Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    mputnal, I’ll give you credit for creativity and imagination but ZERO for CU beliefs credibility. You do not even believe that by FL Statute definition BPOs have ownership of the sand and all property rights that go with it landward of the MHWL. So how credible can your grand metaphysical class-warfare ramblings beliefs be?
    #1994 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

    There has been “no coincidence in the sudden change”. How long have you been a part of this south Walton “community” and what county do you reside? Because you have not been here as long as we have owned BF or read SoWal before or just don’t believe the local CU history since 2002; almost 18 years ago.

    #29 Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
    Dave Rauschkolb said: “This is the most ridiculous comment. No one ever spoke of our beaches being private until a few years ago when this nonsense started.” WRONG again.

    Proposed bill could void Walton County's customary use ordinance
    “False. Customary use as been litigated and an issue in Walton long before now. Ask Walton’s $425/hr land use attorney, Mr. Theriaque, about Meyer v. Apollo and Destin's 2002 veiled attempt to declare customary use. 2003 Walton Beach ordinance, customary use was considered and rejected by commissioners. 2007 Walton commissioners directed County Attorney to draft a customary use ordinance and failed to enact it.”

    Mike Huckabee’s role in pushing controversial beach access law
    When did customary use first discussed on the Emerald Coast? Not “suddenly”.

    Supporting Property Rights
    May 2007 How Property Ownership Changes Your World View
    Harvard Business School by Julia Hanna

    mputnal said: “So who are the few individuals?” 650+ of the 1,193 beachfront parcels (estimated 2,200 individual BPOs) who have intervened as Defendants in Commissioners’ litigation. Hardly a few individuals. What about the 84% of the FL Legislators who voted for FS163.035 BPO CU due process? House Bill 631 (2018) - The Florida Senate

    I’ll give you credit for creativity and imagination but ZERO for credibility of your unsubstantiated beliefs.
     
  2. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Why do BPOs feel compelled to use pseudonyms? Because of CU believers civil discourse like this Mike Huckabee’s role in pushing controversial beach access law and staged trespass on BPO property by CU believer attorney and others or frivolous police reports filed against BPO but not known CU believer active shooter videos.
     
  3. kayti elliott

    kayti elliott Beach Lover

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    The CU believers don't want anyone to use Pseudonyms but the CU believers. Maybe the administrators should ban all BFOs and those who agree with the BFOs from using pseudonyms. After all, no one ever accused SoWal of being unbiased.
     
  4. Alex Miles

    Alex Miles Beach Comber

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    "EXCLUSIVITY"
    (A thoughtful topic for the dinner table)

    Before you get caught up adamantly defending the feel-good "customary use" campaign (innocent sounding label, right? Such a cute sticker they gave us at their affidavit blitz, right?), honestly ask yourself these 10 questions:

    1. Do I agree beach density will eventually need to be managed so that the beach ambiance is not ruined for everybody?
    2. Do I agree eventually there is some threshold?
    3. Who gets to decide the threshold?
    Restauranteur empire-builders? Transient vacation rental investors? Bed tax collectors? Monster rental house developers?

    Do I agree low beach use density is beneficial to the environment as well as public health and safety? Seriously now. Where do trespassers actually pee and pooh when they want to day camp on a private beach property all day?

    Aren't I here because of the relatively low density of our beaches compared to our neighboring counties? What's wrong with wanting to maintain that?

    4. How do I recemmend we manage beach density without some form of exclusion? Are economic barriers of beach access ultimately any different than the physical barriers (locked gates) of say, Water Sound?

    5. How do I suggest managing beach density without monetizing beach use? (eenie meenie miney mo?)

    Everyone is in agreement that clean drinking water should be available for every human being, but do I get my water for free? or do I have to pay for it? Though water is unequivocally more essential than a convenient sunbathing spot, I still have to pay for water.

    Do I really believe the public crowds are entitled to free real estate for sunbathing? Does Walton County owe anyone a cheap vacation? Has Walton County indicated any interest in restricting growth of short-term rentals, which ultimately drives out the full-time residents? (Side benefit- Lack of full-time residents opens the floodgates for corruption opportunities.)

    6. How has Walton County indicated any plans in managing beach density? Do I really think just limiting parking is sufficient? How about Uber and the 86 passenger megaliner tour buses? Future shuttle bus plans? How many new rental homes were added just this year, flooding the market. How closely have they studied supply and demand and occupancy rates? Or they just plan to build the pooh out of this county, lining their own pockets while they can still lure investors in the hope of "customary use" while intentionally dragging out the assuredly eventually doomed lawsuits. With supposed ineptness?... How many 'failures to properly notice' do-overs is the county going to get? Pay attention, my friends.

