Something similar happened right in in SOWAL a few years ago. Some folks had been using a part of a lot for egress (their driveway) for decades. When the new owners of the lot tried to fence it off they went to court and lost 1/4 acre to those folks. "Customary Use"
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
- Thread starter Reggie Gaskins
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Was that at Butler School?
No this was near Pt. Washington. But I think it is more common than ones would like us to believe.
Dreamer, Auburn Fan and Blue Mountain Beach Vagrant I wonder if you would be willing to explain why you disagree with my take on this thread. I just want to understand why you side with the power brokers (aka beach exclusion-ist). When I started posting on this thread it was because I felt like finally someone is standing up to disrespect. I think that is where you are coming from. As part of this forum community (minutely small) I have noticed a general disrespect that I believe inhibits the ability to form compromising solutions. So, I first thought that the power brokers were members of this community that also believed that we are losing our civility to disrespectful behavior. However after testing my belief with the power brokers I began to sense their belief in manifest destiny. I have found that humans are very good at justifying destructive behavior with a sense of purpose and these power brokers were very good at this. I became self aware of an underlying message of purpose in their posts: Property rights is the manifest destiny of successful individuals. This theme began to resonate very negative emotions because if we allow the justification of an unequal and unfair distribution of the beach because that is our purpose then it leads to a very few people with those resources and a lot of people excluded from those resources. Is that what you want? This is not a fear emotion but a real consequence of beach exclusion versus public beach.
The power broker arguments that BFO's have always shared the beach and therefore we The People just want to take something from them is just not the truth. Yes some beach users are disrespectful and that is also the truth. The power brokers again tried to create a sense of purpose with their position to rid the beach of disrespectful people. At first I believed that is a good purpose (and it is) but I soon realized that is not what the power brokers desire. Suddenly, it was all clear that this was not about community, not about property rights and not about disrespectful beach users. No this was about a deep seated belief that human purpose is about success which they define as power over The People. Just think about it. Which side offered compromise? Which side believed in the power of exclusion? Which side believes in principle over good will?
Listen humans do get emotional and say things that hurt others. Of course that is wrong. But it is also wrong to believe that our primary purpose in life is to own and control such an important resource like our beach. It is important to look beyond the words and become self aware of a higher human purpose. Hope and happiness is all that any of us want right? Beach users go to the beach NOT because they want something that is not theirs but because it gives us hope and happiness. Does that not make any sense to you? If not just explain because I want to understand your purpose in supporting beach exclusion. If you disconnect your beliefs from either political party and just ask yourself what feels right or what feels wrong it helps to see the bigger picture of life. It is easy to let politics think for us or tell us what is right and wrong but you have something inside you that has much more authority in terms of purpose: your conscience. At least I hope we all have one
The power broker arguments that BFO's have always shared the beach and therefore we The People just want to take something from them is just not the truth. Yes some beach users are disrespectful and that is also the truth. The power brokers again tried to create a sense of purpose with their position to rid the beach of disrespectful people. At first I believed that is a good purpose (and it is) but I soon realized that is not what the power brokers desire. Suddenly, it was all clear that this was not about community, not about property rights and not about disrespectful beach users. No this was about a deep seated belief that human purpose is about success which they define as power over The People. Just think about it. Which side offered compromise? Which side believed in the power of exclusion? Which side believes in principle over good will?
Listen humans do get emotional and say things that hurt others. Of course that is wrong. But it is also wrong to believe that our primary purpose in life is to own and control such an important resource like our beach. It is important to look beyond the words and become self aware of a higher human purpose. Hope and happiness is all that any of us want right? Beach users go to the beach NOT because they want something that is not theirs but because it gives us hope and happiness. Does that not make any sense to you? If not just explain because I want to understand your purpose in supporting beach exclusion. If you disconnect your beliefs from either political party and just ask yourself what feels right or what feels wrong it helps to see the bigger picture of life. It is easy to let politics think for us or tell us what is right and wrong but you have something inside you that has much more authority in terms of purpose: your conscience. At least I hope we all have one
To mputnal, those of us fortunate enough to have beach front property, we are certainly NOT the power brokers to whom you incessantly refer, and never identify. I would assume you'd consider the developers and some local merchants that want more tourists as the power brokers that are pushing for Customary Use. And they NEED Customary Use to enhance their respective portfolios and future monetary gains.
Your logic, while calm, is certainly not on point. Or logical.
Your logic, while calm, is certainly not on point. Or logical.
I don't want greedy people raping the beach. Or greedy people putting a chastity belt on it.
