Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

[Jenksy]

I have to laugh at all this, especially the BS that Martha's Vineyard is substantially different from the beaches here. By law, what difference does it make? The fact is that in places like Martha's Vineyard, where only the elite are allowed on the beaches, the "elite" are quite different than the "capitalist pigs" who want to bar all the good people from enjoying "The People's Beach". The elite ritzy New England foks are the super rich who only claim to be socialists.

How inane. Your use of "elite" as a dirty word reveals your washed brain.

All beaches everywhere should be public - New England, Thailand, Palm Beach, Majorca and South Walton. Does that make me a socialist?

 

[mputnal]

Laughing is good! I agree with you about the super rich being "elite". It does not matter if you consider yourself a capitalist or socialist neither should be called pigs or worse. The super wealthy elite have disconnected from The People. That is all I am saying. All the words and labels and name calling is the BS. The BS pie is when a political party want you to believe that The People from the other political party are losers just wanting to take something you have or are a bunch of lazy bums. Trust me it is hard to disconnect ourselves from politics but if you can you will not see things in terms of capitalist or socialist, liberal or conservative and democrat or republican. You actually become a less angry realist!

I also agree that a beach is a beach but the weather is a factor in terms of use. Our State economy depends on tourism which depend on our white sandy beaches open and available to the public. When there were fewer people we did not have a problem. Ask one of the power brokers about manifest destiny and whether or not it was destined for our beaches to become crowded. We all share the blame for over crowded beaches. Overcrowding was inevitable. Anyway here we are and the questions are do we exclude The People or do we include The People with rules? I believe that Community good will is more important than private beaches. Easy for me to say because I don't own beach front property so I get it. I would like to believe that if I were a BPO I would feel good about sharing the beach with a respectful public. I would also take this opportunity to work with the county to manage density, vending and behavior. Getting angry is not productive. Eating the BS pie from power brokers is not healthy. Caring about principle over community good will is not sustainable. The People will complain and that is not smart. The only people pushing fear are the power brokers. CU supporters have acknowledged the need for the same rules that BPO's say are important like vending and access. The problem occurred when the power brokers started making this about your property rights to exclude people from the beach. It is much more going on here than property rights!

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Okay lets negotiate. I will give you the right to take $350,000.00 worth of beach sand from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. Using your "number" that would be about one five gallon bucket full of sand. To sweeten the deal I will throw in the bucket!

If you're trying to be humorous as a comedian, don't quit your day job.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Eating the BS pie from power brokers is not healthy.

CU folks have proven that they can make a much better and many, many more BS pies. I think at least two or three have come out of your oven.

The only people pushing fear are the power brokers.

Fear???? What fear (from these so-called power brokers)? What are CU folks shivering from - clear, well defined, legally recorded and constitutionally protected private property rights?

@mputnal, is it even possible for you to post something that doesn't use the following words or phrases?....
power brokers
The People
beach exclusion
super rich
elite

I believe that Community good will is more important than private beaches.

Good will is overrated. I think that's been proven beyond any shadow of a doubt by the way Walton County and the rest of the CU folks have treated beachfront private property owners. And honestly, you're not helping by your incessant need to pigeon hole all BFOs who want to protect their property in with some mysterious, nefarious, underground "power broker" group. And it's getting very old.

I'm thinking about starting up the Nazi stuff again. Still never received a condemnation regarding Uhlfelder's words....talking about Community good will. Geezzze Louizzze.

 

[mputnal]

BMBV Sorry I forgot that I have to explain my posts. I will try more paragraphs and see if that helps.

The BS pie comes from politics. Period. Both parties. I have to say that you may have evolved into a baker of the BS cake. Have your cake and eat it to if you want to. All I am saying is that politics makes you angry so it is not healthy.

Power broker fear tactics: You need to go back and read Reggie's, FBB's etc. post. I should not have to explain this one.

Really you did not even smile at my attempt at comedy? I laugh at your posts!

I believe that most BPO's are not a power broker. The characters in this thread are not from this community. Do you still believe they are?