    How effective has Walton County ever been in regulating tourist conduct even on their county-owned public beach parks? Is it fair to confiscate private property just to make it a free-for-all "park"?

    Why do I suppose coastal cities with large public beaches are hubs for human trafficking and porn production industry? (Come on now. Connect the dots. You're smart.)

    How many personnel do I think would be truly required to adequately regulate the conduct of growing crowds along 26 miles of beaches? Who would pay for the high cost of adequately managing crowds on the beach? The beachgoers themselves? How so? If they are day-trippers?

    7. When a homeowner wants to enjoy his private property with his family, why should he forfeit the right to insist an obnoxious, albeit legal, two-faced jerk leave? Wouldn't I demand my family be able to enjoy my own private property?

    How many law enforcement officers do I think will be required to keep the public safe in today's increasingly violent culture, along 26 miles of open free-for-all beaches? (watch the news lately?)
    How many lifeguard stands do we need per capita? How many water rescues and drownings did we have this year?

    Can we continue to keep everybody safe on the beach without proper regulation, monitoring, or controls of ever-growing crowds coming and going?

    8. Is restricting beach density inherently wrong?
    Would veterans suffering from PTSD agree? Would mothers wanting to protect their young children from predatory pervs lurking in large crowds agree? Would shoreline migratory nesting foul and endangered sea turtles benefit? Would elderly couples wanting to walk hand in hand along an uncluttered shoreline agree? Would artists seeking inspiration from the natural environment agree? Would a soul searcher seeking a prayerful, meditative spot, gazing on the gulf horizon agree? Would a shoreline fisherman agree? Would a bride who wants to be assured her beach wedding location can be reserved well in advance agree? Would couples on a romantic getaway agree? Don't people who simply cannot be in a crowd, for one reason another, also have recreational beach rights, even when they're willing to pay for some privacy and solitude?
    What about me? Have I ever enjoyed a vacation getaway on a private beach that exluded the public crowds?

    9. Why should the rights of exclusion be transferred from the private property owners to the government, merely for greedy economic gain? With zero indication of any intention or cabability to properly manage beach use density and behavior?

    10. Is exclusivity wrong? No. It's essential.
    (The transfer of the rights of exclusion is really what this CU lawsuit is about, you know.)

    Whether you agree or disagree, feel free to copy, paste, share and learn from some honest, thoughtful discussion and feedback among your friends and family. I do appreciate that you at least took the time to read this tl;dr post.
    Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  5. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Well, I see a new power broker just entered the room. Kind of makes sense doesn't it? What they lack in credibility they certainly make up in hired guns (their words not mine)!

    Exclusion is what rich people want. They do not want to associate with the community much. They do not like people much (just read their words). Definitely are not able to attend a redneck fish fry or care much for our beach enjoyment or weather you have a happy anything! If they would just try to associate with us real working class people they might find us tolerable :)

    Kathryn, I hear you but you are not using your real name right? I now support public recreational beach use and use my real name as well as Dave and a few others. You call people names like "surfer dude" etc. Does that make you feel good about something? Why would you support exclusive beach use by a few wealthy people who will squash you like a little ant if you stand in their way on any issue? They could give a rats aspirin bottle about mine and your rights. Makes no sense to me why you are giving them a mandate to believe in their superiority but I am sure you have a good reason!?! From my little ant life perspective I hope that real hard working people will never lose our voice...
     
  6. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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    The latest ridiculous, juvenile moniker is that we are a bunch of "hooligans" Happy Thanksgiving!
     
  7. Alex Miles

    Alex Miles Beach Comber

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    Mputnal,
    I'm by no means rich.
    I would never look to "squash people like ants". (See, these attempted "word pictures" of yours don't work on people like me)
    I'm definitely no power broker.
    I was not paid or hired by anybody in this matter. Now, you on the other hand...
    I'm very tolerant of all respectful persons.
    I never insisted on credibility. Just offered food for thought. Somethin to chew on, around your own Thanksgiving table.
    Originally, to be honest, I used say I was for "customary use". As I have watched this unfold over the last few years, I've quietly come to my own conclusions. Now I know what that "CU" term really means and its long-term ramifications. For all of us. Including you. So I decided to speak up. My voice is just as valid as yours. Tolerate me.
    Alex
     
