Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Okay I prefer this my last post to answer FBB but don't ask me any more questions or I will answer them.

Fbb, you ask why I have not come down on disrespectful behavior on both sides. I have. Do your research. Once I started reading you and yours posts I soon realized that your mission here is not what you say it is. You hide your names for a reason that is not what you say it is. Your are here NOT to protect my property rights or anyone's property rights including bpo's. It is pure abuse of power to demand that power to exclude good and decent people from the beach so that you and yours will have "private enjoyment" of a resource that has been shared since the beginning. You want the power of controlling the resource. I think your group of power brokers are here to provoke anger within the community which will hide your purpose. If anyone disagrees with you with a voice you attack that voice with fervor. You do not listen to anyone who have actually shared the beaches for public recreational use. You need them to be silent otherwise your mission is to extinguish those voices. You need to believe your facts are vastly superior to the reality of "beach use". You know you are weak in proving private enjoyment in land use on these beaches. You attack people as if they are inferior or less than your prime directive. That is where I drew the line and the reason why I posted at all. You know the reason for the lawsuit was "due process" which you wanted all along but you now have to convince these bpo's that have willingly shared their beaches forever must now dispute public recreational use. What a piece of work to say that the lawsuit is what makes you angry. Bravo Sierra

I think someone is directing this attack on this community to change the beaches from shared enjoyment to private enjoyment. I think we can figure out who but it probably does not matter at this point because you have succeeded in making people angry on both sides which was you mission. I do not know Dave at all but even if I disagreed with him on all other issues I will always stand up for people who are being bullied with relentless attacks over and over because everyone including you do not deserve that kind of abuse. I guess this is a feel good moment for you. Your group has silenced almost everyone in this forum with behavior that must make you feel good about yourselves. I wonder. You may very well win the lawsuit with money and power but you must know that it will not provide you with that one thing that all humans need more than anything else...I think you should figure it out on your own...

Again, if you do not ask me a question I prefer not to post on this thread again...

 

Here is a statement, not a question. #2050 was a long diatribe about “Wonder why Dave Rauschkolb and mputnal never attack the majority [of] CU believers with "anonymous" names?” I did not “ask why I [mputnal] have not come down on disrespectful behavior on both sides.” You put words in my mouth again and you obviously are a mind reader to know my “motives” to “provoke anger” -- by shining the light of truth and facts on the in-credible CU beliefs. Then you launch into the usual not credible abuse of American property-rights “power” class-warfare myth.

Do your research. I have only said that Walton BPO’s have the Constitutional right to choose quiet uninterrupted enjoyment of their private property or not; as do all Americans. My estimated 99.9% of the BPO have chosen to share, including me, but if Government police POWER declares that BPO American property rights are null and void all bets are off.

You state “It is pure abuse of power to demand that power to exclude good and decent people from the beach ...” FACT. No one is excluding anyone from the about 13 miles of publicly available Walton dry sand beaches, any of the miles of Florida State park beaches, or all 825 miles of Florida’s foreshore.

The litigation is disappointing and could be a waste of Walton taxpayer's tens of millions of dollars (according to Commissioner's estimate). The anti-social media, intentional CU believer's misinformation, and posts like this make me angry. Mike Huckabee’s role in pushing controversial beach access law
CUnCourt.

 

4/25/2019
https://sowal.com/forum/attachments/upload_2019-4-25_8-30-52-jpeg.76395/
When you see a PCB or Destin bumper sticker, what thought immediately comes to mind? Probably same for all of us with any time spent here - nice, but it ain’t 30A!

Do you remember why you started renting/visiting here? What was it? Remember when you bought your first 30A property? Why here?

Because it was DIFFERENT, right? Remember the words you used to describe it to family and friends as you invited them here? “Private” “Quiet” “Intimate” “Less crowded”. That wasn’t by accident. The entire genetic code of Sowal beaches is because of the private ownership and neighborhood beach personalities.

You could rent “private beach”. You could buy “private beach”. There wasn’t a free for all frat party atmosphere because of unlimited public beach access on the sands. That behavior was regulated by the privately owned property where such behavior was immediately squelched. And yet, by custom, no one was ever “Kicked off” of private beaches because owners don’t do that unless bad actors abuse the privilege.

Walton County has always had more than 50% PUBLIC beach. Still does. That hasn’t changed. There are now deliberately misleading fear tactics out there with scary words like “Quiet Title” and “Privatization”, neither of which have affected one single square inch of public beach, not one. Yet, the mob mentality, orchestrated by local carnival barkers eager for fame and notoriety, and dollars, have mislead the citizens and deliberately tried to divide the community in a shell game of Customary Use.