SUP View, of course you disagree with my logic! Your truth is in the power over others. My logic is in the search for a better truth. A truth where people see the best in others not worse. You have convinced yourself that The People are all takers just wanting something for nothing. It is a common theme thrown about in politics. I for one no longer buy it or eat it. Your identity is hidden. Your truth is obvious. Buy the resource. Control The People.
If you are going to complain about developers and merchants and monetary gains please share with us about your good fortune and truth that allows you to own and exclude people from the beach. I can live and let live so I do not envy your good fortune. Neither do The People. You are wrong about my logic. I can only conclude that you are wrong about Truth.
I ask you beach exclusion-ist about compromise. Instead of finding a way to keep the beach open to the public you misdirected the conversation. It is obvious that it is unfathomable for you to compromise on exclusion. Your right to exclude people from the beach is the opposite of community, goodwill or conscience. You have disconnected your conscience from The People at least on this subject. I believe that if you win the right to exclude people from the beach it will not give you that feeling of success that you think it will. You still have time to compromise on exclusion while getting many of the things you say are important: beach density, beach behavior, vending, future development etc. I don't believe you care about those things as much as you care about beach exclusion. Prove me wrong...
If you are going to complain about developers and merchants and monetary gains please share with us about your good fortune and truth that allows you to own and exclude people from the beach. I can live and let live so I do not envy your good fortune. Neither do The People. You are wrong about my logic. I can only conclude that you are wrong about Truth.
I ask you beach exclusion-ist about compromise. Instead of finding a way to keep the beach open to the public you misdirected the conversation. It is obvious that it is unfathomable for you to compromise on exclusion. Your right to exclude people from the beach is the opposite of community, goodwill or conscience. You have disconnected your conscience from The People at least on this subject. I believe that if you win the right to exclude people from the beach it will not give you that feeling of success that you think it will. You still have time to compromise on exclusion while getting many of the things you say are important: beach density, beach behavior, vending, future development etc. I don't believe you care about those things as much as you care about beach exclusion. Prove me wrong...
On this thread many Constitutional property rights supporters brought up many facts and questions about CU, for any beachfront owner that was interested about what CU is and is not. Any CU believer still care to list and define the multiple ancient legal criteria of an archaic English doctrine of custom? The Walton CU attorney Theriaque listed some historical criteria and was posted earlier in the thread.
I stopped replying to the baseless CU opinions, CU feel-good emotional beliefs proclaimed as logic and “truth”, we v them propaganda, and EZ attacks on property rights because everyone has an ....... and opinion and you can’t fix ......... Does “The People” not include all American citizens regardless if you reside in Walton or Tallahassee or Tennessee or own beachfront property? Does American law not apply to all of the American People”? Does the government (legislative, judicial, and executive branches) represent all American people and protect individual rights and private property rights as defined by the Constitution and rule of law or just “the people” defined by CU believers?
Mark Twain said; 'Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.' Mark Twain was a pseudonym for famous writer Samuel Langhorne Clemens. Samuel’s pseudonym did not make his observations any less valid.
Funny no one questions the CU believers anonymous user names or beliefs; just property rights user pseudonyms? Hypocritical and irrelevant.
What is the difference between the “good fortune” of owning bayfront or beachfront (or any private property); other than one is more desirable than the other? The self defined political and economic philosophy “power” psycho babble opinions makes one feel good I suppose but is not based on the facts or law.
“Give me free beaches or give me death!” Really? What about the 13 miles of free publicly available South Walton beaches and 825 miles of FL foreshore beach? For my deeded property to the MHWL (or landward of the ECL) - Don’t Tread on Me!
CU believers can call Reggie “delusional” but no one can describe CU believers baseless opinions as delusional without being censored on this thread within minutes [Page 63]? Sad. “Just stating the facts.”
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Facts please. CU believers can post vague references to unknown court cases (from Tallahassee?) and SoWal (Pt Washington?) about deeds, fences, surveys claiming customary use victory? Sounds like a prescriptive easement or adverse possession cases and I’m not even an attorney. But CU believers question and attack property rights supporters court cases? Hypocritical.
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
I invite anyone to post any legal case that a court ruled any private property in Walton or Leon counties were subject to customary use. Otherwise the opinions are wrong, not credible, or relevant to the thread.
CU believer can post about a court case that has nothing to do with CU and declare CU victory? Wrong, not credible, relevant, unbelievable.
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
CU believer posts an old NW FL [fake] News about Destin’s lack of law enforcement like it’s new news? Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Simple solution, property owners obtain a survey of the ECL (or MHWL) and property boundaries, post the boundary line corners, just like described in the 2015 Walton Sheriff trespass SOP and law enforcement enforce the law. Not enforcing the law is a dereliction of the Sheriff’s public duty.
