Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Reggie Gaskins, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    jodiFL, many understand what you and non-beachfront owners believe but why do you believe it? What information do you base your conclusion? Just because we have done that way for years is not a valid legal criteria. The multiple custom criteria does not include the affect on the local economy.

    Why do you think quiet title is a nefarious (defined as wicked, evil, or criminal) way in order to claim title to property they are not entitled to?

    I think your first premise is that the property before quiet title was public property to start with. Patently false. Do you know for a fact it was public property before the judicial quiet title action? Lets take Blue Mountain Beach where CUers decry a celebrity property quiet title. I think because it’s easy and to get the most publicity for their misinformation.

    Have you or Dave Rauschkolb, or attorney Daniel Uhlfelder seen the 1948 BMB Subdivision No. 1 plat? It’s public record. Quiet title is a court proceeding heard by a judge. Like CUnCourt Judge Green. You don’t just pay $600 like Dave Rauschkolb has claimed and you have a new title. Do you know who the judge was for the BMB quiet title action? One guess. Have you seen the owner’s quiet title court documents and evidence?

    The BMB developer platted his private property and included “BEACH” seaward of individual parcels on the plat. Not Public BEACH. Not a dedication as public BEACH. The short version as I understand; the court determined that the developer's private BWB Subdivision No. 1 BEACH property is included in the landward property owner’s title. So the quiet title was from the private development owner to the private property parcel. NEVER was the BEACH public. Some BMB Subdivision No 1 owners have quieted their title and others have not. It is not automatic. The parcels that do not extend to the MHWL are is still BMB Subdivision No 1 private property.

    If you agree that the BMB BEACH has always been private property would you agree that the private property owners have the right to exclusive enjoyment of their property unless FIRST a court determines that public customary use of private property is Constitutional and meets the multiple ancient English (not American) common law custom criteria? Can you explain the legal definition of ancient common law custom? What about the other criteria? If even one criterion is not proven; customary use of private property fails.

    There are 26 miles of Walton beaches. About 50% or 13 miles or 68,640 feet and all 26 miles of beach foreshore seaward of the MHWL is available to the public (and BCC authorized vendors) Are you saying you can’t find a public beach or you just want the covenant private beaches the property owners have shared with you and the public over the decades?

    If you think quiet title is nefarious and Walton BCC had legal grounds to stop or reverse quiet title, don’t you think Walton BCC would?

    Thanks for sharing your belief but can you explain what justifies your belief? What is your belief based on? Facts? Law? Because Dave Rauschkolb, or Daniel Uhlfelder said so?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  2. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Interesting Dave Rauschkolb, attorney Daniel Uhlfelder or anyone have not disputed my information of the Vizcaya private beachfront and two pedestrian easements. Anyone call Brian Kellenberger?
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy Vizcaya private property Plat
    I’m not an attorney but I take the time to study the law and the facts...maybe I’m wrong and I'll learn something along the way. Facts not unsupported opinions please.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  3. Leader of the Banned

    Leader of the Banned Beach Fanatic

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    Maybe you anti-CUers should adopt the slogan "CU-Not Today!" :rolling::floor:
     
  4. jodiFL

    jodiFL Beach Fanatic

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    @FloridaBeachBum ..can you explain to me why anyone would need to sue for quiet title in the first place if your deed clearly shows what you own? Is the title not clear to start with? Did the title company not do their job? I was required to get title insurance etc. when I bought my property. Are there any kind of liens on the property they are trying not to pay? There are alot of reasons to sue for quiet title...and they all come down to people trying to get something without due process.. (i.e. not paying liens, possible other owners, others with interest in said property).
     
  5. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    JodiFL, your question implies you have not read or understand the plat or legal documents I pointed out. That is the point of quiet title litigation! The title/deed is NOT clear. The judge quiets and clears the title to the private property owner by the preponderance of the EVIDENCE. Quiet title litigation (not a $400 form you pay for) has been between the two private property owners. BMB developer and the parcel owners. NOT the Walton BCC or public and the private property owner. Usually because an old plat was unclear. Not sure what a lien has to do with the title. The litigation IS the DUE PROCESS and a JUDGE decides. Do you still want to guess who the celebrity BMB Subdivision No. 1 quiet title judge was?