The fact is that the county outran the capabilities of local Commissioners to plan for growth 20 years ago, and we haven’t improved that talent to deal with it even yet. So the County, in failing to plan beach availability, tried to illegally claim private property as public, without following the laws requiring judicial oversight. The local Good Ol’ Boys overreached their authority and got caught by the adults in Tallahassee.

So they then decide to sue 4,800 of Sowal citizens to take their property. That’s right, your tax money is being spent, and a lot of it, to SUE almost 5,000 of your neighbors, and steal what they agreed to purchase at a premium, and have a deed to prove it.

Don’t blame them please, they didn’t want or ask for this fight. They live here and care for these beaches just like you and me. Go meet them, they are truly the eclectic fabric of 30A. The signs they had to put up are just in defense of this new orchestrated public attack against them.

The bottom line is this: The minute you release the public to occupy all of Sowal beaches, you IMMEDIATELY get nasty Destin and PCB problems. How will you feel about that 30A sticker then? Nostalgic? Me too!

 

Reggie's comments about unrestrained public use of beaches reminded me the previous "Beach Spreading" which is already a symptom of the shared "Tragedy of the [Beach] Commons" posts. Good reminder Regg.

#502 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
#503 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
#618 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
#917 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

And the Walton Commissioners' and Administrator's, Larry Jones, lack of respect for private property rights and Walton tax payers money. October 25, 2016 BCC Regular Meeting. If Commissioners have to spend $40,000,000 or $50,000,000 tax payer's money on CU, we have to.

 

Why so personal? You seem very angry.

 

This is a personal attack and has been reported. You seem to have a regrettable neeed to attack people instead of just sticking to the issue. Not good for our community.

 

Honestly, posts and pictures (f..abee) like that of course hurt CU credibility along with FBFA’s lies and video theatrics. Glad it wasn’t deleted. Just proves every barrel has a “bottom”.

Sorry that Mike Huckabee is constantly being attacked. He is a sincere, nice guy. I don’t agree with some of his viewpoints. But we all could say that for “most” people we know.

Dave (and supporters) could take the higher road and denounce that kind of stuff. Maybe he did and I missed it. But what does one expect when the populace is whipped into a frenzy with lies and mistruths on a subject as controversial and emotional as customary use?

I’ve said it before, Dave is a master with social media. Heck, he could even be our next President.

 

Especially for just simply owning private property like most of us do.

 

This post shouts elitism of 30a beachfront owners. Our community is "South Walton" from the interstate to the gulf. And very diverse. Most of us are workin for a livin. We see the sticker you reference as branding bikinis and expensive 4 wheel drives. An elitist tourist thing. We are not a brand we are a community of real people. That is our legacy. Not lawsuits. Not a handful of malcontents obsessed with lawsuits and property boundaries. Claiming to be better than your neighbors is a problem that you apparently do not understand. Destin and PCB are looking more and more preferable to SoWal because of you and yours.

 

Thank you Reggie for a simple and accurate description of this issue. Facts are facts and that will remain the case regardless of how the CU supporters or activists portray the subject matter. Some of us continue to politely ask the commissioners how they can justify spending our tax dollars on a legal battle that will last years and may result in a big fat defeat. NO reply.

If anyone in the county has been provided that answer, please let the rest of us know. Although wasting taxpayer money on legal proceedings, based on zero to little facts, seems to be all the rage these days.

ALL county residents should agree that there are better uses with a far greater ROI for these monies than the CU legal fight. The only ones that may disagree are benefiting financially now from the proceedings and/or will in the future if the beaches are open to all.

The mere thought of new hotels and highrises supplying the spring / summer "mobs" to set up on the 30A beach strip should be a concern for every homeowner.

 

pseudonym James Bentwood why do you think most BPO don’t or didn’t work for a livin? I do just to pay my $25,000 Walton property tax this month for the privilege to use and enjoy my own property. The annual Walton property taxes is about 1/8, one eighth, 12.5% of the original purchase price. We have paid more Walton County taxes (to litigate against me) than the purchase price of our property. How about you? If you live or own property in Walton what % of taxes do you pay annually of the purchase price?

Is James Bentwood your legal name? You know “real” CU believers do not believe anything that anyone who is “anonymous” say anyway. Do you deny using a pseudonym? You have not yet. What are you afraid of to admit if you use a pseudonym? That BPOs will stage trespass on your property, file a frivolous police report on you, place obscene bumper stickers with you name all around South Walton, dox you on social media, tell intentional untruths about you and your ill-gotten $400 quiet title, worthless, un-buildable, not taxed, property?