Did you mean to say that Good Will is underrated? Surely you did not mean to imply that "all the world needs is hate sweet hate"!?!

 

[kayti elliott]

How inane. Your use of "elite" as a dirty word reveals your washed brain.

All beaches everywhere should be public - New England, Thailand, Palm Beach, Majorca and South Walton. Does that make me a socialist?

The difference between the rich in New England and the "activists" in South Walton is that the New England BFO's try to con us into believing that they are socialists. Some of the activists around here, really are. I'll never be able to be a "BFO" but I would never try to camp out in the back yard of someone who doesn't want me there. And we only have a "right" to what the constitution says we have a right to.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

The BS pie comes from politics. Period. Both parties. I have to say that you may have evolved into a baker of the BS cake. Have your cake and eat it to if you want to. All I am saying is that politics makes you angry so it is not healthy.

I don't give a damn about politics for the most part as it relates to me posting here on SoWal. That's why you hardly ever see me in the Lounge - nothing but bobble head vitriol there. And for the discussion here, I really don't care who is in political office. I would hope that the ideas and constitutionally protected principles that I profess here transcend that. So when you state that I'm angry, I must assume you're meaning from all the CU stuff and not politics.

BTW, my recent post on THIS THREAD regarding Obama buying into Martha's Vineyard was moved to the "Lounge" by admins although it had much, much more to do with customary use than it did with any politics in my opinion. I simply pointed out the home purchase because Obama, like Huckabee, is high profile and Martha's Vineyard is private for the most part. If the admins think that my post was political, then by your own admission, your posts really are and should be moved to the "Lounge" as well.

What I do give a damn about is my and everyone else's private property rights - yes, EVERYONE's, including yours. That should be crystal clear after more than 10 years of posting here on SoWal and responding to crap from people like you with absolutely nothing more to substantiate their positions other than emotion and an insistence that they (very occasionally, if that much) used our particular private property without our permission which somehow translates to me losing my entire private property right of exclusion which is basically the most important right in my opinion for anybody, anywhere, who owns private property.

Does this make me angry? I would ask the same of you. But then you don't own beach front property.

And you haven't had to spend $50,000 to fight and prevail against the county in the Florida State Supreme Court like we already have had to do because of a suit brought against us by Walton County and the BCC that shouldn't have occurred in the first place for an attempted "land rights grab". And they probably pissed way more than that amount away of taxpayer dollars.

And now the county is doing the same thing to us, yet again.

So I know the smell of a fresh BS pie, especially when the county is doing the baking - past and present. Me, angry? That would be somewhat understandable, right? Have I lost all respect for the way the BCC has pandered to their "constituents" and "favored developers", with little to no respect for the law or even their own ordinances? You would definitely be barking up the right tree if you answered yes.

I'd encourage you to jump on the Lounge as that is where your "political BS pie" theories should reside. I'm trying to stay focused on CU in this thread.

 

[mputnal]

I do understand your position about property rights but in my opinion this is not about property rights. I respect your disagreement with CU but this is an emotional issue. Since you live on the beach and witness the problems of overcrowding I understand your perspective will be different than the rest of us. I am sure it is difficult for you to understand why The People think BPO's should share the beach. Emotions are high on both sides. So, do we let these power brokers come in and stoke the emotional fires or should we try to use a more reasonable approach to solving this issue? If you want peace then you are not helping. If you want nothing to do with peace and only want your power to exclude people from the beach then I would have to say that you will probably get your wish. The People are angry because they have lost resources, lost economic freedom (big business has all the power) and now they are being told to get off my beach. The reason I know these power brokers are not from here is because they only care about the power of politics NOT The People

I think this lawsuit will not take away your property rights even if BPO's lose in court because this is not about property rights. It is about THE BEACH. I believe the Judge will keep the scope of the ruling limited to THE BEACH. I don't think it will be about customary use either. To keep the beaches open to the public it will likely come down to public easement and does the county have the authority to give the public easement along the entire beach. If you want to believe that the Constitution will protect you from public easement or eminent domain you would be wrong. If this is only about money from a "taking" for you then just say you want The People to pay you for use of the beach. If you just want to win your argument then just say you only care about winning arguments. All this other stuff about property rights is getting old.