  8. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Alex Miles, why are you painting the picture of public recreational use supporters as being on the lower levels of existence? You should go back and read your own words and the words of those that support exclusive private beach enjoyment like yourself. Your picture of the people and your superior beliefs and wants for exclusivity are right here for everyone to read forever! You can hide your name from the people but we know who you are because YOU are telling us who you are with your own words! I am amazed at how disconnected you are from the people. We grumbled about the large exclusive buildings blocking our views but we tolerated it. None of us ants are protesting your mansions. But now you want exclusive private enjoyment of the beaches. You are insatiable. It will never be enough for you to have exclusive buildings, exclusive views and exclusive rights. You want it all! I just don't understand how you have convinced yourself in a mandate for exclusivity.
     
  9. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Alex Miles, why are you painting the picture of public recreational use supporters as being on the lower levels of existence? You should go back and read your own words and the words of those that support exclusive private beach enjoyment like yourself. Your picture of the people and your superior beliefs and wants for exclusivity are right here for everyone to read forever! You can hide your name from the people but we know who you are because YOU are telling us who you are with your own words! I am amazed at how disconnected you are from the people. We grumbled about the large exclusive buildings blocking our views but we tolerated it. None of us ants are protesting your mansions. But now you want exclusive private enjoyment of the beaches. You are insatiable. It will never be enough for you to have exclusive buildings, exclusive views and exclusive rights. You want it all! I just don't understand how you have convinced yourself in a mandate for exclusivity.
     
  10. Stone Cold J

    Stone Cold J Beach Lover

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    Where in this post did Alex call you a hooligan?

    Alex provided some great questions for serious discussion and your reply is that you are being called “hooligan”? Why should the decision criteria to determine who is allowed on private property be changed from the private property owners (who have made this decision from time immemorial) to the BCC (who tried to TAKE this right in 2016)?

    BTW we are still waiting on your reply as the leader of FBFA (a plaintiff in the lawsuit against hundreds of property owners).

    WHY it is reasonable to remove property rights from legally deeded private property owners which have NEVER challenged prior to 2016 by the BCC

    WHO has shown going to every single parcel in the 26 mile beach from the mean high tide line to the dunes is without interruption (note: there are numerous cases which show this has been interrupted, such as decades old trespassing cases and the 2008 BCC Edgewater Court Order)

    WHEN did this issue become WITHOUT DISPUTE as specified in the County Lawsuit?
     
  11. 30A Skunkape

    30A Skunkape Mr. Small Box

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    Middle name. I don't give a rat's rectum what he thinks, truth is truth. And you might want to refer to him as Govnuh, or you might not make his Christmas card list.:wave:
     
  12. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Oh my goodness. I think a hooligan would be an improvement over an "obnoxious two faced jerk" or "predatory pervs" etc. Your nasty image of the people are in your own words and you still don't see it. It is like you have a complete disconnect from the people. People are generally good at behavior. There are exceptions of course but when you compare all the respectful beach user enjoyment over our entire human history I think you will find a very very very small fraction of the people disrespecting and misbehaving. I challenge you to find one disrespectful public beach user in even 10,000 public beach users. Please don't include the few bfo's who rant and rave about having to share the beach. It would skew the numbers :)
     
  13. BlueMtnBeachVagrant

    BlueMtnBeachVagrant Beach Fanatic

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    Hmmm.....it’s what EVERY private property owner (or renter thereof) is GUARANTEED under the United States Constitution, rich or poor. You think that you have the right to use our property without permission because you believe you are morally superior.

    Tell me if I missed something that doesn’t include your previous words:

    selfishness
    superior beliefs
    power brokers
    building blocking views or exclusive views
    exclusion is what rich people want
    disconnected from the people
    not using your real name
    individual power believes in their greatness over people
    sharing the enjoyment
    true greatness does not hide their identity
    you believe in your greatness
    attacking the people
    people who hide their name
    abuse of power
    higher purpose

    On and on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  14. Alex Miles

    Alex Miles Beach Comber

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    I love social media. I am learning so much about humans every day. Mputnal avoided the whole point of my post. Of course. He didn't bother to answer a single one of the key questions. Instead deflected to a minor side comment about "predatory pervs". (Which btw, Sheriff's office will confirm there are some real creeps in our area. Who would be naive enough to think they never go to the beach? And, why is Watersound locked?) Mputnal just needs to have the last words. Tossed like a salad.
    Also, I am completely fascinated to see who took these questions so personally.
    Ask yourself why.
    Add that to your Thanksgiving conversation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  15. kayti elliott

    kayti elliott Beach Lover

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    You and "Surfer Dude" have already decided that, right? He addressed me as "kayti anonymous", so name calling is not reserved for the infidels. And I applaud people who have become rich, like restaurant owners who built their businesses from the ground up. And for the record, I've always wanted to be able to surf. But, hey' go ahead and have the last word. You're good at that, aren't you?
     