#1772 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
#832 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
#488 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

#2056 “Not a handful of malcontents obsessed with lawsuits and property boundaries.”
Past and present Walton Commissioners malcontents that are the Plaintiffs in the current lawsuit; not Defendant, BPOs and the Sherriff has defined the Standard Operating Procedure for identifying beachfront property boundaries. The Sherriff that does not even use the legal MHWL property boundary, but some nebulous il-legal “wet sand” that the Sheriff defined. Thought Sherriff enforced the law; not make his own legal definition or interpret legal propert5y boundaries.

“Claiming to be better than your neighbors is a problem that you apparently do not understand.”
Can you cite where anyone on this thread or any post claimed to be “better than your neighbors” or is that your unsubstantiated opinion?

 

Florida Private property owners have had Right of Exclusion since time immemorial, or more precisely since Florida was admitted to the USA on March 3, 1845. Anything AFTER March 3, 1845 would be controlled by laws of the USA (and Florida) and not any laws of Spain, France, or Great Britain (or public opinion). Any “ancient rights” prior to Florida becoming a State, would be considered INTERUPTED as of March 3, 1845 and no longer valid. March 3, 1845 is the starting point in Florida for “as time immemorial” and no “Citizens in the State of Florida would have knowledge or memory contrary to it”.

Walton County Residents and public can go to the beach, swim, fish, build sandcastles, take pictures, walk the entire 26 miles of Walton County coastline. Those rights are provided by the State of Florida (not the BCC). Those particular rights (swimming, fishing, walking the entire 26 miles of coast-line) are NOT contested by BPO’s and have existed since March 3, 1845 (AKA “the time immemorial for the State of Florida), and exist today. Notice all the old pictures and affidavits all show low density (not many people) on the coastline (near the water) and with no beach equipment (they sat on towels, not temporary tent cities). Folding beach chairs, beach umbrellas, beach wagons, and other beach equipment are modern inventions, nothing ancient about them.

Since March 3, 1845. a person in the State of Florida can not day camp (aka unlimited people and equipment on private property) against the will of the property owner. People did not stay on private property AGAINST the will of the property owner and if they tried to stay against the will of the owner, they were removed, either by the owner or the Sherriff. There are numerous documented cases of removal of people from private property who were there against the will of the property owners and trespassing prior to 2016. ALL BCC Beach Ordinances prior to 2016 fully recognized Private Property Rights. Just because the Sherriff has decided not to enforce trespassing since 2016, does not mean that Property Rights no longer exist in the State of Florida (Florida property rights are shown on the Walton County Web Site).

The lawsuit filed by the BCC (with FBFA listed as a plaintiff), states that removing property rights (right of exclusion) from Private Property owners with full, and absolute control of unlimited people with unlimited equipment transferred to the BCC, is ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and without dispute. The BCC has not submitted evidence which proves all 4 criteria. The chasing of billions of tourist dollars by the BCC is not a valid criterion for forced removal of Florida Property Rights.

 

"The BCC has not submitted evidence which proves all 4 criteria. The chasing of billions of tourist dollars by the BCC is not a valid criterion for forced removal of Florida Property Rights."

Bingo Winner!

 

Typical anti-BPO posts. All opinion and NO facts and no first hand knowledge, like tickledpick first hand knowledge, of what was documented, legal, ruled by a judge, or permitted by government authorities or not. If buster’s belief is “saw all the illegal ‘beach restoration’ you are talking about” or “free for all - beachfront owners doing whatever they wanted while officials were busy looking elsewhere.” Where’s your facts? Evidence to backup your opinion. Opinions are like belly buttons ... everybody has one. Otherwise why should anyone believe your unsubstantiated opinion? This is how all the anti-social media lies get started like quiet title that court documents posted on SoWal and other places get started. BMB1 quiet title YouTube

buster, “what possible reason could you have to claim the beach, other than greed?” Because it is legal and the JUDGE, probably Judge Green, you know the CU Judge, ruled to quiet the property title to the rightful BMB1 property owner!?

More LVT unsubstantiated opinion. “That is patently false. Some reconstruction of “dunes” was approved by county but almost none was approved by the state and they had the jurisdiction.” What gives your statement of fact any credibility? None so far.

More 30A Skunkape stinky CU juvenile one-line BPO attacks. Typical sour grapes.

Buster bluster. “There were more violations than they could deal with and most of the illegal work was covered up” Where’s the evidence or is this more social media in-credible beliefs.

jodiFL does not understand modern construction or government police power building code requires structures to be supported by piles that on bedrock or the same as bedrock. “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.” Not sand.

jodiFL “Think that was about the time that all the beachfront owners were scrambling to shore up the "cliffs" in front of their property and we had a commissioner with a seawall side business that was more than happy to push "permits" through without going through the state like they were supposed to.” I think you are wrong so we are the same and even on opinions.