Let the CU baseless opinions and shout downs begin.
CUnCourt
I stopped replying to the baseless CU opinions, CU feel-good emotional beliefs proclaimed as logic and “truth”, we v them propaganda, and EZ attacks on property rights because everyone has an ....... and opinion and you can’t fix ......... Does “The People” not include all American citizens regardless if you reside in Walton or Tallahassee or Tennessee or own beachfront property? Does American law not apply to all of the American People”? Does the government (legislative, judicial, and executive branches) represent all American people and protect individual rights and private property rights as defined by the Constitution and rule of law or just “the people” defined by CU believers?
Mark Twain said; 'Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.' Mark Twain was a pseudonym for famous writer Samuel Langhorne Clemens. Samuel’s pseudonym did not make his observations any less valid.
Funny no one questions the CU believers anonymous user names or beliefs; just property rights user pseudonyms? Hypocritical and irrelevant.
What is the difference between the “good fortune” of owning bayfront or beachfront (or any private property); other than one is more desirable than the other? The self defined political and economic philosophy “power” psycho babble opinions makes one feel good I suppose but is not based on the facts or law.
“Give me free beaches or give me death!” Really? What about the 13 miles of free publicly available South Walton beaches and 825 miles of FL foreshore beach? For my deeded property to the MHWL (or landward of the ECL) - Don’t Tread on Me!
CU believers can call Reggie “delusional” but no one can describe CU believers baseless opinions as delusional without being censored on this thread within minutes [Page 63]? Sad. “Just stating the facts.”
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Facts please. CU believers can post vague references to unknown court cases (from Tallahassee?) and SoWal (Pt Washington?) about deeds, fences, surveys claiming customary use victory? Sounds like a prescriptive easement or adverse possession cases and I’m not even an attorney. But CU believers question and attack property rights supporters court cases? Hypocritical.
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
I invite anyone to post any legal case that a court ruled any private property in Walton or Leon counties were subject to customary use. Otherwise the opinions are wrong, not credible, or relevant to the thread.
CU believer can post about a court case that has nothing to do with CU and declare CU victory? Wrong, not credible, relevant, unbelievable.
Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
CU believer posts an old NW FL [fake] News about Destin’s lack of law enforcement like it’s new news? Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy
Simple solution, property owners obtain a survey of the ECL (or MHWL) and property boundaries, post the boundary line corners, just like described in the 2015 Walton Sheriff trespass SOP and law enforcement enforce the law. Not enforcing the law is a dereliction of the Sheriff’s public duty.
Let the CU baseless opinions and shout downs begin.
CUnCourt
Just the facts?
OK Dave, mputal, and others, please answer following:
1. Florida Property Rights, as passed by the State and posted on the Walton County Web Site, documents "Right #2" is the Right to use and enjoy your property, and "Right #3" as the Right to exclude others from your property.
True or False?
2. A Walton County Property Owner has Property Rights granted by the State of Florida as posted on the Walton County Web Site
True or False?
3. Unlimited Access to day camping on private property against the will of the property owner in Walton County has been interrupted
True or False?
4. Unlimited Access to day camping on private property against the will of the property owners has been, and remains, under dispute.
True or False?
FBB property rights is not the issue here. This thread was about community and who is to blame for the change along 30A. You say it was the developers, The People (which include local government) and CU. You blame everyone but yourself for building on the sand dunes blocking views and access. You say it is your right to do so. You keep pivoting to beach exclusion as the only value that matters. You refer to yourself no different than Mark Twain using a fake name. You are no Mark Twain Sir! Stay on subject. How does beach exclusion benefit anyone but yourself?
You are going down a new path of accusatory destructive behavior. Are we your subjects and you the King? I did not support CU until I understood your message of power and authority over others. You call us fools and baseless creatures existing in your domain. You attack The People's character. You are not honest or correct about The People. You have sold your conscience to a destiny that benefits only you. We The People are learning why not to trust any of your words. You have nothing to offer this community but conflict. You seem to enjoy it.
Stone Cold J you have proven how easy it is for you to try and deceive us with case law. Why would anyone feel compelled to believe that you have any authority to ask any more questions?
You are going down a new path of accusatory destructive behavior. Are we your subjects and you the King? I did not support CU until I understood your message of power and authority over others. You call us fools and baseless creatures existing in your domain. You attack The People's character. You are not honest or correct about The People. You have sold your conscience to a destiny that benefits only you. We The People are learning why not to trust any of your words. You have nothing to offer this community but conflict. You seem to enjoy it.
Stone Cold J you have proven how easy it is for you to try and deceive us with case law. Why would anyone feel compelled to believe that you have any authority to ask any more questions?