    A title search from the US land patent to the plat could show the public has an interest in private property. But don’t you think if there were Walton BCC or somebody would have done that by now? Why risk MILLIONS of Walton tax payer money on an lengthy litigation based on an ancient English common law doctrine of custom? Educate yourself on the old English doctrine of custom. Educate yourself on Tona Rama. Don't take my or Dave Rauschkolb's or Daniel Uhlfelder's word for it. I'd debate Uhlfelder online any day on the doctrine of customary use.

    What do you want to believe? Legal real-property documents or a FBFA baseless made up PowerPoint slide? Please at least answer this question.
    Do you blindly believe Dave Rauschkolb or do you do your own research of the law and facts?

    I don’t expect you to change your belief based on what anyone says here. Do your own homework. It's hard work and takes time. It’s easy to want what you want without educating ones self when you have no real-property skin in the game and you’re not spending your own money to defend your property rights against a Walton BCC with unlimited tax payer money. Beachfront owners do not have that luxury and we are tired of the lies and misinformation repeated over and over again as if they are fact. There are over 4,500 beachfront owners out there that are not as familiar with the facts and only hear the intentional misinformation from the press, Florida Beaches for All and CU leaders like Dave Rauschkolb. CUnCourt. Florida Coastal Property Rights
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  6. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    This thread is representative of the effects of a two party political system doused with human greed and disrespect. Both sides are valid. Both sides are destroying a civil society over principle. Both sides are destroying the 30A brand. It is both sad and predictable. When we humans lose our will to compromise this is what happens and the consequences will divide people and hurt people. It is obvious that one side uses shame and disrespect along with Ancient English Law as a tactic and the other side uses power and influence to continue an unjust privilege. I really don't like using the word privilege because it has become a slogan of civil rights and even though it is true I believe it to me taken out of context almost as much as it is used appropriately.

    I do believe in property rights and I know that these property owners are tired of being shamed and disrespected for wanting control of the land that they bought and paid for. I understand the problems with all that but aren't you missing the bigger picture? You have to admit that it is easy to justify our good fortune but hard to justify how our economic system is rigged in your favor. Go ahead and stick with the principle and others will resent. I wish sharing and generosity was a driving human will but apparently you feel justified to defend your property rights. I do understand but feel very sad for you because you are missing something.

    I do believe in Customary Use and I understand the benefits to a just society but do you have to shame and disrespect everyone that disagrees with you? I understand the resentment and it is justified but we need to do be more civil. The tactics that you are using hurt people and it is just plain wrong. There is no reason for it because I want to believe that there was a civil solution to the problems. Now you have forced property owners to defend their property ownership. Many of you hide behind false names and throw out insults at a level that is damaging to society. I think you are also missing the bigger picture.

    I feel like property owners will not attack me personally for my beliefs but Customary Use supporters will ridicule, diminish and shame for having any opinion different than theirs. I consider myself a progressive but why do you think people like me will support conservative values? Until the liberal side understands this they will keep losing...
     
  7. jodiFL

    jodiFL Beach Fanatic

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    So you are admitting that there is a clouded title? Why would anyone buy something (property,car or whatever) that doesnt have a clear insurable title to it? Not sure what a lien has to do with it? If a property has any kind of lien on it (tax,construction,mortgage) it is a "clouded title". As for the "preponderance of the EVIDENCE'...what about the others that havent been properly notified about the "judgement" and havent had a chance to respond? (BFOs know all about that little issue). Do you think that posting something in The Defuniak Herald is going to a proper way to notify any people that may have interest in property their grandparents left them 50 years ago that live in LA,Bham,etc? What about a mortgage company in Louisiana that didnt get paid in the foreclosure fiasco several years ago?
     
  8. Dave Rauschkolb

    Dave Rauschkolb Beach Fanatic

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    5 County Commissioners in Walton County voted 5 to zero to affirm Customary Use as an ordinance. 5 County Commissioners voted 5 to zero to proceed with the process set forth in HB 631. 14,000 people signed affidavits affirming they have customarily used our beaches dispite claims private beachfront owners dispute that use. It's in the courts and we will see the outcome. I am confident those who have used the beaches as they always have will have their customary use affirmed regardless of private ownership. It's pretty simple. We will tell anyone willing to listen what we believe. We all have a right to continue using our beaches as we always have. The opposing view disagrees. They say the beaches have always been private. It's a matter of opinion. Sorry if you folks feel overwhelmed with sentiment towards customary use; more people just believe what we believe; that will always be the case. I'm sorry you feel outnumbered on this subject; the truth is you will always be outnumbered; just wait until this issue enters the national dialog. We are standing up for our beliefs and you, yours.