EZ4144 “Ro Cuchens - remember a pic on here somewhere of him beside a mountain of illegal brown sand on the beach.” Instead of throwing out “brown” bull beliefs why don’t you do the homework and have some facts. Even if there is a pic how do you know the sand was illegal? Did you see the citation? What evidence other than your in-credible belief do you have?

 

Fbb, you probably should leave my name out of any conversation because with all your research you have somehow missed what constitutes a question and what my message has tried to explain to you which is to be careful what you wish for. If my name pops up I am going to respond. I do not think your purpose here is going to get you what you want. In addition you do not read very well at least my posts. There is room to improve on your research. Btw elite wealth is our next big problem for this Country. Elite wealth does not want to share resources and are unbelievable ruthless in that endeavor. For example there are millions of acres public land in this Country that elite wealth has land locked just to keep the public out. Elite wealth will not give easements thru their property and the only way for the public to access is by helicopter. If you could take both the beach and the water you would find a way to not share that too. I did not even realize what elite wealth was until reading you and yours posts. Somehow you have given yourself a mandate for private beach enjoyment. I noticed how easy it is for you to justify exclusive enjoyment of anything you desire. Eventually The People are going to figure it out and not let political polarization keep us apart. I am not talking about our bpo's in Walton County. I am talking about your group of amigos who are not from here at all. I am talking about how humans with power justify and abuse that power. If you go back in history you will find what I am talking about. I like music and thinking I should write more lyrics for The Power Broker Trap whose facts have no shadow and a new one called The Mandated Amigos who lost their shadow...

Scj, oh my goodness. You seriously need to go to law school and take more property law courses. Land use is fascinating. There are all sorts of terms like prescriptive easement, adverse possession and conservative use etc. There are no boundaries on the beach sand to prevent anyone from using the beach sand, well since their were oceans. There has been public recreational use, well since their were humans. There are documents from humans that will testify to the fact of land use (public recreational use) on Walton County beaches, well since they have were able to have the sense of sight and the ability to move up and down the beach unrestricted. I also think the definition of coastal shore sand and who owns it is going to have to be better defined. Most deeds are either incomplete or wrong regarding property descriptions.

Okay, hopefully this will be my last post ...

 

STRAWMAN is the name of a logical fallacy, which means that if you carefully dissect the argument or statement, it doesn't make sense... You put forth a straw man because you know it will be easy for you to knock down or discredit. It's a way of misrepresenting your opponent's position.

Isn't it ironic. Don'tcha think?

 

You got it right the 2nd time. Don't confuse Strawman with Straw Man Btw it takes a straw man to know a straw man don'tcha think? Listen, we could go back and forth like little boys and girls or we can offer civility and truth and honor into an adult conversation. Yes, you have been successful at provoking emotional reactions and we sometimes react because we are not robots. Well done. Bravo (yes just plain bravo). Why is your job here not done? You have valid arguments but go way beyond what is necessary to convey those arguments for some strange reason. You do not have to keep repeating the same things over and over...unless you are getting paid to do it. Surely you guys and gals are not sycophants right? I still believe that we could have a good old fashioned redneck fish fry along with Reggie's special beer and eventually find something to agree on...right?

 

The Walton BCC have zero issues of the deeded private property boundaries. They are legal with or without a fence. Walton County and the Courts all agree property boundaries are real and legal. Just because one person doesn’t personally accept it does not mean he/she can huff and puff and blow away all legally defined property boundaries in the State of Florida.

There are reasons why there are boundaries on pedestrian easements in the first place.

 

The huffing and puffing will come but not by me or any other human. Maybe then you know why communities matter...why the people (this includes local government) matter and why exclusive private enjoyment of coastal sandy beaches matters not as much as you thought it would. Mother nature has the only power that matters in our brief time here on this planet. My grandmother was very wise and when she told me what goes around comes around I had no idea what the circle of life meant. One of you posted a lesson on greatness a couple weeks ago. You may have money and political power and maybe have even done a few great things in your life but when it comes to the circle of life we all are the same...worm food!

Btw a boundary that is not visible, that changes on a daily basis, that contains coastal shore sand and has not/can not/did not restrict public recreational use is not a good position for you. In property law land use and possession are very important terms. Not going to be easy for either side of this issue. If I were a county commissioner I would not hesitate to take this to the Supreme Court. If I were a bfo I think I would just share the beach...good karma is not a bad thing...not a bad thing at all...

 

You are brilliant. Thank you for speaking truth to power.