) coming to the sales table and have to hand over a check in order to get out from under their investment.

Then there will be those who just "drop off the keys" and will find a 1099 in their mailbox where they'll have to pay tax on the difference between what they owed the bank and how much the bank got back when they sold the place at auction.

Then there will be those who just walk away from their 20% down (pre-construction) because they can't afford to get--or the bank won't let them get--a mortgage that is 2% higher than it was when they plunked down the money. They never planned on having to actually "pay for" the property--they only planned on beating back a never-ending line of buyers begging them for the chance to take the condo off their hands at a 200% profit.

Real Estate investing certainly isn't anything like investing in penny stock--it's FAR MORE risky.

(Disclaimer: I don't do penny stocks ;-) )
 

SHELLY

SoWal Insider
Jun 13, 2005
5,770
803
Unplugged said:
How does all this relate to 'Aquatera' specifically?? :dunno:

UPlug,

Ya know how you get on the internet to look up some information on Peru for your International Business class and about 2 hours later you find yourself reading about the 6-toed cats in Key West?.....well, it's kinda like that.
 

TooFarTampa

SoWal Insider
SHELLY said:
UPlug,

Ya know how you get on the internet to look up some information on Peru for your International Business class and about 2 hours later you find yourself reading about the 6-toed cats in Key West?.....well, it's kinda like that.

It's a disease that SHELLY is spreading. Thanks to her Erik Estrada post on another thread, I ended up peeking into some message board in the middle of some very heavy discussions that have nothing to do with overpriced desolate parcels. :dunno: Not only do I blame SHELLY for the real estate slowdown, but darnit, I want those 10 minutes back! :rotfl:

Paula: I'm glad your cottages are working out so well for you. I think you have life nailed in general. ;-) However you did mention that you purchased about three years ago. I know people who also bought around that time, in very good locations, who have developed their rental network and are now able to almost break even on the costs of ownership, plus they are sitting on some nice chunks of equity. Which is great for them! But the time to pull this off was three or four years ago. We bought a year later and we are nowhere near breaking even, although we have had several difficult challenges that were just bad luck and we expect things will be better soon. However we do not expect to break even. (Which is OK for us because we have a decent amount of paper equity even with a correction, enough cash flow to handle it, and we are overall very happy with our purchase.)

The people who bought a year ago and are mortgaged to the hilt can forget it. From a logic (not emotional) standpoint, the best candidates for purchasing real estate in SoWal at the moment -- given that the speculators who could flee have done so -- are people who are looking to do 1031 exchanges, or people with large sums of cash to dispose of like a sudden inheritance, or people so wealthy it doesn't matter. The really wealthy ones are looking into the Retreat, Alys Beach, WaterSound, Rosemary, Seaside, etc. They are not so much affected by taxes and insurance costs. The sellers with the middling properties (middling being generally great but not top of the line) aren't selling because even the people with inheritances and 1031 exchanges to do are worried about insurance, hurricanes and property taxes and thinking about buying in the mountains instead. The main cure for this will be one or two quiet hurricane seasons and some insurance rebalancing. It is my opinion that once that happens, those buyers will start filtering back.

It is likely that those buyers will be looking for smaller, well-built places close to the beach but maybe not on it. Like Aquatera, maybe? Unplugged does that get us back on topic? :dunno:
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,648
1,773
SHELLY said:
UPlug,

Ya know how you get on the internet to look up some information on Peru for your International Business class and about 2 hours later you find yourself reading about the 6-toed cats in Key West?.....well, it's kinda like that.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: Here I am thinking this thread is about mid-life crisis dream cars.
 

Paula

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2005
3,747
442
Michigan but someday in SoWal as well
TooFarTampa:

I think you have a good perspective on things, too! I definitely agree that we bought right before the prices skyrocketed and we're happy for that. Also, the interest rates were low at that time. Our cottages are small and simple (we figured if we couldn't afford them both, we could sell one of them and still stay in SoWal -- and if life throws a curve ball, we may still have to do that someday). And, of course, though the rentals pretty much pay for the basic costs of the equivalent of one cottage now, we do have to pay the carrying costs for the other cottage and I don't expect that will change for quite a while. If we had one bigger house rather than the two smaller ones, then the rentals would be covering about half of the carrying costs. So, we still have to plan carefully to pay for the cottages and I do take on extra jobs to help pay for them (as I said in another post, I felt the cottages were a good way to give us some financial discipline as well). Sounds like you make trade-offs to own your place as well because it is worth it to you probably for the same kinds of reasons ours are worth it to us. But it's not always easy for sure.

