Automotive bailout- will it be a Big 3 Christmas present?

[Alicia Leonard]

Since it would seem that foreign manufacturers assemble and make more cars percentagewise in the US, I would guess that the jobs they are supporting are cushy union no-work or management jobs - fat that needs to be trimmed IMO.

Foreign automakers use more parts manufactured here, they build more cars here, employ fewer American engineers, but there is still a 2:1 gap in actual jobs?

Maybe it is that they are efficient in their production, as well as business models

 

[idlewind]

From that same article:

Foreign car manufacturers generate billions of dollars in jobs and community infrastructure in the U.S., but there is a difference between Detroit's economic footprint and that of its foreign rivals.
The Center for Automotive Research says Detroit's Big Three employed almost 240,000 people in the U.S. at the end of 2007. Foreign makers had about 113,00 U.S. employees at the time.

Watch UAW leader's take on bailout's failure in Senate ?
The key difference in how the Big Three and foreign brands support jobs in the U.S. comes outside the factories, according to a 2006 study by the Level Field Institute, a group formed by Big Three retirees in Washington.
"What's driving the difference in jobs ... is investment in research, design, engineering and management," Level Field President Jim Doyle said in a statement on the 2006 study.
The Center for Automotive Research said the Big Three had 24,000 engineers on U.S. payrolls in 2007. The Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association said its member companies had 3,500 U.S. research and development employees in 2007.
Level Field found that every 1,000 vehicles sold by Detroit's Big Three in the U.S. support more than twice as many jobs as 1,000 vehicles sold by foreign nameplates.

Am I the only one wondering why there was no discussion about the wages of the financial institution workers, was it because they had no union? The politicians from states with foreign auto plants in them are the ones most vocal against aid to the American manufacturers. It sounds like union busting IMHO.

Poppy, it is not a matter of union busting, it is a matter of being competitive. What the unions want is like two teams playing football and one team spoting the other two touchdowns. If the other team is any good, you will never catch them. The big three are playing against people who are very good and with the wages they pay, they will never catch up. So any bailout is only postponing the inevitable, or throwing good money after bad.

 

[30ashopper]

Since it would seem that foreign manufacturers assemble and make more cars percentagewise in the US, I would guess that the jobs they are supporting are cushy union no-work or management jobs - fat that needs to be trimmed IMO.

Foreign automakers use more parts manufactured here, they build more cars here, employ fewer American engineers, but there is still a 2:1 gap in actual jobs?

Union contracts have restrictions on how much automation unionized plants can use durring assembly. Efficiency is not a goal of the UAW - they want to maintain jobs. The big three have agreed to this for years -

"The much-derided ??jobs bank?? that permits laid-off workers to receive most of their pay was created in the mid-1980s as a trade-off to the UAW for increased factory automation. But the system became a symbol for the union?s largesse when workers were paid for years after their factories closed."

 

[idlewind]

Paying people not to work cannot do much for the bottom line.

 

[traderx]

Maybe it is that they are efficient in their production, as well as business models

I read a statistic recently but now cannot remember.

But...it was something like American cars spend twenty percent more time on the factory floor that do cars in US Japanese plants.

 

[30ashopper]

I read a statistic recently but now cannot remember.

But...it was something like American cars spend twenty percent more time on the factory floor that do cars in US Japanese plants.

One of the reasons why they are now producing more parts in other countries. It's kind of ironic, the Japanese companies are becoming more domestic (building factories on non-union friendly states) and the American manufacturers are becoming more foriegn to avoid the unions they are locked in with here in the states. I imagine the whole thing will ultimately flip over at some point.

 

[Minnie]

Coleman of Minnesota voted NO. Of those not voting, Stevens of Alaska could not get a furlough from jail, Kennedy is sick, Biden is fitting the VP house for drapes. I have no idea why Hagel, Sunnunu, Craig, Alexander and Cornyn ( Republicans) and Kerry (Democrat) could not work the vote into their schedules. Neither senator from Oregon could make it nor could Graham of SC. His frequent flyer miles must have been exhausted flying around with McCain. This was a pretty important vote to skip no matter which view you held.:angry:

Alexander was absent due to medical reasons. He did make a statement though:

Senator Alexander did not vote because he is home in Tennessee recuperating from surgery to remove a cyst from his back. If he had been present he would have voted no. In a statement the Senator said, ?I am deeply concerned about the challenges facing Tennesseans in the auto industry, but I have a primary obligation to protect all taxpayers. Government involvement may have some role in the solution here, but putting a government that can?t run itself very well in charge of running big car companies makes no sense? and that?s exactly what this bill would have done."

 

[scooterbug44]

So they voted the bill down ........................ only to have Shrub and the Treasury Department say they will bail them out!

 

[poppy]

Poppy, it is not a matter of union busting, it is a matter of being competitive. What the unions want is like two teams playing football and one team spoting the other two touchdowns. If the other team is any good, you will never catch them. The big three are playing against people who are very good and with the wages they pay, they will never catch up. So any bailout is only postponing the inevitable, or throwing good money after bad.

Right, and when there are no more unions in the auto industry I would be willing to bet the non union workers will see their wages and benefits slowly erode.

 

[30ashopper]

So they voted the bill down ........................ only to have Shrub and the Treasury Department say they will bail them out!

The whole thing may be pointless, GMAC is about to go under. That would pretty much wipe out all of GM's dealerships in one fell swoop.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/28195983

This whole industry is one big slow motion train wreck.