    There will always be bad actors, out of control with personal attacks. We don't condone that, nor can we control that as people say and do things on impulse without thinking; plenty of examples of Private Beachfront owners treating beachgoers with disrespect. We, Florida Beaches For All, do not personally attack people and have treated those with private property on the beaches with respect. We will defend ourselves when attacked though. I am sure those folks at Florida Coastal Property Rights don't condone bad actors on the other side either.

    You have all heard me on the record many times in the public realm in many BCC/County meetings vocalize that we should treat each other with respect. When we participated in the Stand your Sand events I asked participants to conduct themselves with respect and they did with no incidents. I have been called all sorts of names and lists of Customary use advocates have been published as though they are criminals on the Watchdog Blog (recently removed). Attempts to intimidate any and all Customary Use advocates that number in the tens of thousands have and will fail. Attempts to silence hard working Realtors on their opinions supporting Customary Use have and will fail. Attempts to call us all liars who just need to accept private beaches will fail. It's pretty clear we are all in this for the long run. I have had, for years civil discussions with opposing opinions; many of whom are my friends. We just disagree with you Reggie Gaskins or whoever you are with your fake name and all you others who don't stand out of the shadows as yourselves.

    This utterly silly attempt at trying to paint CU supporters as ruining the legacy of 30A is truly ridiculous and yet another desperate tactic to silence the voices of ordinary beachgoers who have used the beaches for generations. The actions of a handful of private beachfront owners, political operatives, politicians and past politicians and lawyers going all the way back to the stop beach nourishment movement are responsible for any legacy damage that has and may occur. Our beaches have and aways have defined our 30A legacy and the actions of the few have damaged that legacy. It's about OUR beaches and we are going to work on many tracks regardless of intimidation, shaming or whatever may come to affirm our rights to continue using our beaches. A Judge in Walton County will decide, then many others will decide in other courts. Or, perhaps the people of Florida will decide. One way or the other this goes far beyond any of us. We hope to restore our Walton County beaches to their natural balance; shared, Customary Use. That's our aim and it's our opinion, that we have always had a right to those beaches and nothing and no one is going to stop us from using whatever legal means to that end.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  9. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Thanks for your prospective. Your premise seems to be beachfront property owners are rich selfish and undeserving of their labor or success with power and influence to contradict the law. I do not mind sharing our beachfront but that is my choice; not the BCC or Dave Rauschkolb's "Your sand is my sand" silly ditty.
    Our family bought beachfront here many decades ago for hundreds of thousands - not millions of dollars when 30A was an unknown paradise. I have a day job. Our family is not unique. We’ve paid much more in property taxes over the years than we paid for the property. Our good fortune is because we worked hard and were able to purchase beachfront at market value that we pay taxes on for that privilege. Nobody gave us anything and we shared our beach over the decades.
    The Walton BCC is trying to take our Constitutional rights (Walton BCC have the burden of proof) and 650+ of the 1192 beachfront parcel owners have the will and privilege to able to defend our rights with our own hard earned money. That makes me and I’m guessing many of the 4,500 other beachfront owners angry. This about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness embodied in the Constitution that protects every individual private property owner. If you want to point fingers point at the inept Walton political leaders now and over the decades; not the beachfront owners.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  10. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Dave, more rhetoric? "silence the voices of ordinary beachgoers"? We want you to tell us on what basis do you support customary use of private property? So far it's been because customary use of private property just has been. Ancient is only one of many criteria of custom that the preponderance of evidence has to prove. You inform and repeat your rhetoric and polls and we'll present property rights with the verifiable facts.

    Politicians can not declare/affirm customary use of private property. That's why Florida Statue 163.035 was passed. I'll see your 5 Walton Commissioners and raise with a 2018 state legislature super majority including local FL Rep Brad Drake invalidating any county's customary use ordinance (that had not been to court FIRST). Polls have no legal meaning; unless you are a politician. A million affidavits will not mean anything unless the judge finds that any of them comply with the rules of evidence. Attorney Daniel Ulhfelder should be able to tell you that. There is NO right to use private property owners have had since 1776 and today without consent. Even BCC declared customary-use uses is very limited. Nine (I think) activities that shall be at least ancient, reasonable, without interruption, and free from dispute. Ancient English common law custom has more than four criteria. Can you or Daniel Ulhfelder explain these criteria for us please? CUnCourt.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  11. kayti elliott

    kayti elliott Beach Lover

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    I'm not a beachfront owner or someone who really has a dog in the hunt, but I'm ready for this matter to be settled by the courts. After reading most of the arguments from both sides, it seems to be a question of whether English common law trumps established laws. I kind of thought the Revolutionary War did away with the ancient laws of England.
     