What would I do today if I really wanted to buy in SoWal or another beach community? Well, I wouldn't buy above my means because I wouldn't want to lose sleep over a vacation home. Right now, I think there are some good (not great) prices on mid-range places. These would be in the $400 - $500 range today in SoWal which is amazing that this would be called mid-range, which I realize is far from many people's reach, but it is within many people's reach -- especially middle class baby boomers who saved well over a few decades -- as well. I don't know how long I'd wait for the prices to go down more. I'd get to know some of the most knowledgeable people in real estate in the area who have a balanced view and seem wise (we liked the realtors we worked with very much -- and they showed excellent judgment in understanding our needs and helping us understand the trade-offs of different places). I'd be asking real estate agents I trust about the west end of Panama City beach if I couldn't afford SoWal (and I'd consider how that area would do in a hurricane). If I had the money to buy one big house but wasn't convinced I'd be able to afford it in the longer-term, then I'd be asking about two smaller places in one well-built and well-designed community so that I'd have more flexibility (e.g., be able to sell one and keep the other if times got tough). I'd definitely find out about the quality of the places that were built -- e.g., how well built they are and are they likely to withstand at least a category 3 hurricane.

I'd keep a close watch on the market through the MLS listings on the Internet to watch the trends. I'd get the Walton Sun online and look at the real estate listings. I'd negotiate a lower price when I found something I liked. I wouldn't buy for the short-term but rather for the long-term. And I wouldn't buy unless I was already maxing out my retirement.

I'd have to have money in the bank for a sizeable (sp?) down payment. I would buy to enjoy the place with family/friends and for retirement use more than as an investment (which is what we did the first time, it just turned out to be a good investment, too). I would plan to rent it out to take care of some of the expenses and I would take the initiative to figure out how to be a rental that guests would want to come back to and would tell their friends about.

For people who have enough income to buy something in SoWal, yet still have to be cautious about how they spend their money, they'd have to think through many details like this so that they can make the right decision for them. And then, once they buy a place, just enjoy it and not get hung up on whether the value is going up or down because it shouldn't be as relevant to them if they bought for the right reasons in ways that fit their lifestyle and financial situation.

Like you and many others on this board have said, the people who get themselves in trouble are those who paid more than their places are worth now, who paid a lot and hoped to flip in the short term, and who can't handle the carrying costs in a tough market. These are tough times for them.

It will indeed be interesting to see where the market is in about 5 - 10 years, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Kurt, I hope these threads are going to be archived somewhere so we can look back and see our old real estate discussions (on the other hand, I hope I have more exciting things to do in 5 years than to look back at old real estate discussions!).

In the meantime, I'll continue to drive my aging car around town and to the beach (and may still own it in 5 years if I'm lucky!). SJ, my dream car is an old one that still works very well and looks good enough to not embarrass the family.

Oh yeah, back to Aquatera... I like the community design -- I like places that feel like neighborhoods. And the location on the east end of 30A is a good one from what I can tell. I don't know how close to the beach the places will be - e.g. will it take 5 minutes to walk to the beach (or 10 or 15)? It will be close (within walking distance) to restaurants, shops, outdoor concerts/movies, etc., over time. For people who can afford places on the higher end, they have many very good choices these days. Where they choose to buy will depend on taste (e.g. architecture, life style neighborhood offers).
 

Miss Kitty

Meow
Jun 10, 2005
47,017
1,131
70
TFT and Paula....thanks for your well thought out posts about owning property down here. I enjoy your perspectives and agree with what you say.

I wouldn't buy anything that I would lose sleep over. That includes homes, cars, clothes, etc. It was almost a impulse for us to buy a place in WC back in 2001...we weren't looking to make a "killing" in the market, just decided to go for it and own a piece of the place we love so much. We are blessed.
 
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