So you see these power brokers and you are not helping anything but make people angry by spreading fear and anger that The People want to take away your property rights. I have not talked to anyone and have not read anything in this thread from any CU supporter that wants you to lose your property rights. They just want to go to the beach and enjoy the beach. Please just stop already about the loss of property rights. Be honest and tell us that you like just like winning arguments, hate the county government, want money more than community good will and/or really don't care a rat's aspirin bottle about your inland neighbors.

If it were just about the local government then why would you not run for an office or support a candidate that ONLY represents you. Democracy does not work the way you would like it. We elect representatives meaning that they are suppose to represent the majority. That is the reason why the power brokers are here to increase their power and sway the voters because they are here to protect our property rights. Thus the BS pie. I really don't know if you are a baker or a consumer of the BS pie. Again and again the thread was never about community and who is to blame for crowded beaches.

 

[kayti elliott]

How inane. Your use of "elite" as a dirty word reveals your washed brain.

All beaches everywhere should be public - New England, Thailand, Palm Beach, Majorca and South Walton. Does that make me a socialist?

If you feel that way, why don't you and the other CU activists organize a movement in New England and other places? If CU applies here, it applies everywhere. And at least one of you could write it off as a business trip. Martha's Vineyard would be a great place for a new upscale restaurant.

 

[Stone Cold J]

I do understand your position about property rights but in my opinion this is not about property rights.

mputnal, the lawsuit by the BCC against the Walton County Property owners is PRIMARILY about PROPERTY RIGHTS. The BCC wants to remove the Property Right to Exclude People from Private Property which means unlimited use by unlimited people to day camp on private property against the will of the property owner with zero compensation. That is why it is in court. This is not about "sharing". It is about physical and financial control of a limited resource that the BCC wants to TAKE without compensation. That is why the county has already spent $1MM and the defense has collectively spent the same or more.

The People (all People) can go to a county park (Public Beach) or State Park (if they pay a fee or have the TDC pay it for them) or rent a house on the beach that has private property, or purchase in a neighborhood that has common beach front private property or even buy a beach front home themselves. Or they can get permission from a home owner to use their private property to day camp (chairs/umbrellas). Note that ANYONE and EVERYONE can walk the entire 26 miles of shore line, fish, swim, build sandcastles, take family pictures, and surf. That portion is not being contested. What they don't have is unlimited rights to day camp on any property against the will of the property owner, including property owned by the Military or State of Florida. Note the BCC excluded property owned by the State or Military in the lawsuit because the county has not authority over State or Federal land, including density management. To day camp or visit a State Park a person can buy a Day Pass or an Annual Pass for $120 which allows them and upto 8 people to a State Park and private access to the beach. The parks CONTROL DENSITY for the infrastructure available. For example, once Topsail Hill Preserve State Park reach 100 automobiles, THEY CLOSE THE PARK TO NEW VISITORS. If you figure 6 people per car, that is a MAX density of 600 people at Topsail State Preserve! The county wants to TAKE property rights from private owners and turn it into a free for all with unlimited density control.

I assume the reason you did not answer the questions earlier is because they are all true and you don't want to admit it. Yes a Judge may decide to remove property rights from a minority group of people (BFO's), and yes you may feel that all beaches should be public and removed from private ownership, and yes they may use Eminent Domain to purchase all beach front, but in the meantime, there are still laws and Florida Property Rights which are posted on the Walton County Web Site.

Care to try again on the questions? I asked 6 people, including a self proclaimed Socialist from out of state who was not familiar the with lawsuit, and everyone answered True. That being said, some people said the State should just buy all the beach and turn into a massive state park (would improve changes of protecting the unique ecosystem). Most people have said the county is not capable of managing or controlling the beach but the State might be if it was all a State Park.