  12. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    No. Admitting nothing. You are confusing clear title with a clouded title IMO. In the Walton quiet title litigation between private property owners there was NO encumbrance that might invalidate or impair or cloud the parcel owner's title.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  13. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Not all common law but laws that contradict the Constitution of the United States like the ancient English common law of custom. The motion that customary use contradicts the Constitution (5th and 14th amendments) is in front of Judge Green now. Thanks.
     
  14. jodiFL

    jodiFL Beach Fanatic

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    Are you sure this is the case for ALL quiet title cases in Walton County or just the one in BMB?
     
  15. BeachSandpiper

    BeachSandpiper Beach Comber

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    "We, Florida Beaches For All, do not personally attack people and have treated those with private property on the beaches with respect." REALLY? Uh, what about all of the doxxing that Daniel Uhlfelder (FBFA's attorney) and you have done? Only just recently FCPR President was doxxed by FBFA on Twitter... That is not respect. I know of no BFPO who has posted personal addresses of CU Advocates on any social media site. Yet there is a history of FBFA doing that. So, I think you need to correct your statement about not making personal attacks. Doxxing has no place in this discussion. As Chairman of FBFA you control that. So stop it!
     
  16. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Are you sure this is NOT the case for ANY beachfront quiet title cases in Walton county? Repeat, IF Walton BBC could stop or reverse the private beachfront property quiet title of public property; don't you think they would? Walton beachfront quiet titles I know of, which ones do you know that do not, are between private property owners. Not public property. Powerpoint slides do not change that fact.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  17. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Don't forget Dave Rauschkolb's 11/14/2018 [retaliatory IMO] Walton Sheriff Police Report, Case: 2018-00167899, that people called Dave names and "felt threatened by some posts" against James Lince that was dismissed by the State Attorney's Office. I think Sheriff's report is on the internet.
    Customary Use Will Destroy Our 30A Legacy
     
  18. Teresa

    Teresa SoWal Guide Staff Member

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    While I can agree with much of your thoughtful post, I do not think Customary Use is a partisan issue. The people who I have seen working on behalf of South Walton to protect our way of life are from all political backgrounds. So many friends who I know well have passionately come together on Customary Use, a common bond because of their mutual love for our beach town and concern for its future. Those who demean our vocal community members are merely attempting to silence them. It won't work. We're so fortunate to have such active people caring for South Walton and standing up in a place where we don't have much government representation. It's truly a blessing and makes me feel proud of my community regardless of the outcome.

    The CU meetings, the diligence of groups and individuals, the outpouring of support - donating to the cause, volunteering countless hours, attending meetings, writing letters to our representatives, coordinating and organizing and coming together... Good people unafraid to get involved to protect access to the world's most beautiful beaches for our children and their children is everything. It is a common bond. It is our future.

    CU is just about the ONLY thing these days that has brought people together. It may not seem so on this thread which was started with the intention of division, false/twisted information and just bad vibe. Don't fall for it. It is trashing our community while accusing CU supporters of doing same. I call BULLSHIT.

    The Facebook group members that started this discussion to advance their agenda and false narrative is very small and not representative of our beaches or town. Alternative facts are not facts.
     
  19. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    It's interesting that property right supporters can say the EXACT same thing; as has been said in previous posts. Your perspective does NOT include property law rights and the common law doctrine of ancient English custom is about the law. Not politics or the economy. What is an alternative fact? Speak up, don't be silent and explain the verifiable facts of your position on customary use of private property. Please!
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  20. mputnal

    mputnal Beach Fanatic

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    I agree with you FBB. Thank you for treating me with respect however I do believe that you enjoy a privilege that others will not have even though they work just as hard as you and your family.

    I agree with you Dave. Unfortunately you disrespect by using words like "silly" and "ridiculous" etc. I will continue to disagree with your tactic of moral superiority. In my opinion it is hypocritical. Believe it or not I am on the side of Customary Use but not the tactics being used.

    Teresa I hear what you are saying and I know that you try very hard to be respectful but one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch. For me it is about the whole bunch of apples not just CU or Property Rights. Does it really have to all or nothing? Is it just not possible to reason with property owners at all?
     

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