  16. jodiFL

    jodiFL Beach Fanatic

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    Think that was about the time that all the beachfront owners were scrambling to shore up the "cliffs" in front of their property and we had a commissioner with a seawall side business that was more than happy to push "permits" through without going through the state like they were supposed to.
     
  17. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Yes I think you missed
     
  18. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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    “Hooligan” fake, anonymous Reggie Gaskins words from an earlier ridiculous post
     
  19. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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    Welcome to the thread Alex! Is this your real name or a moniker?

    By Dave Rauschkolb | Guest Columnist

    Those power brokers intent on denying the public’s right to use and enjoy our beach as we have since time immemorial are determined to paint this as a private property rights issue. Customary use is not an attack against private property rights; it is an affirmation that regardless of ownership of the sand we all have a right to access, use and enjoy our shared coastal American border.

    “No entity, regardless of ownership, may deny or exclude Americans or international visitors from freely and lawfully accessing and using our American beaches from the dune line to the mean high tide waterline.” These words should be all that is needed in a federal or state law.

    Private property in the conventional sense, beyond our coastal borders is not in dispute. Reams of legal and layman’s arguments have been and are being written to paint non-beachfront owners’ use of our beaches as an attack on private property. It is not because our beaches are very different from conventional private property.

    We all own private property and the law is clear on Americans’ right to preserve and protect their private property. That is rarely if ever in dispute. The reason this issue IS in dispute is because we have truly shared our beaches for centuries. The claim of exclusion on beaches, couched in private property rights arguments is a fairly recent development in American history.

    We have a shared coastal heritage on our beaches. Clearly our coasts have value, as the closer one purchases to a beach the values are highest. The value and strength of coastal economies depend on the use of our beaches for all. For a finite group of citizens to claim exclusion of our beaches to the rest of all Americans is an affront to all non beachfront-owning Americans.

    Those powerful and well-funded people wanting to change a balance that has existed a very, very long time bitterly claim their private property is being taken away. No. They purchased the convenience of being steps from the beach and the view. They can’t build on the sand and there is no tax assessments directly attached to that sand. It is not private property in the conventional sense as it applies to all other land that is private property.

    No, this is not about private property, it is about excluding all of us from enjoying and using our most treasured and beloved beaches. Our beaches, the shifting sands of our common Coastal American heritage. Perhaps, besides it not being buildable or taxable, it could be argued that the sandy areas of our beaches may never be called “private” because the land they purchased is constantly on the move by tidal action, wind and storms. How can they claim ownership and exclusion on shifting sand they can’t contain?
     
  20. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    Alex Miles I have been around a block or two with you power brokers. You are not asking questions for civil discussion, community feedback or anything positive. You have one point. One principle. One purpose here on this forum. This is about whether or not the beaches should be shared enjoyment or private enjoyment. Or as you put it exclusivity. All the other stuff is bravo sierra. I have offered more than a few times to sponsor a community gathering like a redneck fish fry and class it up with Reggie/Regina's favorite and vastly superior drink so those questions could be asked and answered by real people. Those questions coming from you and the other power brokers are nothing but a trap. You do not care about an answer for those questions. You hide your name. You post nothing but shame. It is your game. It is really lame. If you really want answers to those questions why not show up in person. I wonder if you would have the spinal fortitude to ask anyone if they are a two faced jerk or a predatory perv to their face. I wonder. Just something to think about at Thanksgiving :)

    Kathryn, I am not sure what you mean. I have no judgement about you or anyone else. I might disagree with you. I might not understand you. But I do not judge you. I am a small business person and have been around the economic block or two. I understand how our economic system works and it is not working fairly or equally. Reggie/Regina even admits this. Elite wealth does not pay the same fraction of their income as you and I. Many have off shore bank accounts or take advantage of loop holes that are not available for you and I. I do not protest their wealth and I do not admire their wealth. I am too old. Too tired to care that much anymore. As long as they leave me alone I am good with their success. But now they are wanting private enjoyment of a unique and limited resource that has been shared since the beginning. They shame the people and type bold statements meant to drown out the little ant voices. Stand up for yourself...
     

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